Old Mabar stuff

[HAL]

BTW: Do not make the mistake of thinking this somehow hurts the Dupers. They got their stuff for free. So throwing away what they have left is no big deal. They are laughing at and mocking the poor unfortunate honest folks who worked to get their stuff.

I doubt that Turbine made this decision to "hurt" the dupers as it would only inconvenience them somewhat in not being able to sell their Mabar mats in the upcoming weeks. No, I'm sure the decision was made to HELP the game.

[KristinS]

The people who wanted these "decent items" had plenty of time to acquire them. There was never a guarantee they'd be made eternally available

You're not at fault for collecting ingredients, you're at fault for not cashing them in

There is no guarantee that Green Steel crafting will be available forever. Seriously -- there is no guarantee. People have had years to acquire Shroud ingredients and craft their chosen gear. You see where I'm going here (and yes, it's reductio ad absurdum). They probably aren't going to actually do this, because the player base would revolt, but that just means that part of their decision basis is just "how many people will be upset with this decision?".

Anyway, I know that I'm now a little less likely to potentially waste time farming a recurring event if I'm not sure I'm going to be able to farm enough mats to complete my desired items.

Which is cool for me -- more time for non-DDO activities!

And hey, this might help a little with the lag we see during Festivals, if people don't farm them quite so much!!

[KristinS]

There's your answer. Sadly, this seems to be final so no point keeping at this discussion.

Pointless discussions are the foundation of social media. What percentage of discussions on Facebook, Twitter, blogs, or forums have any realistic chance of having a meaningful impact on the world?

Requiring that conversations serve some useful purpose seems like an awfully high standard to apply to forum discussions about a computer game...

[HAL]

So why was Mabar ingredients targeted specifically and not everything else.

I thought this was fairly obvious:

1. removing the Mabar festival
2. introducing a new Fall festival
3. new festival = new ingredients

[Razor_Wit]

I'm not sure why you would conclude that, because I'm logical, that must mean I have no stake in this issue? I have many more dragon scales than you and would like to get or finish at least several items. That doesn't stop my brain from working.

I made no conclusions about your motives. Those are questions in that post.

[JOTMON]

So why was Mabar ingredients targeted specifically and not everything else

I thought this was fairly obvious:

1. removing the Mabar festival
2. introducing a new Fall festival
3. new festival = new ingredients

bit of a dik move there Hal.
Nice how you cut out one part of the line from the post and commented to the line out of context....
considering the original conversation was about Mabar ingredients being removed due to duping.

So why was Mabar ingredients targeted specifically and not everything else.. like Cove, ice games, ...
Considering every ingredient that goes in any bag could have been duped which includes just about every raid, every event..not just Mabar.

[Razor_Wit]

I want to meet this person

Are you sure you're not this person?

If you read the whole thread you would see that I am referencing another poster. He was then personally attacked for it by another poster.
If I had spent real $$ on shards for mats and then Turbine destroyed them, I would not be shy to say so. As I said earlier , I would be pi**ed-off.

[Faltout]

Pointless discussions are the foundation of social media. What percentage of discussions on Facebook, Twitter, blogs, or forums have any realistic chance of having a meaningful impact on the world?

Requiring that conversations serve some useful purpose seems like an awfully high standard to apply to forum discussions about a computer game...

Off topic here, but here goes:

Every discussion NEEDS a purpose. Be it small or great, but it needs a purpose nonetheless. It doesn't need to change the world or something like that. It just needs to change SOMETHING. Even if that something is totally unrelated to the discussion topic (like you enjoying a silly forum fight).

When you have a discussion and you know that none of the participants (or viewers) are going to change their mind even a little, you should not be having a discussion. A pointless discussion is the foundation of endless attacks with a level of sanity approaching zero and it can only lead to harm. Either mentally (you get irritated) or physically. For example, if 2 people have different set of givens and they argue on the products of those givens, they may as well both have excellent arguments about why their set of given truths create their point of view and still never agree with each other because they never realize they are starting with different set of given truths. This discussion is bound to get ugly with one-line dismissal comments ("You're simply wrong") to attacking the person's credibility ("I was expecting something like this from someone that has...") and then finally simply making each other their personal enemy.

And then there's the type of non-existent discussion. When 2 people simply agree with each other there's no point in talking about it. If talking continues it means someone needs to let off steam because he had disagreed on this matter with someone else that is not available for a discussion. That's kind of what's going on in this topic. Everyone wants the same thing, some have accepted it's not coming back, some haven't and some debate a different issue ("You shouldn't be upset that it's not coming back"). The developers don't seem to be changing their take on this though, and that was the disagreeing party.

Finally, here's something you should NEVER say in a discussion: "The point of a discussion is to hear different views on a matter, not agree on something". With this, you're stating that you will not change your mind in any way and that the other party has been wasting their time so far. Sure, if at some point you realize that you have a different set of given truths (ex. If the topic is a matter of perception like "This is ugly or this is nice") then by all means stop the discussion with the excuse that you'd never agree anyway. But every party enters a discussion hoping to achieve something (even if they don't admit it).

As for having expectations of an online game forum: I have those expectations from the entire civilization, not discriminating. Civilized discussions should follow some rules and I will remind them when I talk to my family, my friends, a stranger, to a forum, to a parliament, to a group, to a king/queen. Anywhere really.

[Nonesuch2008]

They could hardly put Joe in the graveyard NOW, after telling everyone that its safe to destroy all their ingredients

It wouldn't be fair to the people who did

Sure they could. Decisions & choices have consequences, people have to be prepared to accept them. Besides, I have no intention of having the past compete with the present, as I have voiced in another Mabar thread. Myself and at least one other individual have stated that the Hall of Heroes would be great landing spot for a short visit by the trader.

Duping is obviously not the only consideration in whether an ingredient is axed or not. The main reason mabar ingredients got scrapped is because they were deemed unimportant and obsolete.

The "because of dupers" angle was only tossed out there because it was an easy opportunity to take a swipe at people who had caused a lot of headaches

Get over it, people. Mabar was an event with a start and finish. If you decided to collect more than you needed during that event, that's your problem. If you hadn't gone into a gimme gimme frenzy and hoarded more than you'd ever need, you'd have nothing to ***** about

How many of you have hundreds of ethereal keys? And how long did it take to get a key if you needed one?

Exactly

No, actually it was voiced in several areas that the duping at the time was a concern. The Summoning Chamber ran for YEARS despite the lag & reports of mote duping. What really brought it to a head was the duping of the +5 tome Signets. Motes = In-game player economy, Tome sales = Real World economy. Yes, the Chamber did cause performance issues for the game, but I would not overlook the correlation there with the introduction of the Signets & the timing of the closure.

IIRC when it was announced Mabar was being shutdown early, they gave a window of time Joe was still available. If you didn't seize this opportunity, that's your problem

People who hoarded, or for some reason needlessly bought Mabar ingredients, they gambled that the event would return, despite the outrage it caused every year.

They lost

Did it ever occur to you that in that time frame that people could have been working full shift? Or traveling? Or some other life event that prevented them from getting to the game & doing what you described? There are plenty of us in that boat, and to make such a sweeping generalization demonstrates your lack of consideration for these types of circumstances & fellow players. You act as if everyone held out intentionally, a position to which you couldn't possibly know to be fact.

Finally, you act as if people hoarded mat's like gluttonous swine, when the actuality of it is that there of those of us who held onto them because we were TOLD to & given the impression that Mabar would return!

I don't want to commit to a "when" on Mabar's return, but it's not gone for good.

I would not recommend getting rid of any old event ingredients, but do not know our future plans for old Mabar ingredients. When we know more, we will let people know.

Oh look, the next post under Cordo's "...not gone for good" one:

Glad to hear it'll be back. I wandered the explorer zone last night for a last look in case...that was IT!

To each his own. I'm not looking to cash in a hoard of motes, all I want to do is upgrade some wraps and a few cloaks that I didn't get to do previously.

[KristinS]

Off topic here, but here goes:

Every discussion NEEDS a purpose. Be it small or great, but it needs a purpose nonetheless. It doesn't need to change the world or something like that. It just needs to change SOMETHING. Even if that something is totally unrelated to the discussion topic (like you enjoying a silly forum fight).

You were the one who asserted that if we can't alter Turbine's decision in this instance, then further discussion is pointless. I responded to your implied usage of the term -- that discussion is pointless if it can't lead to immediate, measurable changes.

I agree with you that this isn't really the sole purpose of discussions. Within the context of social media, I'd argue it's not even the primary purpose.

To the people who care about an issue, then discussions of why people are unhappy, how they feel unfairly treated, and/or how they wish things would have been handled, aren't pointless. If nothing else, it gives them the opportunity to express how and why they feel, and perhaps to change some hearts that might influence further decisions. It may also simply make them feel better to express their unhappiness and feel that their complaint has been heard (which is why I think it would be foolish for Turbine to block such discussions).

I don't see how the two sentences I highlighted are particularly consistent with your earlier post. If this discussion doesn't have to change Turbine's decision in this case to serve a purpose, then I don't see a particularly compelling argument that this discussion is unquestionably pointless. This isn't a one-on-one discussion between Turbine and a particular customer, this is more of a round table discussion involving quite a few people. Turbine's actual participation in the discussion has been minimal thus far -- I haven't seen a single response to any of the points I've made, or to a lot of the other views expressed. Since Turbine isn't really an active participant in this discussion, I don't see why it matters much how much their hearts have already been hardened on this issue.

I think some of the people that have posted in this thread have brought up good points. They may not persuade the Turbine powers-that-be, but that doesn't mean they aren't influencing anyone. I've seen a couple of posts that imply that people have at least slightly changed their minds over the course of this discussion.

Finally, here's something you should NEVER say in a discussion: "The point of a discussion is to hear different views on a matter, not agree on something".

Something else you shouldn't do in a discussion is to foreclose people expressing their opinions simply because you don't think they can convince the powers-that-be to behave differently in the short-term future.

Actually, just in general, I don't think it's very helpful to tell people they shouldn't talk about an issue...

[Ykt]

I thought this was fairly obvious:

1. removing the Mabar festival
2. introducing a new Fall festival
3. new festival = new ingredients

Cordovan said there would be no trade-in for the remaining ingredients because of the duping that occurred.

[kned225]

Sure they could. Decisions & choices have consequences, people have to be prepared to accept them. Besides, I have no intention of having the past compete with the present, as I have voiced in another Mabar thread. Myself and at least one other individual have stated that the Hall of Heroes would be great landing spot for a short visit by the trader.



No, actually it was voiced in several areas that the duping at the time was a concern. The Summoning Chamber ran for YEARS despite the lag & reports of mote duping. What really brought it to a head was the duping of the +5 tome Signets. Motes = In-game player economy, Tome sales = Real World economy. Yes, the Chamber did cause performance issues for the game, but I would not overlook the correlation there with the introduction of the Signets & the timing of the closure.




Did it ever occur to you that in that time frame that people could have been working full shift? Or traveling? Or some other life event that prevented them from getting to the game & doing what you described? There are plenty of us in that boat, and to make such a sweeping generalization demonstrates your lack of consideration for these types of circumstances & fellow players. You act as if everyone held out intentionally, a position to which you couldn't possibly know to be fact.

Finally, you act as if people hoarded mat's like gluttonous swine, when the actuality of it is that there of those of us who held onto them because we were TOLD to & given the impression that Mabar would return!

No...sorry... they couldn't put Joe back now after telling people in this thread....not threads from yesteryear....thats its ok to destroy their mats. Could you imagine them saying "ok destroy it, its worthless", then a couple days later saying "HAHA...sucker, i was kidding....all that stuff you trashed?...now it has some value again!!! ZING"

Your vacation schedule is not Turbine's concern. You had plenty of time to "upgrade your wraps"...or whatever. Do you want them to extend every limited time thing anytime someone says they were on vacation, or had to work, or their doggie was sick? You snooze, you lose

Whether or not Mabar was to return doesn't change whether or not you hoarded ingredients like a....what you said. I guarantee you have farrrr more in the bank than is needed to do what you describe

Try letting go. Its liberating

[donblas]

Try letting go. Its liberating

Yet you don't seem to be letting this thread go, despite seeming not to care much. Odd.

Maybe you should liberate yourself by letting this thread go?

My personal view is that it seems odd that because some people gained from duping, those that did not should have some of their stuff made useless.

I suppose it does kill the argument that dupers use: "my duping does not affect your game". It seems that they do affect me.

Are there any characteristics/buffs that I should look for when partying that might identify someone who is likely to have duped? So that they can be avoided?

[kned225]

Maybe you should liberate yourself by letting this thread go?

My personal view is that it seems odd that because some people gained from duping, those that did not should have some of their stuff made useless.

No need to be rude

Im just surprised how much value people attach to this stuff. A lot of people must have been doing mabar wrong because my experience was....skulls, fingers, keys....you couldn't move without getting tons of this stuff. The dragon used to give up to four scales... I made everything i ever wanted....and then some in ONE EVENT with not much effort

If you destroyed all your junk and they restarted mabar tomorrow, you'd be mabar rich again in what?....two hours?

Whoopee.

[stoerm]

People assumed their ingredients would be useful in following years.

They assumed wrong.

Get used to the fact that MMOs are all about change. Don't get too invested in items, builds, events, mechanisms, whatever. Your time is a resource you should use wisely. Don't put all your time-eggs in one basket.

/off to level some DDO alts and later some World of Tanks

[JOTMON]

11-01-2013, 11:45 AM

Yes, we've identified several problems, and have begun investigations into the best way to resolve them. However, that work must be balanced with our efforts to get Update 20 out the door, in addition to other priorities, so we expect the development work on Mabar to take place over a longer period of time. I don't want to commit to a "when" on Mabar's return, but it's not gone for good.

09-12-2014, 11:42 AM

We will be replacing the Mabar Festival of Endless Night with a new event, currently scheduled to debut sometime after the release of Update 24 (not this next update; the one after it.) The new event is likely to make its debut after the new year. We're not yet ready to provide details about the event, other than the hint provided in the Producer's Letter from July, but we can say that the event's items will be the items from Mabar. At this time we have not been able to recover the Mabar festival in a way that addresses the issues with it and allow for its return.

02-26-2015, 02:48 PM

I would not recommend getting rid of any old event ingredients, but do not know our future plans for old Mabar ingredients. When we know more, we will let people know.

Update 25 is coming out after the formal anniversary date, but the Mimic Hunt is this weekend's bonus. The event continues through March 8th, and we will have an additional bonus next weekend as well.

09-29-2015, 12:02 PM

Sorry, but no. The old Mabar ingredients will not be used for the Night Revels event.

This comment in of itself doesn't say Mabar is done, just not for use with Night revels.

Perhaps someone can find a post where Dev's tell us that we should use up our Mabar ingredients because they will be removed.
Couldn't actually find anything where Cordovan "lets us know more" until... Cordovan drops the hammer

09-29-2015, 01:33 PM

Yes, you can get rid of the old Mabar ingredients if you wish. None of the ingredients will be used in the future. We aren't automatically deleting them from the game as we know some folks like to save these things for archival purposes.

[visibleman]

Cheating is natural, normal even. There will always be cheaters in everything. It is to be expected.

Lets be clear who is to blame here.

TURBINE.

They wrote the dodgy code.
Their poor testing regime failed to spot the flaws in their code.
Their QA team passed the dodgy code for Live use.
And they continued to run the Event even once they were aware that cheats were exploiting their code.

Oh and lets not forget the soul crushing LAG (also TURBINEs fault) that meant 3 out of 4 runs wiped.

The cheats got everything they wanted, while honest players struggled to get just one effin cloak.

I understand Turbines reasoning, but it is flawed. The cheats may have billions of motes, but they already have all the items they want so those Motes are of no use to them except in trade. So here is the solution...

1. Make the OLD Mabar ingredients BTA, so the cheats cant sell/trade them.
2. Bring back the Mabar Vendor (this one time only), so players can use up Mabar collectables.
3. Allow swapping of NEW ingredients to OLD, so players who don't have enough scales, fangs etc can complete a Mabar item.

Oh, and make all the Mabar items BTA.

[HAL]

bit of a dik move there Hal.
Nice how you cut out one part of the line from the post and commented to the line out of context....
considering the original conversation was about Mabar ingredients being removed due to duping.

There was no "move" - I thought my comment made the rest obvious: they are removing Mabar ingredients because they are removing Mabar. They aren't removing Cove, ice games, etc ingredients because they are not removing or otherwise overhauling those Festivals.

Removing Mabar ingredients while already removing Mabar is an easy and logical move. Removing the other ingredients would be a much bigger issue.

[HAL]

Cheating is natural, normal even. There will always be cheaters in everything. It is to be expected.

I don't know what you hope to gain by trying to defend cheating. It is wrong and just because there are people who like to break rules doesn't mean that we should just put up with them. In fact if everyone refused to associate with anyone who cheats there would be far less cheaters.

And the consequences of cheating are on the cheaters - no one else.

[Razor_Wit]

No...sorry... they couldn't put Joe back now after telling people in this thread....not threads from yesteryear....thats its ok to KEEP their mats. Could you imagine them saying "KEEP THEM DONT THROW THEM OUT, then a couple YEARS later saying "HAHA...sucker, i was kidding....all that stuff you KEPT?...now it has NO value again!!! ZING"

snip*

and FTFY....