Need help on my pure monk hand wrap user.

[hunzi2010]

Hey guys, wondering if I can get some help or ideas on a monk build that uses handwraps.
I know monk is a bit messed up now, but wondering of someone can help me out a bit.
id still like to be pure, but if I have to splash then that's fine.
I still want to use my handwraps and have my stances too. at the moment my problem is robes have rubbish prr and mrr and im getting schmammered
looking at tring him, he is currently a Halfling. ( I know I still need to get the double strike etr's done.)
any ideas would be great.

Thanks everyone.

Hunzi

[Therrias]

Hey guys, wondering if I can get some help or ideas on a monk build that uses handwraps.
I know monk is a bit messed up now, but wondering of someone can help me out a bit.
id still like to be pure, but if I have to splash then that's fine.
I still want to use my handwraps and have my stances too. at the moment my problem is robes have rubbish prr and mrr and im getting schmammered
looking at tring him, he is currently a Halfling. ( I know I still need to get the double strike etr's done.)
any ideas would be great.

Thanks everyone.

Hunzi

Handwraps are pretty much dead. You should reincarnate into a shuriken build if you want to stay pure monk and compete with recently updated classes.

[kamimitsu]

I recently revisited my STR based half-orc pure Monk, light path w/ stunning fist & quivering palm. I specc'd him Shintao mostly with a heavy dose of Ninja Spy. There's an Earth Stance PRR bonus toggle Meditation of War that beefs up the normal Earth Stance PRR. It's worth it to keep from getting swatted. Don't worry about the dodge bonus penalty, as the capstone negates it (if you go pure). He seems to be doing just fine so far. Hits like a truck and at great speed, and so far he seems fairly survivable with the PRR boost.

[Enderoc]

The only reason Monk is a bit messed up is people play them like fighters instead of like a Tasmanian Kung Fu Devil. Have you noticed in retreating you can sidestep arrows and even swings from weapons at times? Play it with heart and soul as though you were really a lightly clothed monk fighting armies of creatons and then you will have more fun. You don't need to trade blows with the enemy, learn to be offensively evasive. They started this by granting you speed bonuses, the rest is left to you. I would suggest building your character with that in mind.

[hunzi2010]

Cheers guys,

any sort of a build I can digest?
or feats that would benefit me? don't want to play a thrower and don't really want to play a stick monk.
maybe I need to put him on the back burner and do some beneficial heroic tr's on him till the revise the monk trees perhaps.

[Therrias]

Cheers guys,

any sort of a build I can digest?
or feats that would benefit me? don't want to play a thrower and don't really want to play a stick monk.
maybe I need to put him on the back burner and do some beneficial heroic tr's on him till the revise the monk trees perhaps.

If you're only worried about survivability, just stack up 9 divine EPLs. Maybe 9 primal as well for hp. You're still usually better off with shortswords than wraps though.

[Enderoc]

New Build All the pros stay in Earth Stance for obvious reasons, so its okay to cut some con. If you are serious at least somewhat about the game, investing in at least a +4 supreme is to me mandatory.
Monk 20
Lawful Neutral Human


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .34pt . . 36pt . . Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . ---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .16 . . . 16. . . .16. . . .+4 . . . 4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .14 . . . 14. . . .14. . . .+4 . . . 8: DEX
Constitution. . 12. . . .12 . . . 12. . . .12. . . .+4 . . .12: WIS
Intelligence. . 14. . . .14 . . . 14. . . .14. . . .+4 . . .16: WIS
Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . .14 . . . 15. . . .16. . . .+4 . . .20: WIS
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . .8. . . . 8. . . .+4 . . .24: WIS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: WIS

Skills
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Spot. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Balance . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Jump. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Hide. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Move Si . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Tumble. . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Listen. . . . . . . . . . . 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 2 .2. 2 .2. 2 .2. 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .28 .7. 7 .7. 7 .7. 8 .8. 8 .8. 8 .8. 8 .8. 9 .9. 9 .9. 9 .9


Feats

.1. . . . : Stunning Fist
.1 Human. : Dodge
.1 Monk . : Mobility
.2 Monk . : Combat Expertise
.3. . . . : Power Attack
.3 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
.6. . . . : Spring Attack
.6 Monk . : Two Weapon Fighting
.9. . . . : Whirlwind Attack
12. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
15. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
18. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
21 Epic . : Improved Martial Arts
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Great Ability: Wisdom
28 Destiny: Holy Strike


Enhancements (80 AP)

Human (28 AP)

• Damage Boost, Wisdom
  
  1. Skill Focus: Athletic III, Action Surge: Wisdom III, Improved Recovery, Don't Count Me Out III
  2. Ambidexterity III
  3. Improved Recovery, Heroism
  4. Improved Recovery, Greater Heroism

Shintao (41 AP)

• Bastion of Purity, Protection from Tainted Creatures, Iron Hand, Argent First, Touch the Void Dragon
  
  1. Reed in the Wind III, Deft Strikes III
  2. Iron Skin III, Fists of Iron, Conditioning III
  3. Wisdom
  4. Instinctive Defense III, Wisdom
  5. Violence Begets Violence, Meditation of War, Empty Hand Mastery

Ninja Spy (11 AP)

• Basic Ninja Training
  
  1. Stealthy III, Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic III
  2. Sneak Attack Training

Destiny (24 AP)

Grandmaster of Flowers

1. Lily Petal, Perfect Balance III, Enlightenment III, Dance of Flowers III
2. Hail of Blows
3. Orchid Blossom, Light as a Feather, Perfection of Body II
4. Standing with Stone III
5. Drifting Lotus, Perfection of Soul II
6. Scattering of Petals, Everything is Nothing

[hunzi2010]

Awesome I will give that a go, I have +6 tomes, yes I brought them off the store...lol
I have noticed a lot of people running human monks in primal and going tree form. is this any good. any advantages?
cheers.

[inspiredunease]

Tree builds are a whole other topic, and as far as I'm concerned an exploit, so I won't discuss them here.

But Enderoc, why the hell are you putting 14 points into int and not taking know the angles? I know skills are fun, but jeez Louise, what a waste! Also all those points in human to get heroism and GH are a bit of a waste. It's entirely possible to UMD GH without too much hassle, even on a cross-class skill basis as here.

OP, personally I would go with your earlier inclination and get some heroic TRs out of the way until monks are put in their rightful place as the pinnacle of all classes in DDO; or, if you must play a monk icon class (and I do sympathise, I regularly have to roll up alts in order to get my monk fix), I really like Dirk Tyrant's Monklock build a couple posts down.

If you really, really, really need a pure monk build, I think this is a better revision, taking note of your +6 tomes. It's more versatile with a ranged option, and as long as you can stack even a little bit of int on, a lot more DPS. It will also get a just about workable EiN and SF DC (when the stars align and the moon is pink).

Tears for a lost age
Monk 20
Lawful Neutral Human


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 14. . . .+6. . . .4: WIS
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+6. . . .8: WIS
Constitution. . 12. . . .+6. . . 12: WIS
Intelligence. . 16. . . .+6. . . 16: WIS
Wisdom. . . . . 16. . . .+6. . . 20: WIS
Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+6. . . 24: WIS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: WIS

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Balance . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 2. . . . 1. . .1 .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
Hide. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Move Si . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Tumble. . 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
UMD . . . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .32. 5. 7. 7. 7. 7. 9. 5. 9. 5. 9. 5. 9. 5. 9. 5. 9. 5. 9. 5
. . . . .32. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 10 10


Feats

.1. . . . : Cleave
.1 Human. : Power Attack
.1 Monk . : Deflect Arrows
.2 Monk . : Stunning Fist
.3. . . . : Precision
.3 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
.6. . . . : Ten Thousand Stars
.6 Monk . : Two Weapon Fighting
.9. . . . : Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning/Great Cleave (depending on if you feel you need more AOE or single target DPS)
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Vorpal Strikes
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Improved Martial Arts
28 Destiny: Tactician


Enhancements (80 AP)

Human (1 AP)

• Damage Boost

Shintao (41 AP)

• Bastion of Purity, Protection from Tainted Creatures, Iron Hand, Argent First, Touch the Void Dragon, To Seek Perfection
  
  1. Deft Strikes III
  2. Smite Tainted Creature, Iron Skin III, Fists of Iron, Conditioning III
  3. Jade Strike, Dismissing Strike, Wisdom
  4. Instinctive Defense I, Wisdom
  5. Violence Begets Violence, Meditation of War, Empty Hand Mastery

Henshin Mystic (3 AP)

• Riddle of Fire
  
  1. Way of the: Patient Tortoise

Ninja Spy (26 AP)

• Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training, Shadow Veil
  
  1. Stealthy III, Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic III
  2. Sneak Attack Training, Agility III
  3. Sneak Attack Training, Wisdom
  4. No Mercy III

Harper Agent (9 AP)

• Agent of Good I
  
  1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
  2. Magical Endurance I, Know the Angles III

[Enderoc]

Because grave wrappings is all you need with wisdom that high (the neg level is meaningless trust me), and I dont think know the angles improves damage output on wraps. It is not just for skills, its also for combat expertise which is a pre req for whirlwind. Also if you are doing path of harmonious balance you want some healing amplification in my opinion. And being Human you can get bonuses for unarmed combat. I went that route instead of Harper for those two reasons.

Whirlwind on a monk makes it all that much more fun to play...especially in epics where in Grandmaster of Flowers you start getting your AOE crowd control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=tHg-uLjddzM

Everytime you do a whirlwind attack you are hitting everything around you 2-4 times. Watch the hp on the kobolds every time you see it used.

From the Wiki_

"This is a great feat, but unfortunately it's bugged with weapon attacks (a test with screenshots). This feat works properly for unarmed attacks (such as Monks), dealing 2 to 4 attacks on all enemies in a 360 degree arc around the character. While a very expensive feat for players to attain, players do gain substantial Dodge bonuses from the hefty feat prerequisites. This video shows how a Monk uses the feat."

Now going with my stay mobile advice being you are running around in PJs...all those feats minus situationally combat expertise is of tremendous benefit. (twisting legendary tactics and applying other stacking items to increase your stun DC makes know the angles, especially when it has a spell point cost...worthless in my opinion as you can have a high permanent DC without it that will work even in EE. I would save those spell points for Cocoon)

[hunzi2010]

Hmmm something to think about,
it is very feat dependent though.
don't think dodge works like it used to though

[Enderoc]

Hmmm something to think about,
it is very feat dependent though.
don't think dodge works like it used to though

You should be getting a total bonus of 7% dodge just from those feats alone.

[WeiQuinn]

Tree builds are a whole other topic, and as far as I'm concerned an exploit, so I won't discuss them here.

*snip*
If you really, really, really need a pure monk build, I think this is a better revision, taking note of your +6 tomes. It's more versatile with a ranged option, and as long as you can stack even a little bit of int on, a lot more DPS. It will also get a just about workable EiN and SF DC (when the stars align and the moon is pink).

Tears for a lost age
Monk 20
Lawful Neutral Human


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 14. . . .+6. . . .4: WIS
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+6. . . .8: WIS
Constitution. . 12. . . .+6. . . 12: WIS
Intelligence. . 16. . . .+6. . . 16: WIS
Wisdom. . . . . 16. . . .+6. . . 20: WIS
Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+6. . . 24: WIS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: WIS

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Balance . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 2. . . . 1. . .1 .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
Hide. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Move Si . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Tumble. . 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
UMD . . . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .32. 5. 7. 7. 7. 7. 9. 5. 9. 5. 9. 5. 9. 5. 9. 5. 9. 5. 9. 5
. . . . .32. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9 10 10 10 10 10 10


Feats

.1. . . . : Cleave
.1 Human. : Power Attack
.1 Monk . : Deflect Arrows
.2 Monk . : Stunning Fist
.3. . . . : Precision
.3 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
.6. . . . : Ten Thousand Stars
.6 Monk . : Two Weapon Fighting
.9. . . . : Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning/Great Cleave (depending on if you feel you need more AOE or single target DPS)
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Vorpal Strikes
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Improved Martial Arts
28 Destiny: Tactician


*snip*[/list][/list]

What is the point of Weapon Focus: Bludgeon? Is it a pre-req for another feat? It only grants +1 to-hit, which isn't a big deal.

[Firewall]

What is the point of Weapon Focus: Bludgeon? Is it a pre-req for another feat? It only grants +1 to-hit, which isn't a big deal.

Weapon Focus also grants +2 melee power.

[Saekee]

Go whirlwind attack on an unarmed monk; it is the only form of combat in which it works.
In LD combat expertise gets a further buff of Improved Combat Expertise for 20 PRR. So with earth stance, Iron Skin, tier 5 shintao, Blitz and other gear you will have good PRR (on top of which you also have improved evasion and solid saves). I suggest you also get the ToEE set for more MP to make up for its lack in the monk tress (they need a revamp) and find gear for the stun bonus (like a Dun robar ring).

[inspiredunease]

Go whirlwind attack on an unarmed monk; it is the only form of combat in which it works.
In LD combat expertise gets a further buff of Improved Combat Expertise for 20 PRR. So with earth stance, Iron Skin, tier 5 shintao, Blitz and other gear you will have good PRR (on top of which you also have improved evasion and solid saves). I suggest you also get the ToEE set for more MP to make up for its lack in the monk tress (they need a revamp) and find gear for the stun bonus (like a Dun robar ring).

Do not do this. Cleave plus great cleave is better from an aoe uptime perspective, and doesn't require you to waste four other feats. And as for running in combat expertise, bleugh. You will almost always want to be running in precision for the fort bypass. Can't argue with the Dun'robar, although Visions of Precision is obviously the ultimate monk item in the game at the moment.

Weapon Focus also grants +2 melee power.

This. As I said, it's an option if you really don't want to take great cleave, but personally I would. Monk's don't have a lot of AoE options.

[Saekee]

Do not do this. Cleave plus great cleave is better from an aoe uptime perspective, and doesn't require you to waste four other feats. And as for running in combat expertise, bleugh. You will almost always want to be running in precision for the fort bypass. Can't argue with the Dun'robar, although Visions of Precision is obviously the ultimate monk item in the game at the moment.



This. As I said, it's an option if you really don't want to take great cleave, but personally I would. Monk's don't have a lot of AoE options.

fort bypass important for the lousy crit profile of handwraps? He will also get fort bypass from GmoF as another option if he wishes to run in a different destiny and twist improved combat expertise. The OP asked for defensive options to boost PRR and defenses in general. Having the extra dodge from the feat line plus 20 PRR is solid. Whirlwind also is hugely effective with wraps for AoE.

[inspiredunease]

fort bypass important for the lousy crit profile of handwraps? He will also get fort bypass from GmoF as another option if he wishes to run in a different destiny and twist improved combat expertise. The OP asked for defensive options to boost PRR and defenses in general. Having the extra dodge from the feat line plus 20 PRR is solid. Whirlwind also is hugely effective with wraps for AoE.

The defensive feats only add dodge which is trivial to cap anyway (EDIT: actually not quite as trivial as I thought, at least one dodge feat might actually be a good idea, but there's plenty of room in the build), and I would rather have 3 net feats + cleave + great cleave than whirlwind. Fort bypass for 3d6 sneak damage (scaling with 150% melee power) and 25% more crits? Who doesn't want 25% more crits? A dead mob is a mob that is not hitting you.

As I said in my original post, basically monks are a wash-out at the moment, OP would be better getting past lives elsewhere, I simply provided an optimal 20 monk handwrap build (as futile as that is). Its' squishy, but that's a problem with monks, not the build. You can still get >1k HPs running in earth stance, not to mention 25% incorp, 30% dodge, and then you can scrape together 90 PRR if you really push for it (sheltering 35, 15 mountain stance, 15 iron skin, 10 meditation of war 15 standing with stone), and a little more if you go with ToEE set, obviously in addition you'll get 30 PRR from blitz if that's your ED.