generating random loot for lvl 28+

[RobbinB]

The current state of random loot is disappointing. And not just because they haven't restored or finished the prefix/suffix list since the ghostbane debacle, but rather because there really isn't any possibility of anything dropping of value compared to named loot. Under the current (ML?) system, I don't believe this is fixable, with named loot being way underpowered compared to named loot. If we tried to remedy this with more powerful prefixes/suffixes, we would just create the opposite problem - loot that is too strong relative to named loot.

My proposed loot generator would work as follows. All loot would have the usual 4 attributes, 3 guaranteed and one possible.
1. The +
2. The prefix
3. The suffix
4. The extra property

Rather than determine a weapons ML based on chest, and then filling 1-3 to reach that power, which creates a uniform power level for that loot, each of the attributes should be rolled on separately based on Gaussian distributions around the middle value. For example, let's say you pull a khopesh from a ML 30 chest.

1. From Gaussian distribution centred at +10 for chest level 30 you could get a "lucky" roll and the weapon is a +15
Chest level would merely affect the chance of this happening, maybe 0.5% for a level 30 chest and 2% for a level 35 chest, for example

2. From full list of random prefixes, "holy" prefix is selected. Lets say there are 10 potential versions of that, eg. holy I, holy II, holy III, holy burst, etc...
Again, Gaussian distribution around the middle prefix for level 30 chests, with probabilities to "better" prefixes as chest level increases.

3. From full list of random suffixes, "evil outsider bane" suffix is selected. Again, let's say there are multiple levels of "bane": lesser bane, bane, greater bane, sovereign bane, epic bane

4. Possibility of an extra weapon attribute eg. metalline, silver, cold iron, etc. For example, probability of one of these for level 30 chest could be 10%, for level 35 chest could be 15%

Anyway, under this system a +15 silver holy X khopesh of epic evil outsider bane would be possible, although statistically incredibly rare, more rare than any named loot. What is important is that the ultimate levels along any prefix or suffix line would have to be selected such that they are of appropriate power. For many of the current prefix and suffix lines I'm not sure that the current "best possibility" is sufficiently powerful - greater bane is an example of that (with even the "epic bane" seen on some named loot perhaps not being powerful enough on a weapon limited to 4 attributes max?).

[Stoner81]

If I have understood your idea correctly then I think is a pretty nifty idea, it could possibly mean getting some insane random loot assuming that you have more luck than a leprechaun with the stars aligned and you put the lottery numbers on too! The obvious flip side is that it would be insanely rare/hard/etc to get something like that.

I would suggest that for option 4 that augments slots would be added too along with possible chances of Masterful/Wondrous Craftsmanship etc.

The big big BIG problem I see though is that it could/would mean the entire loot tables to be updated and/or re-worked which to be honest they are in dire need of thanks to the Great Ghostbaning incident.

Stoner81.

[RobbinB]

I would suggest that for option 4 that augments slots would be added too along with possible chances of Masterful/Wondrous Craftsmanship etc.
Stoner81.

Excellent point. Augment slots and craftsmanship could also be considered 5th and 6th possible attributes rolled on separately. So again, for level 30 loot maybe 10% chance of craftsmanship increasing by 0.5%per chest level. Maybe same for augments with separate roll for augment colour with all colours including green/red/purple included. (But again, let's say for level 30 loot you have only a 10% chance at an augment and then only 1% chance of that augment being purple and 3% chance red. So going back to my example, how about +15 metalline holy X khopesh of epic evil outsider bane, wondrous craftsmanship, purple augment, which has something like a 1 in 100,000 chance of actually dropping).

I did also wonder if maybe there could also be a small chance at a secondary suffix or prefix on each weapon, but I'm just not sure how the item naming would work. (Now we are up to a +15 metalline GREATER MAULING holy X khopesh of epic evil outsider bane, wondrous craftsmanship, purple augment with a 1 in 5 million chance of dropping, woot )

Again, the power of the options available in each prefix or suffix line (including the special lines like mauling, debilitating, etc...) would have to be considered carefully. Imagine getting that 1 in 5 million drop and being like meh, there's still better named loot. Or conversely, having random loot options that come up with high probabilities that are better than most or all named loot.

There was also another suggestion that chests include only one item. I think if this system was put into place (eg. for reaper difficulties) then that would be a good way to go. Single item or large monetary amount per chest. Separate chance for additional named or special items.

[RobbinB]

Would love to hear a dev comment on the 2 different loot-generating "systems" and whether any change has ever been discussed.

System 1: Item is looted from a chest and is assigned an ML related to chest level (believe there is a roll where ML can be lower/higher around the chest level). All the attributes have "values" which have to add up to the item ML. My understanding is this includes augments. The exception to this might be the metal and craftsmanship properties, I'm not sure. This makes powerful but rare loot impossible. For example, if they added +15 to the loot list and you pulled a +15 khopesh then there simply wouldn't be room for additional prefixes/suffixes/augments under the ML system. Now a +15 weapon wouldn't be terrible, but I'm not sure it can compare to the typical +5 to +12 named items that might have 5 or 6 additional damage properties and multiple augments, etc...

(I realize my understanding of the current loot generating system might be wrong. If you know this to be true and can better explain how it works, please do so.)

System 2: Each possible attribute in a weapon is rolled on separately with probability distributions based on chest/item ML. This makes insanely powerful combinations possible but statistically unlikely if the distributions are set "correctly" and the attributes list is extensive and well balanced.

If I were the "Loot Dev" I would personally go with System 2.

[Stoner81]

The only problem I can see is that lootgen could be better than named items but the odds of getting the right combo are mindbendingly mad! Plus all those calcs would that put a huge strain on the server (I assume yes).

Stoner81.

[RobbinB]

The only problem I can see is that lootgen could be better than named items but the odds of getting the right combo are mindbendingly mad!
Stoner81.

Well, that's the entire premise of my post. A good random system would have the possibility of better-than-named loot (reason to open the chest) at a very low probability (so for the most part named loot keeps its' place). The current system doesn't do this at all.

Plus all those calcs would that put a huge strain on the server (I assume yes).
Stoner81.

I think that's where a 1-item-per-chest change to loot would be really helpful.

[Stoner81]

Valid points

Stoner81.

[bloodnose13]

thats a realy good idea, it would help to offset the overabundance of named loot, only thing i would say is that it should be done for all levels of loot.

additional effects that i would suggest to be added to the rolls are ml lowering masterful craftsmanship like in crafting system, and talking about crafting, i think that it could be done alongside with revamp of cannith crafting.

sad truth about good random gear found in chests is that its way too often a "too late" gear, whati mean that those good combinations of efffects on the item are too high ml, so what i would suggest is that every effect on ramdom items to be treated separately when it comes to ML of item rather than cumulatively, that would lower the chances of seeing a +6 stat items at lvl 28 where we can get easly enough items with +10, problem is that those items with +10 stats on them, usualy have other much weaker effects on them aswell that are there to compensate for how high level +10 is. item ML would become something tha is a maximum value of each of effects on item (not saying thatall effects on item should be always the ML level, randomness of it should be preseerved) rather than total value of all effects calculated together.

[PsychoBlonde]

Mm, I'd rather see chances for multiple suffixes or prefixes, bigger -ML properties.

I'd also like to see an "epic crafting" system where instead of applying bonuses to a deconstructed item, you can pay a ton of essences to SWITCH a bonus to another similar bonus. (So, you could switch +Dex to +Con, for instance, or +Dodge to +Natural Armor, or +Spellcraft to +Spot) Supposedly they're planning on re-working Cannith Crafting soonish anyway. To me, this would be the superior way to do high-level Cannith crafting.

I think they also need to update augments a bit. Back when Gianthold came out, the best items were +8, and +7 augments were available. Now the best loot is +12 and we only have +8 augments. This basically means you have little choice but to wear named loot in order to get enough of the high bonuses.

It'd also be nice if it went back to the days when random loot could have HIGHER bonuses than named items. Named items should not BOTH have MORE and HIGHER bonuses than lootgen. It should be one or the other--named loot consolidates a ton of slots, but the bennies aren't The Best Possible. Lootgen has The Best Possible Bennies, but you get fewer per slot. Much more interesting tradeoff, there.