Epic 3BC traps in quests

[hp1055cm]

Note: I am not asking for advice on how to complete these quests. My only desire is to see a change in the traps so that they are not as deadly (in Normal difficulty at least) - barring that I have decided they aren't worth the time so I will just not play them anymore. I do not usually have a problem with traps in most other Epic quests, even on higher difficulty.

(3) quests in 3BC epic have deadly traps (even on normal difficulty) and I find it highly annoying. This life (4 past lives/ 2 EPLF) I have a level 26 monk/warlock with evasion and decent saves but that doesn't seem to matter with blade traps in 3BC. I though evasion would help, but it doesn't in 3BC for some reason. I don't get why anyone would find this enjoyable or why they are so deadly even on normal difficulty. It is obvious that the saves have been jacked up for no other reason other than to make them deadly traps. I was running solo, sometimes with a hire, and prefer not use wiki or any other resource to gain knowledge I don't discover on my own for quests that are new to me.



I was unable to complete Prove Your Worth on Normal difficulty. I died on the elevator shaft, could not reach shrine and the hire died trying to get to me. I tried twice before giving up. I was able to navigate the spinning traps on the floor, and usually accept that I am gonna die in the jump before the puzzle, but there doesn't seem to be any way to survive the elevator. (I have completed this quest on my main toon as a rogue splash)

I cannot get past the floor traps in Ghost of a Chance without Dying. Again I reluctantly ran on normal difficulty just for completion but died each time I tried to jump or otherwise get past traps even after I knew the trap was there. I eventually completed by using a hire to raise me on the other side, but even that was frustrating to accomplish.

I have never completed Precious Cargo although I tried several times on normal difficulty again. I was doing okay until I ran into the blade trap in the engine room of the 3rd ship. Didn't know it was there, died almost immediately and unable to resurrect myself. Tried again knowing the trap was there and died trying to jump over it. Very frustrating.

Aside from the traps I was able to handle the quests pretty well. I can handle the content on hard pretty well and run EE sometimes without too much difficulty - just can't get past the traps in these quests.

[Vulkoorex]

Prove Your Worth:
Park your hireling and set to passive before jumping down the shaft. If you fail to navigate the spikes, your soul stone will drop to the bottom. Then call your hireling to you.

Ghost of a Chance:
Same as above. Boots of propulsion, shield rush, or wings can sometimes get you past the floor blades.

Precious Cargo:
You can disable the floor blades by pulling on the 4 levers on the post. But I just use Boots of propulsion to get past it.


Hope that helps.

[Krelar]

If traps are killing you on normal you could try bringing a rogue hireling. All the traps you mentioned as giving you trouble can either be disabled or avoided with a bit of skill. That's sort of the entire point in those quests, especial prove your worth.

[Krelar]

Don't remember the one in the Ghost of the Chance so I would have to test it but I believe it can be avoided by using the Boots of Propulsion as well.

It can be, you can also unlock a level nearby that temporarily disables the trap, or if you have a rogue you can disable it completely.

[Enoach]

3BC is one of the places where traps are actually something you need to worry about.

Prove your Worth Elevator area is tricky.
4 sections 3 blades only 4th is safe and it is random
Keep hire on the elevator, timing is needed as you will need to get on the elevator for hire to give rez. Personally recommend grabbing a Gold Seal Rogue Hire to use in conjunction with the Cleric Hire

Ghost of a Chance.
There is a lever before that hallway that when you pull it, it turns off the hallway trap for a short period of time. It does need to be unlocked - Gold Seal Rogue Hire can also solve this. Use Hireling to pull lever when you are in front of hallway.

Precious Cargo
Pulling the four levers will disable the 4 rows of blades. Additionally, there is a trap box that will disable all 4 rows.

While I understand the frustration with the traps even on Normal, this area is a place I feel Turbine did correctly with traps. The only other alternative it to greatly improve your PRR. If evasion is not avoiding the damage the only other option is to mitigate. Keep in mind you can also stack a large amount of Temporary Hit Points.

[blerkington]

Hi,

Like other people have said in this thread, it's possible to play around the 3BC traps. With a bit of practice the 3BC traps become a non-event even on EE. Once you know how to do them, you can do them on any difficulty.

But they are frustrating when you first encounter them, because they are the first of many recent examples where the basic conventions of the game have changed unexpectedly. Traps which require you to make many saving throws instead of one, have abnormally high DCs to save against them for the difficulty setting, or deliver far more damage than is usual, become much more common in these epic quests. They are very unforgiving first time through, and that seems unfair and immersion-breaking to me.

It seems like the product of a developer team who no longer want builds set up to avoid traps to be able to that. Or maybe just a general admission of defeat with the saving throw system of the game, which they allowed to fall into disrepair through power creep and too many sources of stacking bonuses. Or maybe a preference for a NWO style game, where it's more about being in right place to avoid damage, rather than using core D&D mechanics like saving throws.

Anyway, it's not the end of the world, but I agree that it's a bit tacky. To me it seems like another example of where a PnP DM might be risking a punch in the nose or at least getting some dice thrown at him or her.

Thanks.

[Annex]

The developers oscillate between supporting two modes of play. Some dungeons/modules focus on story, character development, adventure, and immersion. A player can reasonably hope to complete these dungeons/modules the first time through, without death, if she reads dialog, pays attention to clues, and uses problem solving skills to mitigate threats. The second style of dungeon/module more resembles a Super Mario Brothers type game where one suffers repeated 'deaths' until learning the correct path through an area. These dungeons/modules stress meta-game knowledge and demolish any kind of role play immersion.

Based on what I read in these forums, a large number of players seek the second style of play, and so we get modules like Epic Three Barrel Cove. Modules like the Menace of the Underdark Expansion much more favor the first mode of play.

The problem arises when players enter a dungeon/module without knowing which mode of play to expect, and get the opposite of what they want. Constant 'death' breaks immersion for role players trying to carve out a story for their beloved characters, and so they strongly dislike Super Mario style dungeons/modules. The lack of threat in role play dungeons deprives Twitch players the adrenaline highs they seek, leaving them bored.

The developers obviously try to cater to both audiences*, but not in a consistent manner, creating much frustration and putting the two factions of players at odds with one another. This happens in every single multi-player game I try because developers cannot accurately identify player needs, build for different play styles, fence off the areas, and then resist all temptation to tear down the fences.

* I admit to creating a false dichotomy. Many play styles exist, but to remain succinct, I stress two in this discussion.

[Ghond]

This whole game is death by traps. It's getting very boring.

[lyrecono]

I don't want to sound mean but why don't we start by looking what is killing you in normal mode,

What are your saves and what can we do to improve them?
What is your HP and do you need more hp gear?
Do you need advise on where the trap box is? You can buy a lv 24 rogue hire in evening star that should be able to get that trap if you buff it (gh)
Did you try getting a party together, did you ask them how they deal with it?

I haven't checked these quests on epic normal, maybe turbine screwed up on the DC, similar to the hp of the ghost brothers in "GOP".

[JOTMON]

Prove Your Worth:
Park your hireling and set to passive before jumping down the shaft. If you fail to navigate the spikes, your soul stone will drop to the bottom. Then call your hireling to you.

Ghost of a Chance:
Same as above. Boots of propulsion, shield rush, or wings can sometimes get you past the floor blades.

Precious Cargo:
You can disable the floor blades by pulling on the 4 levers on the post. But I just use Boots of propulsion to get past it.


Hope that helps.

^This works.. only summon parked hirelings when you are in a 'safe' spot.

Generally, I work around these in a different way.
-skip 3BC when not on a rogue life.

[hp1055cm]

I don't want to sound mean but why don't we start by looking what is killing you in normal mode,
What are your saves and what can we do to improve them?
What is your HP and do you need more hp gear?
Do you need advise on where the trap box is? You can buy a lv 24 rogue hire in evening star that should be able to get that trap if you buff it (gh)
Did you try getting a party together, did you ask them how they deal with it?

I haven't checked these quests on epic normal, maybe turbine screwed up on the DC, similar to the hp of the ghost brothers in "GOP".

What is killing me is the higher than normal damage from the traps that have very high DCs. My stats are fine, my HP is fine, and my gear is fine - plus I already stated I wasn't looking for this type of advice, so thanks - and I don't want to sound mean but - did you comprehend the original post?
The answer to every complaint/observation about difficulty is not the same old tired response that you have cataloged. Did I try getting a party??? Wow like I never thought of that one! Thanks, that is soooooooo helpful. /S The problem in these (3) specific instances are that the trap saves and damage are significantly out of line with other quests in the game.

I'm not complaining about all traps everywhere and I am not complaining about traps on HARD or ELITE - I am complaining about 3 specific trap locations; each one is a blade trap the springs up from the ground and hits multiple times in succession; Evasion does not help avoid them and they have damage that is unrealistic for a quest on NORMAL difficulty.

[hp1055cm]

3BC is one of the places where traps are actually something you need to worry about.

Prove your Worth Elevator area is tricky.
4 sections 3 blades only 4th is safe and it is random
Keep hire on the elevator, timing is needed as you will need to get on the elevator for hire to give rez. Personally recommend grabbing a Gold Seal Rogue Hire to use in conjunction with the Cleric Hire

Ghost of a Chance.
There is a lever before that hallway that when you pull it, it turns off the hallway trap for a short period of time. It does need to be unlocked - Gold Seal Rogue Hire can also solve this. Use Hireling to pull lever when you are in front of hallway.

Precious Cargo
Pulling the four levers will disable the 4 rows of blades. Additionally, there is a trap box that will disable all 4 rows.

While I understand the frustration with the traps even on Normal, this area is a place I feel Turbine did correctly with traps. The only other alternative it to greatly improve your PRR. If evasion is not avoiding the damage the only other option is to mitigate. Keep in mind you can also stack a large amount of Temporary Hit Points.

This is all good advice, and even better, it is actually helpful. I would still like to see a change in the way the traps are operating but this will help if I decide to do 3BC in a future life. Thanks.

[hp1055cm]

Prove Your Worth:
Park your hireling and set to passive before jumping down the shaft. If you fail to navigate the spikes, your soul stone will drop to the bottom. Then call your hireling to you.
Ghost of a Chance:
Same as above. Boots of propulsion, shield rush, or wings can sometimes get you past the floor blades.
Precious Cargo:
You can disable the floor blades by pulling on the 4 levers on the post. But I just use Boots of propulsion to get past it.

Hope that helps.

This is somewhat helpful, though I suppose I'll have to go farm a pair of boots.

The advice you have given for "Prove Your Worth" is not the trap that I have a problem with. I had already determined that resurrecting at the bottom of the shaft is a workable solution and there is no point complaining about the ridiculousness of the spikes since I wouldn't get any traction at all with that particular trap. No, the trap I have a problem with is in the elevator shaft on the way up. Apparently there is a "safe spot" somewhere where you can stand while waiting on each elevator - perhaps one day I'll try to find it.

[acemonkey]

This is somewhat helpful, though I suppose I'll have to go farm a pair of boots.

The advice you have given for "Prove Your Worth" is not the trap that I have a problem with. I had already determined that resurrecting at the bottom of the shaft is a workable solution and there is no point complaining about the ridiculousness of the spikes since I wouldn't get any traction at all with that particular trap. No, the trap I have a problem with is in the elevator shaft on the way up. Apparently there is a "safe spot" somewhere where you can stand while waiting on each elevator - perhaps one day I'll try to find it.

The spikes aren't ridiculous, just equip ff and corkscrew your way thru the open spots. You're gonna die anyways with your method, might as well try to learn the pattern on the way down. You might even consider it a chance to earn 10% bonus xp.

On the elevator shaft, nontrappers can jump up on the torch holder above the blades. This is in the Wiki.