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  1. #1
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    Default Is Khopesh really flat out better than Bastard Sword/Dwarven Axe?

    First off, let me acknowledge that yes, I am a noob, and I probably don't know any better, and yes, I already know how the Khopesh seems to be better DPS thanks to it's higher crit capability, and thus scaling with bonuses, but I'd like to ask if there is a reason for the other exotic one-handers that maybe justify them.

    1: Glancing Blows.
    This is probably the most obviously, however one thing I've noticed, is that Glancing blows affect the MAIN target of your attacks as well (Correct me if I'm wrong here). As glancing blows are 20% of regular damage, and affect 2 out of 4 attacks in a combo, this leads to a 10% increase in DPS. (120+120+100+100)/4. Furthermore, you can take the THF tree to boost this to 115, 120, and finally 137.5% of nominal DPS. (As the last THF Feat gives a third attack glancing blows, turning the calculation into (150+150+150+100)/4. This is a 25% damage boost in comparison to un-feated glancing blows damage, and scales with basically everything besides crits. This adds a fair bit of damage, and especially area damage, making them arguably superior for dealing with crowds.

    2: Critical increases.
    Abilities that increase critical threat range or damage often do so by single numbers, which benefit a lower starting weapon, boosting their crit capabilities more effectively than ones that already have very powerful crits, like Khopeshes.

    Am I right here or should I talk to fred?

  2. #2
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKW View Post
    First off, let me acknowledge that yes, I am a noob, and I probably don't know any better, and yes, I already know how the Khopesh seems to be better DPS thanks to it's higher crit capability, and thus scaling with bonuses, but I'd like to ask if there is a reason for the other exotic one-handers that maybe justify them.

    1: Glancing Blows.
    This is probably the most obviously, however one thing I've noticed, is that Glancing blows affect the MAIN target of your attacks as well (Correct me if I'm wrong here). As glancing blows are 20% of regular damage, and affect 2 out of 4 attacks in a combo, this leads to a 10% increase in DPS. (120+120+100+100)/4. Furthermore, you can take the THF tree to boost this to 115, 120, and finally 137.5% of nominal DPS. (As the last THF Feat gives a third attack glancing blows, turning the calculation into (150+150+150+100)/4. This is a 25% damage boost in comparison to un-feated glancing blows damage, and scales with basically everything besides crits. This adds a fair bit of damage, and especially area damage, making them arguably superior for dealing with crowds.

    2: Critical increases.
    Abilities that increase critical threat range or damage often do so by single numbers, which benefit a lower starting weapon, boosting their crit capabilities more effectively than ones that already have very powerful crits, like Khopeshes.

    Am I right here or should I talk to fred?
    Khopesh is 17-20/x3 crit profile which is a 35% increase to base damage 0.75 + 0.2(3) = 1.35.

    Code:
    This code block explains where the 0.75 + 0.2(3) comes from if you understand it then you can skip this block
    
    Let's assume your base damage is 6[d10] +67 = 100 average
    
    A Khopesh Frits on 17-20 at times 3 damage so
    05% of attacks are misses (rolls of 01)
    75% of attacks are normal (rolls of 02-16)
    20% of attacks are criticals (rolls of 17-20)
    
    This means our average damage per hit is 
    0.5(0) + 0.75(100) + 0.2(3)(100) = 135 avg dmg 
    
    35 is 35% of our base 100 damage
    With perfect two handed fighting glancing blows do 60% of base damage on 75% of attacks this means it's an increase to base damage of 45% (0.75*60% = 45%)

    So with a crit profile of 17-20/x2 and PTHF you would be increasing base damage by 60% (17-20/x2 is a total of 15% increase from base 0.75 + 0.2(2) =1.15)

    With only weapon prof bastard sword does an additional 20% damage on 50% of attacks so a 10% increase to base, for a total of 25% increase to base when adding crit power so at one feat bastard sword is behind khopesh.

    THF gets the B. Sword to 30% increase from base
    ITHF gets it to 35% of base which is equal to a khopesh

    So it takes 3 feat (Weapon Prof, THF & ITHF) to get Bastard Sword to the same level of power as a Khopesh with a single feat.

    Note this math ignores the AoE aspect of glancing blows and doesn't factor in the d10 vs d8 difference it just looks at the % power increase each weapon gives. These should be taken into account when making a final selection.

    IMO yes bastard sword can be justified assuming you can justify the feat cost.
    Last edited by Grailhawk; 10-03-2015 at 03:27 AM.

  3. #3
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Khopesh is 17-20/x3 crit profile which is a 35% increase to base damage 0.75 + 0.2(3) = 1.35.

    Code:
    This code block explains where the 0.75 + 0.2(3) comes from if you understand it then you can skip this block
    
    Let's assume your base damage is 6[d10] +67 = 100 average
    
    A Khopesh Frits on 17-20 at times 3 damage so
    05% of attacks are misses (rolls of 01)
    75% of attacks are normal (rolls of 02-16)
    20% of attacks are criticals (rolls of 17-20)
    
    This means our average damage per hit is 
    0.5(0) + 0.75(100) + 0.2(3)(100) = 135 avg dmg 
    
    35 is 35% of our base 100 damage
    With perfect two handed fighting glancing blows do 60% of base damage on 75% of attacks this means it's an increase to base damage of 45% (0.75*60% = 45%)

    So with a crit profile of 17-20/x2 and PTHF you would be increasing base damage by 60% (17-20/x2 is a total of 15% increase from base 0.75 + 0.2(2) =1.15)

    With only weapon prof bastard sword does an additional 20% damage on 50% of attacks so a 10% increase to base, for a total of 25% increase to base when adding crit power so at one feat bastard sword is behind khopesh.

    THF gets the B. Sword to 30% increase from base
    ITHF gets it to 35% of base which is equal to a khopesh

    So it takes 3 feat (Weapon Prof, THF & ITHF) to get Bastard Sword to the same level of power as a Khopesh with a single feat.

    Note this math ignores the AoE aspect of glancing blows and doesn't factor in the d10 vs d8 difference it just looks at the % power increase each weapon gives. These should be taken into account when making a final selection.

    IMO yes bastard sword can be justified assuming you can justify the feat cost.
    I have a similar situation. I recently got the longsword from defiler of the just on a sword and board character that uses bastard swords. He has all 3 of the thf feats. I can't think of any situation where using the long sword, nice as it is, would be better than using the bastard swords he has.

    The only build i could think of that might profit from that longsword is a two weapon pdk warchanter using charisma for damage. I guess a pally vanguard build that couldn't afford the two handed fighting feats could get use out of it as well.

  4. #4
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Crit range is more valuable than base dice damage and multiper, because it affects all on crit effects, and some (namely thunderforged) are not affected by multiper.
    Also, you get glancing blow only in SWF and shield in off hand, so for TWF dorf axe/bsword are worse than khopesh, the only reason to use dorfax inTWF is TYWA, for bsword, IDK.
    Last edited by Vellrad; 10-03-2015 at 06:53 AM.
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