Ranger: Arcane Archer Changes (Early Autumn Edition)

[dunklezhan]

Its each of paralyzing, terror, banishing or smiting arrows that gives +1 enchantment so +4 total.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5700265

Cheers - had read the post, and missed that line.

[Aletys]

1. Getting everything shouldn't be easy. Like many casters, it's difficult to maximize Spell Power and DCs on the same character. You can make a good effort. Arcane Archers also get very strong very-low-resource physical ranged damage on top of that. Yes, it may be hard to maximize your Arcane Archer's physical ranged damage, magical damage, and DCs. Since that's more than nearly any other class or build gets, it should be terrifically difficult.
   
   1. Does this mean you are going to be forced to spec for Wisdom? Well, if you don't, your DCs are probably higher than before. Paralyzing Arrow DC on live caps out at 26. Just taking Paralyzing Arrows itself puts you at 21, with a 10 Wisdom. Putting in some effort towards Wisdom and Enchantment DCs (which applies to Enchantment spells in addition to these four stances) can help a lot.
   2. We absolutely expect some players may mostly ignore Paralyzing Arrows much of the time and focus on Elemental damage. That's fine and not a bad thing, because it means not all AAs look the same.
   
   
2. We expect some players to try to build for all three of Physical Ranged, Magical Ranged, and DCs. That's going to be a hard build to make. Consider it a challenge. We're not going out of our way to make it easy for you. (Dexterity is probably the worst choice for the DC-driver stat for this reason, though Constitution is close.)
3. This enables a DC-based build for Arcane Archers that never existed, particular for epic. The DC formula is identical to what a level 10 (Ranger) spell would be. With a bow it's trickier, but you can probably still get pretty close to the same caster-stat and Enchantment DCs as a Sorc or Wizard (roughly). While there may yet be problems to solve with Epic DCs and monster saves, we think this is an excellent "target" to aim for with Arcane Archer DCs.
4. Movement speed is probably already fine for Arcane Archers. I'm worried I'm being too generous giving a no-save -10% movement speed to AAs!

Let's re-state our stance on monkchers:

1. Monkchers should be a viable top-tier ranged DPS build.
2. Non-monkchers should also be viable top-tier ranged DPS builds.

In particular, I personally frequently bring up this goal (for instance, when discussing 10k and Manyshot): The best build ranged should not require monk levels.

Well, right now the real winners in your approach are Monkchers. Their DC's will be at least 3-5 higher than any pure AA simply because their primary stat is Wisdom. They will not have to make any hard choices. My swashbuckler bard does not have to make these kind of choices ... her primary stat is Charisma, she gets Charisma to damage, and her crowd control DC's are based on Charisma. My wizard can get there as well on her CC, because the DC's for her spells are based on her primary stat.

You say that "The best build ranged should not require monk levels", yet that is exactly what will happen with this approach.

[Grailhawk]

Simple. Because it's crowd control, & though difficult to spec for in EE, I can get my wizard's CC spells to land 90% of the time. With my bard it's even easier. Why? Because her DC's are based on her primary stat, Intelligence, not on a secondary stat. My swashbuckler bard's damage stat is also her primary stat (Charisma). So why should it to be different for an archer?

Right now, the big winners in this approach are not AA's, but rather Monkchers. A Monkcher's DC's are going to easily be 3-5 DC's higher than any AA's. Why, because Wisdom is their primary stat. And they won't have to give up anything to achieve it.

If it's taking tier 5's in AA it's an AA if it has 12 levels of Ranger it's a Ranger.

I'll give that if it has 12 monk levels it's not a Ranger.

But if a 12 monk takes tier 5's in AA it's an AA even if it's not a elf with the core 12+ though that is an option.


There is a lot of irrational hate for monkchers in this thread I get wanting pure Ranger to be competitive. For dps I think pure is ahead for CC I think monkchers is edgeing out pure I'm OK with that.

The nerfs to 10k stars and manyshot are going to make a AA Stalker better dps then a monkcher.

[Aletys]

If it's taking tier 5's in AA it's an AA if it has 12 levels of Ranger it's a Ranger.

I'll give that if it has 12 monk levels it's not a Ranger.

But if a 12 monk takes tier 5's in AA it's an AA even if it's not a elf with the core 12+ though that is an option.


There is a lot of irrational hate for monkchers in this thread I get wanting pure Ranger to be competitive. For dps I think pure is ahead for CC I think monkchers is edgeing out pure I'm OK with that.

The nerfs to 10k stars and manyshot are going to make a AA Stalker better dps then a monkcher.

You're not seeing "hate", you're seeing frustration that no matter what those of us who actually run AA's say, the multi-classers (monkchers in particular) still come out ahead on the AA class. And, nerfing manyshot doesn't help us any, it just keeps the devs from having to step up to the plate to make the hard decision to do what should have been done to begin with, which is put 10K & manyshot on the same timer. So, no matter what happens, pure AA's still lose, and are still behind the curve. The only ones gaining with this Wisdom DC fiasco are those who's primary stat is Wisdom. Pure AA's are losing. Again.

[Hipparan]

I actually like the idea of having wisdom-based DCs for Arcane Archer because that's how ranger spells work, but I would like to make a proposal: adding an ability for adding wisdom to damage for bows. This would also mean that the level 20 core ability should give +2 dexterity and +2 wisdom, but there is a good reason for this. For one, Zen Archery allows for using wisdom for the attack bonus for bows, and wisdom for damage would help make this a little more usable. Also, the path of the Silver Flame for Paladins, Clerics, and Favored Souls is pretty much useless as the abilities aren't very good and I know that people complain about favored weapons for Warpriests. By adding wisdom to damage for bows in the Arcane Archer tree, elf and half-elf Clerics and Favored souls/Cleric or Favored soul and Ranger multiclassed characters will have a much more useful path with the Silver Flame, and help make that particular crowd happier (less work for a Favored Soul pass as well).

In short, wisdom to damage would help make the wisdom-based DCs much more attractive for rangers, and possibly even introduce wisdom build rangers. In addition, this would give a big boost to Clerics and Favored Souls who are followers of the Silver Flame, especially elves and half-elves.

I see a lot of posting about wisdom-based Monkchers that are using Ten Thousand Stars. How might wisdom to damage affect the damage output that those particular builds would be seeing?

[Qhualor]

I don't have a problem with Monkchers coming out ahead of AAs as long as they are debated close in relative damage. For that matter, same goes for Kensei archers, Mechanics or any ranged focused build. I've always believed that a ranger should be powerful with its versatility, but not top dog whether it be focused on ranged or TWF. I just don't think one or two builds should be obviously better than the other builds. There are other aspects of these builds that can pull ahead of the other in situations when not just using ranged combat as a comparison. This is why I think it's important to not just focus on overall dps, but to put some effort into keeping the uniqueness of classes.

[Grailhawk]

You're not seeing "hate", you're seeing frustration that no matter what those of us who actually run AA's say, the multi-classers (monkchers in particular) still come out ahead on the AA class. And, nerfing manyshot doesn't help us any, it just keeps the devs from having to step up to the plate to make the hard decision to do what should have been done to begin with, which is put 10K & manyshot on the same timer. So, no matter what happens, pure AA's still lose, and are still behind the curve. The only ones gaining with this Wisdom DC fiasco are those who's primary stat is Wisdom. Pure AA's are losing. Again.

Do you want to kill things faster with DPS play a pure Ranger AA.

Do you want to be a CC Archer play a monkcher, or a pure Ranger who won't be as good at cc but will do more damage. Crit multiplier is a big deal most monkchers won't have that and a lot of the current monkchers builds won't even have crit threat from Stalker.

12/6/2 Ranger /Monk/XX is a Ranger it won't beat a 20 Ranger for damage because of the nerf and its likely now the best monkchers build in the game 14/6 Paladin/Monk might be competitive but that gives up Stalker all round Monkchers are taking some hits with these changes, and Rangers are getting the better end of the deal.

I'm not seeing how pure Ranger AA lose I actually see a win, as they now do more damage, and have aCC option they didn't have before.

[Enoach]

I've been thinking more about this on the DC aspect.

I'm an AA user but without the Ranger Levels using Elf to access

My first build was 8/6/6 Ftr/Mnk/Wiz

I started with a Strength build. I did get a decent strength but sacrificed to much with Dexterity and Wisdom which kept 10K stars and my defense lower then I wanted.

I ER'd and this time went Wisdom based. still with the 8/6/6. With just the 6 Monk levels and access Master Stances I had a 54 Wisdom. Zen Archery made to-hit a non-issue.

I redid this with a 12/8 Ftr/Wiz and went Dexterity focus with Grace. Doing this improved my build for me.

I like that they want to up the DCs and even bring in Enchantment focus to help out. I'm just concerned that going Wisdom as the only option would limit AA builds.

I am still interested on how this will shake out for those of us AA's that do come by this by the Elf Tree.

[Severlin]

Good feedback so far. We are still digesting and discussing.

We are considering a change to let Doubleshot wrap; that is once Doubleshot exceeds 100% it would start to have a chance to produce a third attack. Then Doubleshot wouldn't be wasted during high buffs.

The biggest concern is actually Doublestrike, as we wouldn't be able to make the same change to Doublestrike and we would expect players to ask for that if we changed Doubleshot.

Sev~

[Delacroix21]

Good feedback so far. We are still digesting and discussing.

We are considering a change to let Doubleshot wrap; that is once Doubleshot exceeds 100% it would start to have a chance to produce a third attack. Then Doubleshot wouldn't be wasted during high buffs.

The biggest concern is actually Doublestrike, as we wouldn't be able to make the same change to Doublestrike and we would expect players to ask for that if we changed Doubleshot.

Sev~

That would be a nice change, as i see it being too easy to go over 100 double shot which feels like a waste if there is a cap.


As for double strike I don't think it will be an issue as very few builds/boosts will get you over 100%, and even then you will be barely over vs a pure ranger using manyshot having 168% double shot (or more if tensored) which would be a much more noticeable waste of double shot.

[Arlathen]

Good feedback so far. We are still digesting and discussing.

We are considering a change to let Doubleshot wrap; that is once Doubleshot exceeds 100% it would start to have a chance to produce a third attack. Then Doubleshot wouldn't be wasted during high buffs.

The biggest concern is actually Doublestrike, as we wouldn't be able to make the same change to Doublestrike and we would expect players to ask for that if we changed Doubleshot.

Sev~

This is a nice idea, but my first reaction is it still doesn't solve the 'Pure Ranger/Archer' vs. Monkcher problem, i.e lack of RoF compared to having both Manyshot and 10K Stars.

Secondly, it doesn't change the fact that Melee-orientated Rangers who used to unload Manyshots are also getting the shaft.

There's a better way of doing this, I'm sure of it, but its one of those processes that just needs time, energy, effort and a lot of patience.

[Apollos713]

Good feedback so far. We are still digesting and discussing.

We are considering a change to let Doubleshot wrap; that is once Doubleshot exceeds 100% it would start to have a chance to produce a third attack. Then Doubleshot wouldn't be wasted during high buffs.

The biggest concern is actually Doublestrike, as we wouldn't be able to make the same change to Doublestrike and we would expect players to ask for that if we changed Doubleshot.

Sev~

Thanks for reading the feedback and being involved in the discussion. I'm fine with Doubleshot and Doublestrike being different. Manyshot is a special ability and I think it's worth the exception.

[FestusHood]

Do you want to kill things faster with DPS play a pure Ranger AA.

Do you want to be a CC Archer play a monkcher, or a pure Ranger who won't be as good at cc but will do more damage. Crit multiplier is a big deal most monkchers won't have that and a lot of the current monkchers builds won't even have crit threat from Stalker.

12/6/2 Ranger /Monk/XX is a Ranger it won't beat a 20 Ranger for damage because of the nerf and its likely now the best monkchers build in the game 14/6 Paladin/Monk might be competitive but that gives up Stalker all round Monkchers are taking some hits with these changes, and Rangers are getting the better end of the deal.

I'm not seeing how pure Ranger AA lose I actually see a win, as they now do more damage, and have aCC option they didn't have before.

So you are saying that the things that a monkcher can't get, mostly stuff from the deepwood stalker tree, is enough to offset 10k stars? This is assuming that the changes to manyshot and 10k stars goes through as detailed. That is what i am hoping for, that being a monkless archer is a viable choice. Next, i am of course concerned that archers in general stack up to other ranged combat styles, and other builds in general.

On the other hand, i would prefer they not make these changes to how manyshot and 10k work. I'll have to agree with others that it does sound very dull. Archers have pretty much always been bursty, and many people like them that way, including me. I do want their downtime dps to be increased, that's the main problem with them, but not at the expense of their burstiness. I think i just paraphrased somebody from an earlier post, but them's my own words, honest.

As far as i can tell, all other things equal, isn't 10k stars actually superior to manyshot assuming a character invests enough wisdom? It's less bursty, but due to having a much higher uptime it seems that it would lead to a significantly higher rate of fire over time. If they didn't make the proposed changes and instead just made the two abilities mutually exclusive, then players who preferred more burst could use manyshot, and ones who wanted their dps more spread out could use 10k.

I know they are worried about upsetting dedicated monkcher players if they were to somehow make them obsolete, but i think there is a chance that making these sweeping changes to how the signature archer abilities work could upset even more people.

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

Good feedback so far. We are still digesting and discussing.

We are considering a change to let Doubleshot wrap; that is once Doubleshot exceeds 100% it would start to have a chance to produce a third attack. Then Doubleshot wouldn't be wasted during high buffs.

The biggest concern is actually Doublestrike, as we wouldn't be able to make the same change to Doublestrike and we would expect players to ask for that if we changed Doubleshot.

Sev~

Doubleshot should wrap

Doublestrike should eventually wrap but making it wrap right now may be more work...

[fangblackhawk]

Here's some changes we'd like to make to Arcane Archer sooner rather than later. We expect we may come back to Arcane Archer in the not-distant future to address additional issues we'd like to get to. We consider this a strong basis for improvement in some of the primary Arcane Archer features. There are some specific abilities that we consider underperforming that we want to address but may not have time to get in very soon¹.

---

Arcane Archer

• Action Boosts reduced to 1 AP per rank
• DC Based Arrow Stances: Includes Terror, Paralyzing, Banishing, and Smiting Arrows:
  
  • Each becomes one rank, 2 AP.
  • Each has a saving throw of 20 + Wisdom Modifier + Enchantment Spell Bonuses
  • Each enhancement taken grants +1 DC with Enchantment Spells.
  • Paralyze and Terror become short durations, but no additional save after the initial save. Short in this case is about 6 seconds. If you keep shooting one target, it can continue to be Paralyzed or Terrored. If you can keep a line going for Improved Precise Shot, you can keep this going on multiple enemies. To control maximum enemies, you'll need to frequently switch targets.
  • Paralyzing Arrows: On save, chance to apply 3 seconds of -10% Movement and Attack speed.
  • Smiting Arrows gains a chance to apply Deconstructed (slows attack speed, reduces fortification by 25%, and inflicts a 25% penalty to Repair healing)
  • Banishing Arrows gains chance to inflict Pull of Reality¹ on each hit.
    
    • Pull of Reality¹: -1 PRR, -1 MRR. Stacks up to 25 times. 5 stacks fade away every 3 seconds (if no new stacks were added).
  
  
• Elemental Arrows (Corrosive, Flaming, Frost, Shock)
  
  • Increase base damage to 1d8.
  • Damage scales with Spell Power. Exact amount TBD.
  • Each additional Elemental Arrows increases damage by +1 die.
  • Each enhancement tier from 2-5 has a new multiple choice option, "Elemental Damage", that increases damage by +2 dice (for a maximum of 7 dice if you select only one damage type).
  • Tier 5 Elemental Arrow damage (Improved) also scales with Spell Power.
  • Force Arrows scales number of dice with Elemental Arrows, and also scales with spellpower
  
  
• Shadow Arrows (Core, 18 levels of Ranger):
  
  • Gains: "Passive: Equipped bows gain +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier"
  
  
• Mystical Archer (Core, 20 levels of Ranger):
  
  • Dexterity bonus increased to +4
  
  
• Slaying Arrow:
  
  • Depending on DPS testing, this may be decreased or increased in power. Yes, if we've injected too much power into Arcane Archer, this is where we will probably pull back on some of it. We don't expect to fundamentally change the design of this ability, but it's not healthy or good design for so much of the power of one enhancement tree or build to be in a single ability like this. (And yes, we understand just how powerful and vital it is for certain builds, but that's part of the problem.)

---

This accomplishes a few goals:

1. DC based abilities² have long been a bane of Arcane Archers. They were often extremely strong when obtained, but had no way at all to scale up towards higher levels, which has only gotten worse over time and higher levels. Reworking these abilities was a key feature we wanted to get to sooner rather than later. This has meant we've wanted to adjust how some of those abilities work as well, and in particular wanted Smiting and Banishing Arrows to feel more impactful on attacks that were not criticals (while not simply adding damage).
2. Elemental Arrows were simply too weak, and also didn't scale into Epic levels. These changes should make them feel pretty powerful in heroic while also having some good options to scale into Epic. The addition of multiple choice options gives players some meaningful choices on how to progress.
3. Those two changes, especially focusing on Spell DCs and Spell Power, help with the lore and flavor of Arcane Archer as well. While not strictly necessary for gameplay, we like to support this when we can. It also gives us a means of differentiating Arcane Archer from other potential bow users. We know this isn't a large and fully realized group of build choices, but we certainly want that open as a development path, and hopefully they won't look all that similar when we get there. Fighters focusing on bows should be viable, for instance, and wouldn't be likely to invest heavily in Spell Power or Enchantment DCs.
4. Some of the other changes are really quality of life, keeping up with the Joneses, and things we can quickly and easily do.

Again, we want to say that we don't think this is a perfect or even a complete pass for Arcane Archer. As an example, it pains us to leave Dispelling and Shattermantle shot as-is, and we've been discussing some other possibilities with the Player's Council. Those abilities really need a larger redesign - potentially touching on things like a redesign of Dispels across DDO, for instance, which we just don't have time for right now. But some of us having been pushing to get some of this came out sooner rather than later!

This is, of course, a design-in-progress, subject to change from testing, math, deep insights of wisdom, a million kobolds with typewriters, or designers unscrupulously trying to fit a bit more improvement in when they should probably get on with Level 30 work.



Thanks for your thoughts and feedback, and may you always be fighting in the shade!

---

Footnotes, Vargouille? That's so outdated. Do you think you're in the module years?

1. (TM)

2. I'm going to recommend that when you fight in other planes, some enemy monsters should inflict Pull of Reality on player characters...

3. Developer Trivia: Some of the choices here in particular relate to technical hurdles that we've spent some time investigating working around but are probably not worth (even more) time. If you look carefully across DDO, you may note a relative lack of saving throws on most player abilities which are triggered passively. (Shiradi's Nerve Venom, for instance, was always intended to have a saving throw... it just didn't actually work, so got redesigned some at the last minute!) It's not that it's 100% impossible to do some of this kind of thing, but the amount of extra work is staggering (compared to even moderately simple abilities, can take 20-40 times as long to create). Even getting the saving throws we do have here is a bunch of extra work that doesn't really help anywhere else in the game, but at least applies to four abilities. This is also part of why they all use Enchantment Spell DC bonuses, rather than Terror Arrows using Necro... err, I mean, you are clearly enchanting your arrows in any case. So it's a lore reason! That sounds better, right? And therefore part of the flavor is that Arcane Archers specialize in Enchantment. It all comes together, somehow. (No, we're not going to base monster saves assuming you have 4 levels of Arcane Archer to get better Enchantment DCs... but if some Elf Wizard wants to go for it, well, we love somewhat crazy builds.)

---

^{P.S. I probably ramble on too much even when I don't give a Trivia warning. Maybe I shouldn't use that. Maybe I shouldn't post hours after everyone else has gone home and no one can stop me. Bwahahahaha!}

i see my first thoughts to these changes are already a foot note (sweet) because i already had a life of 2 rouge 18 wizzy, Elf arcane archer/archmage with shiradi ed life..... it rocked (especially the get mana back bug sigh lol) and now i am trying to do maths in my head for the same thing maybe with new enchant dc boosts and spell power scalling (is nice the warlock dilly going with spell power when casting but the melle dmg is kinda low), and harper, then the ek imbues stacked with AA imbues last i had checked..... pew pew pew nuke pew lol..... oh and mechanic no thats to much ap

....

-are force arrows going to scale with spell power aswell? i would be ok with them only scaling at half what the elemental ones do as the dmg effects most all things

-are you going to be adding ranged power to the cores and a good bit to the cap for being pure? (havent looked at ranger trees since ranged power was added)

-an issue i see is the monkchur wise archer being tons of dps and now better stances with a 20+ wisdom mod+ enchant mod ....with out calculating all the feat requirements and build points and other what not..... my question is, is it wise to have these based on wisdom?

[patang01]

Good feedback so far. We are still digesting and discussing.

We are considering a change to let Doubleshot wrap; that is once Doubleshot exceeds 100% it would start to have a chance to produce a third attack. Then Doubleshot wouldn't be wasted during high buffs.

The biggest concern is actually Doublestrike, as we wouldn't be able to make the same change to Doublestrike and we would expect players to ask for that if we changed Doubleshot.

Sev~

Unless you add a manycut feat

[Faltout]

Do you want to kill things faster with DPS play a pure Ranger AA.

Do you want to be a CC Archer play a monkcher, or a pure Ranger who won't be as good at cc but will do more damage. Crit multiplier is a big deal most monkchers won't have that and a lot of the current monkchers builds won't even have crit threat from Stalker.

12/6/2 Ranger /Monk/XX is a Ranger it won't beat a 20 Ranger for damage because of the nerf and its likely now the best monkchers build in the game 14/6 Paladin/Monk might be competitive but that gives up Stalker all round Monkchers are taking some hits with these changes, and Rangers are getting the better end of the deal.

I'm not seeing how pure Ranger AA lose I actually see a win, as they now do more damage, and have aCC option they didn't have before.

Totally agree with this approach. Monkchers can have the extra DCs but less damage and rangers can have more damage and less DCs. Both are valid choices. However, to achieve the "rangers have less DPS than a monkcher" you need to make some drastic changes. Either stop 10k stars from working with something other than stars (shurikens), or keep the doubleshot penalty and add a duration reduction down to 20 seconds (as long as manyshot is active) in the AA capstone.(*)

As for those that keep bringing up caster DCs, caster DCs have NOTHING to do with the situation. Arrows don't cost sp and can be spammed in much less time than spells. A will DC of 50 is VIABLE in any EE quest. If archers want to make it work more than 10% of the time, they can drop a few points of damage and get extra DC. It will be a fair tradeoff (1 point of damage for 1 point of DC).

(*) It amazes me that this solution to manyshot/10k stars has not even gotten an acknowledgment from the devs despite having been mentioned in so many threads by different people. Why do they keep ignoring it and go for monstrosities like changing manyshot to oneshot?

[FuzzyDuck81]

Good feedback so far. We are still digesting and discussing.

We are considering a change to let Doubleshot wrap; that is once Doubleshot exceeds 100% it would start to have a chance to produce a third attack. Then Doubleshot wouldn't be wasted during high buffs.

The biggest concern is actually Doublestrike, as we wouldn't be able to make the same change to Doublestrike and we would expect players to ask for that if we changed Doubleshot.

Sev~

If it's added, just a "we investigated expanding this to doublestrike, but engine limitations caused unacceptable locking & lag issues"

[barecm]

Good feedback so far. We are still digesting and discussing.

We are considering a change to let Doubleshot wrap; that is once Doubleshot exceeds 100% it would start to have a chance to produce a third attack. Then Doubleshot wouldn't be wasted during high buffs.

The biggest concern is actually Doublestrike, as we wouldn't be able to make the same change to Doublestrike and we would expect players to ask for that if we changed Doubleshot.

Sev~

This is starting to sound like manyshot should be a stance.... hmmmm... now where have I heard that before....

I am in favor of what is proposed here as long as 100% is reasonably attained. Not saying easily obtained, but if I Have 3 PLs of doubleshot, a +8 item, and take the available enhancements to doubleshot, I should not have to rely on being Divine Crusader to see a standing 100% doubleshot. Being forced into a particular ED just to make a style of combat viable is not a fix to me.

[Severlin]

Either stop 10k stars from working with something other than stars (shurikens), or keep the doubleshot penalty and add a duration reduction down to 20 seconds (as long as manyshot is active) in the AA capstone.(*)

<snip>

(*) It amazes me that this solution to manyshot/10k stars has not even gotten an acknowledgment from the devs despite having been mentioned in so many threads by different people. Why do they keep ignoring it and go for monstrosities like changing manyshot to oneshot?

Those suggestions don't provide solutions for what we are trying to change.

~ Doubleshot should be worth taking for bow users.
~ Reducing the total number of projectiles fired.
~ Still allow for Monk/Ranger hybrids; a shared cooldown just removes this build.

Moving some of the power of bow builds out of Manyshot and into other areas such as enhancements would be a bonus.


As an aside, having 10K Stars work only with shuriken will not take away the build; it will just require a weapon swap to shuriken as part of the attack chain. We don't want to encourage constant weapon swaps as part of ongoing attack chains.

Sev~