Crit range Nerf incoming!

[Kompera_Oberon]

So sorry to harp on you personally, but do you understand what 12-15% loss in DPS means? Do you understand how badly this effects content in EE? People throw around %'s without actually understanding what it means.

Maybe if people start using numbers (DPS) instead of %'s, people will understand the gravity of the problem.

That's a good idea. Here's some numbers that might be easier to understand: One player in a group of six.

If everyone loses ~12-15% DPs then it's like running with 5 players instead of 6.

[Ellihor]

No, they didn't. Staffs need the better crit profile to make them worth using. If they have the same crit profile as any other weapon, the other weapon is clearly superior.

It is by desing. It is intended to be what it is. Weapons are not intended to be equal. If that was true khopeshes should not exist to start with. also, there is:

Pure Acrobats still get +20% atk speed, +20% base doublestrike, and Quick Strike (effectively another +16.7% doublestrike) compared to regular 2H weapons. Now that Pulverizer stacks w/Staff Spec, an LD Acro using crafted staves will still have 17-20/x3 crit profile; Stoat Oak is 17-20/x4. Despite the crit nerf to some of the named staves (inc. my Sireth), I'm not worried about Acrobat DPS.

While EVERYONE is taking a nerf, staff users (except that couple named that has improved threat) are untouched, so they have been relatively buffed.

[Ellihor]

So sorry to harp on you personally, but do you understand what 12-15% loss in DPS means? Do you understand how badly this effects content in EE? People throw around %'s without actually understanding what it means.

Maybe if people start using numbers (DPS) instead of %'s, people will understand the gravity of the problem.

I know you were directing this to Thrudh but I feel like this needss response.

You have to understand that almost everyone are gtting reduced damage form crits, not only the users of those weapons. Ok, some more and some less. But I have to disagree, 15% DPS loss is not a bad thing. This damage should not be there to start with: when they buffed paladins they already said IC was not supposed to double holy sword bonus. All other revamp after paladin follows the same line. Divine crusader critical also goes with that. Think like we are not loosing the daage we have, but just that we had an extra bonus damage and it is now ending. We all know the damage of players has gone to the roof in the course of the last 12 months. It was needed. Specially crit wise, it was just out of control.

It is you who are not understanding the gravity of the problem, by trying to make it look like it is the end of the world. Actually, this changes to crits means very litlle. We all know this would come some day, since when they revamped paladins. I am suprised it took so long.

[kyostal]

As I have already sent a message to Robai, his math regarding the old vs new was is horribly misleading. Improved Crit was never meant to double the range provided by enhancments/feats/spells/whatever like it currently does. The current way range is calculated is as such:

(Base Profile + Enh + Spell + ED) x IC = Active Crit range


The proper new way IC should be dealt with is as such:

(Base Profile x IC) + Enh + Spell + ED = Active Crit range

Keep the feat exactly as it is already at double the range, but make it apply first, before anything/everything else, and apply only to the base of the weapon.

This will keep the Expanded crit range weapons functions as they always have, while keeping IC from affecting the spells/enhanments/ED buffs.

[Robai]

As I have already sent a message to Robai, his math regarding the old vs new was is horribly misleading. Improved Crit was never meant to double the range provided by enhancments/feats/spells/whatever like it currently does. The current way range is calculated is as such:

(Base Profile + Enh + Spell + ED) x IC = Active Crit range


The proper new way IC should be dealt with is as such:

(Base Profile x IC) + Enh + Spell + ED = Active Crit range

Keep the feat exactly as it is already at double the range, but make it apply first, before anything/everything else, and apply only to the base of the weapon.

This will keep the Expanded crit range weapons functions as they always have, while keeping IC from affecting the spells/enhanments/ED buffs.

Lol, ok, I have sent you this reply:

Yes, the nerf is not big for most weapons, but it was big for some named weapons.
This was especially a very big nerf to my Acrobat who has Sireth (as you can see it from the first table).
This 'new' equation you speak of is already in the table Just look at the second table.

I'm happy that Severlin understood the situation and will actually adjust base crit ranges for items with increased base ranges (so that they won't get double nerf).

[unbongwah]

While EVERYONE is taking a nerf, staff users (except that couple named that has improved threat) are untouched, so they have been relatively buffed.

Even if we're talking about staves with regular crit ranges, with the loss of stacking crit range bonuses, Acrobats have been nerfed as well - under certain circumstances, at least:

Heroic levels:

• Current: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec (or Holy Sword) -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt
• New: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 18-20/x3 IC:Blunt = net loss of 2 effective hits or ~7.4% DPS

Divine Crusader:

• Current: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 18-20/x3 Celestial Champion -> 15-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 15-18/x3 19-20/x4 (Overwhelming Crit)
• New: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 18-20/x3 Celestial Champion -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x4 (OC) = net loss of 4 effective hits or ~14.1% DPS

Legendary Dreadnought:

• Current: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+Devastating Crit)
• New: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 18-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+Devastating Crit) = no change

So LD staff builds (using non-named staves) will be unaffected by the changes; but under all other circumstances, we'll be losing ~7-14% critable DPS over current live. [This doesn't affect sneak atks, though, so the overall % DPS loss will be less.] As I've said elsewhere, a "balance" change which keeps LD DPS the same but nerfs DC (which already lags behind LD) is not really an improvement, IMHO.

Naturally, this might change if Turbine decides to buff Acrobat to compensate; but so far I haven't seen what if anything they'll be changing in the PrEs.

[kyostal]

Even if we're talking about staves with regular crit ranges, with the loss of stacking crit range bonuses, Acrobats have been nerfed as well - under certain circumstances, at least:

Heroic levels:

• Current: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec (or Holy Sword) -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt
• New: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 18-20/x3 IC:Blunt = net loss of 2 effective hits or ~7.4% DPS

Divine Crusader:

• Current: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 18-20/x3 Celestial Champion -> 15-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 15-18/x3 19-20/x4 (Overwhelming Crit)
• New: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 18-20/x3 Celestial Champion -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x4 (OC) = net loss of 4 effective hits or ~14.1% DPS

Legendary Dreadnought:

• Current: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+Devastating Crit)
• New: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 18-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+Devastating Crit) = no change

So LD staff builds (using non-named staves) will be unaffected by the changes; but under all other circumstances, we'll be losing ~7-14% critable DPS over current live. [This doesn't affect sneak atks, though, so the overall % DPS loss will be less.] As I've said elsewhere, a "balance" change which keeps LD DPS the same but nerfs DC (which already lags behind LD) is not really an improvement, IMHO.

Naturally, this might change if Turbine decides to buff Acrobat to compensate; but so far I haven't seen what if anything they'll be changing in the PrEs.

But you are forgetting, IC was never meant to double the range provided by enhancments/spells/EDs. This is in no way a "nerf" as everyone keeps crying. It is a fix to the way that IC multiplied everything else after being applied to the base range, rather than just affecting the base range.

[Grace_ana]

But you are forgetting, IC was never meant to double the range provided by enhancments/spells/EDs. This is in no way a "nerf" as everyone keeps crying. It is a fix to the way that IC multiplied everything else after being applied to the base range, rather than just affecting the base range.

It WAS a nerf until people pointed out the problem. It was harming named weapons that had an inherent expanded crit range. That's the base weapon's stat, before enh, spells, and EDs.

[kyostal]

It WAS a nerf until people pointed out the problem. It was harming named weapons that had an inherent expanded crit range. That's the base weapon's stat, before enh, spells, and EDs.

Keyword there being WAS. The problem was dealt with, and in fact is now a buff for anyone who does not normally use the weapon.

There is no more reason to cry over what was, as it is no more.

[Grace_ana]

Keyword there being WAS. The problem was dealt with, and in fact is now a buff for anyone who does not normally use the weapon.

There is no more reason to cry over what was, as it is no more.

Yes and no. The issue is that certain builds are tremendously behind in DPS with these changes, compared to other classes. Some builds, like acrobat, depended on the stacking crits to make up for a lackluster base weapon choice. There are builds that were meant to have extras, like assassin and swashbuckler. The devs have already stated that they recognize several of these need to be fixed. People are pointing out the issues.

[kyostal]

Yes and no. The issue is that certain builds are tremendously behind in DPS with these changes, compared to other classes. Some builds, like acrobat, depended on the stacking crits to make up for a lackluster base weapon choice. There are builds that were meant to have extras, like assassin and swashbuckler. The devs have already stated that they recognize several of these need to be fixed. People are pointing out the issues.

Best way to make the game balanced, so everyone stops the cryin: Mandatory Path at birth, with set gear auto-equpped at specific levels so that everyone playing that class, has exactly the same thing. Now remove all but 1 class, at random. - Games balanced.