The Divine Cuisinart: A dual khopesh wielding pure tempest ranger in divine crusader

[RS-Makk]

apparently the elemental vulnerability overrides or cancels or prevents stacking of regular vulnerability (eth had posted about this somewhere). i havent tested this, but given that information i slotted 150 devtion as t1 on all my khopeshes for my mainhand on my pure ranger.

Is the 150 devotion is the same one that can be slotted on items (augment) for 138? Maybe an option would be to just go with ToS or ToF for Tier 1?

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Is the 150 devotion is the same one that can be slotted on items (augment) for 138? Maybe an option would be to just go with ToS or ToF for Tier 1?

i really like the devotion as my first tier for a couple reasons.

-its higher than you could augment.
-saves an augment slot of something more useful for dps.

i absolutely hate divine crusader (tbh, any destiny that is not dreadnaught, and its not even because of blitz), and will only run in it for etrs, abbot, and mod so i dont have the alignment based dr breaker. so, on my burning emptiness tf pesh, i slot a good aug, and for my toee pesh i also slot a good aug. not a perfect system but it works well enough. for my crippling flame pesh i slot deconstructor. and for my mf pesh i have a star ruby for the possibility of some very helpful cc. none of this would be possible if i had to slot devo on each of my tf peshes in favor of some meh, nonscaling, situationally negative dps crafting options. because i would definitely keep good dr breaker on my toee weap.

[CThruTheEgo]

Is the 150 devotion is the same one that can be slotted on items (augment) for 138? Maybe an option would be to just go with ToS or ToF for Tier 1?

Yes, the 150 devotion is the same as the augment for 138. Recent updates have an abundance of devils and we know that the next update or two also will. A good portion of those mobs are immune or highly resistant to fire damage, which significantly lowers the effectiveness of touch of flames. Several slightly older updates, which are still run frequently enough to matter, have an abundance of undead. Undead are either immune or, worse, actually healed by negative energy damage. That significantly lowers the effectiveness of touch of shadows. So rather than carry a golf bag of weapons to adapt to the content I'm currently running, which would be the ideal solution, I chose the easy route by crafting 150 devotion and slotting an electric ruby eye. Some mobs are at endgame are still resistant or immune to electric damage, but this isn't nearly as prevalent as resistance or immunity to fire and negative energy damage. So I'll end up with slightly better healing and a more versatile weapon set.

[RS-Makk]

i really like the devotion as my first tier for a couple reasons.

-its higher than you could augment.
-saves an augment slot of something more useful for dps.

i absolutely hate divine crusader (tbh, any destiny that is not dreadnaught, and its not even because of blitz), and will only run in it for etrs, abbot, and mod so i dont have the alignment based dr breaker. so, on my burning emptiness tf pesh, i slot a good aug, and for my toee pesh i also slot a good aug. not a perfect system but it works well enough. for my crippling flame pesh i slot deconstructor. and for my mf pesh i have a star ruby for the possibility of some very helpful cc. none of this would be possible if i had to slot devo on each of my tf peshes in favor of some meh, nonscaling, situationally negative dps crafting options. because i would definitely keep good dr breaker on my toee weap.

for my info, what's your plan for when facing dr good+some metal? I know you are set with the tf weapon, but what about the toee?

[the_one_dwarfforged]

for my info, what's your plan for when facing dr good+some metal? I know you are set with the tf weapon, but what about the toee?

eat the penalty or have an arti in the group. the alignment thingy might be worth twisting (that is something id want to run the numbers on) if i wasnt true neutral. also saving up silver scrolls works since you only need it for your offhand anyway, unfortunately afaik these cant be bought from a vendor.

most of the time its a non issue.

[RS-Makk]

I just TR’d and stoned up to 25 (plan is to do 3 more Epic PLs – which happen to be the Divine PLs – to complete Epic Completionist). Working on pulling the right gear from the TR cache and other odds and ends before I start running him. Went with Dex based / Scimitars for now.. mostly because I have the right gear for the ETR levels for Dex based (last life being a Dex melee). When I complete Epic Completionist I may switch to Str based / Pesh.

I have a few questions.

First, you show a BAB of 32 on your PRR calculation. What gets you above full (28) BAB?

Why did you choose Many cuts instead of 1000 cuts? Was it only to have 1 less clicky to manage? I kind of dig that (too many clickies for me often means I forget about some), but just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing anything.

I’ve never run DC so haven’t had the chance to figure out how to best use the various abilities. For Consecration, given it’s 30 spell points per use, I’m assuming it’s not something you run with all the time. How do you manage it? (just use on bosses? Have a ‘budget’ of a sub-set of your SPs for it?)

For Zeal, how do you usually manage it with it’s long cooldown. Do you turn it on pretty much everytime it comes off cooldown or do you save it for the bigger fights?

Similar question for Parry. Do you pretty much click it everytime it comes off cooldown or save it for bigger fights?

Lastly, regarding the metamagics (Quicken and Maximize?). (I’ve never had a build with metamagics). What’s the best way to manage their use (so you just don’t burn through your SP pool too quickly)?

Thanks much.

[CThruTheEgo]

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner RS-Makk. I was very busy this weekend.

First, you show a BAB of 32 on your PRR calculation. What gets you above full (28) BAB?

Probably just a mistake. I likely added the 4 BAB from epic levels to the 28 from divine crusader's just cause, but I don't think those should stack. I haven't updated the OP after U28.1, so the PRR/MRR needs updating anyway. Thanks for catching this.

Why did you choose Many cuts instead of 1000 cuts? Was it only to have 1 less clicky to manage? I kind of dig that (too many clickies for me often means I forget about some), but just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing anything.

You have two options with a thousand cuts. Either you save it for emergencies and use it as burst dps only, or you keep it on constant cooldown to maximize your use of it. It does make excellent burst dps, there's no doubt about that. If you keep it on constant cooldown, it adds an average of 5 doublestrike and 5 melee power. Many cuts is only 1 doublestrike and 1 melee power lower than that, so it's a minor loss for more consistent dps and less clicky management. Either one is a solid option, it just depends on your preference. I prefer greater consistency and less clicky management.

I’ve never run DC so haven’t had the chance to figure out how to best use the various abilities. For Consecration, given it’s 30 spell points per use, I’m assuming it’s not something you run with all the time. How do you manage it? (just use on bosses? Have a ‘budget’ of a sub-set of your SPs for it?)

There is very little for a ranger to spend their sp on. There's really only 2 buff spells that are worth self-casting at the beginning of a quest: ram's might and FoM (and jump if not str based). I don't even bother buffing others with everything I have because so many effects are easily obtainable in the game today. If someone asks, then I'll buff them with what they want. But, in general, ranger spells don't have much to offer. So assuming a spell point pool of 900 sp, that's 30 casts of consecration, which should be more than enough for the vast majority of quests between shrines. And the cooldown is short enough that you don't really need to worry about "saving" it for certain fights, you can just use it whenever it seems appropriate.

You want to be smart about when to use it though. If you're only fighting 1-2 mobs that are going to go down quickly, there's no point in dropping a consecration. But if you just started a fighting with a half dozen mobs, that's the perfect time to use it, especially since it does additional damage to them and increases the dps of everyone standing in it. And I'll usually make it known to the group at the start of a quest that I will be using consecration, so they can get free healing and more dps by standing in it. Most people by now know this and do so anyway, but not everyone.

For Zeal, how do you usually manage it with it’s long cooldown. Do you turn it on pretty much everytime it comes off cooldown or do you save it for the bigger fights?

I generally keep it on constant cooldown to get max value out of it. The only time I'll wait to use it, is when I know a certain fight is coming up that I'll want max dps for (i.e. bosses, or maybe a big wave).

Similar question for Parry. Do you pretty much click it everytime it comes off cooldown or save it for bigger fights?

I usually save this more for "oh ****" moments.

Lastly, regarding the metamagics (Quicken and Maximize?). (I’ve never had a build with metamagics). What’s the best way to manage their use (so you just don’t burn through your SP pool too quickly)?

I generally save quickened/maximized cure serious/mod wounds for emergency healing only. If there's a consecration going and my hp is low, I'll try to wait for the next tick from consecration. If I'm just being swarmed and taking too many hits and consecration alone won't save me, then I won't hesitate to use cure serious (that's also when I'm likely to use elaborate parry). Outside of fights I'll use heal scrolls to save sp. Rangers do have a much smaller sp pool than most blue bars, so you do have to be somewhat conservative with it, but if you are then it should be enough for most quests. If you rely too much on quickened/maximized cure serious/mod wounds spells, then you will burn through your sp.

[CThruTheEgo]

So I finally put aside my warlock and got back to this build. I just hit level 28 yesterday. Updated the OP for U28.1, which mainly consisted of adjusting MRR.

Survivability is definitely the pure tempest's weakness. This build is still survivable, but it's certainly not invincible.

Manyshot is still viable after the changes, so I'll be keeping imp crit ranged. I also decided to drop elusive target and take doubleshot instead to boost manyshot a little further. This results in roughly a 2% loss of total miss chance.

I like dance of death, but find getting the proper positioning to get max value out of it to be annoying sometimes. Sometimes mobs just don't end up where you want them to at the right time. The twf hit box needs some serious adjusting imo. Despite its problems, though, dance of death is still a great AoE trash clearer.

[Grailhawk]

Survivability is definitely the pure tempest's weakness. But the only way to really solve this is by splashing 15 paladin, and that's not really a build I'm interested in. This build is still survivable, but it's certainly not invincible.

I have 21 PRR from past lives and take Toughness + Epic Toughness I don't have that problem. My point is that there are a few alternative build choices other then 15 Paladin.

[CThruTheEgo]

I have 21 PRR from past lives and take Toughness + Epic Toughness I don't have that problem. My point is that there are a few alternative build choices other then 15 Paladin.

You're right, there are other options.

[Jasparion]

Im planning a Dwarf Pure Ranger using DAxes so I assume it can be built identically to the Human using the bonus feat on Khopesh?

Thanks.

[CThruTheEgo]

Im planning a Dwarf Pure Ranger using DAxes so I assume it can be built identically to the Human using the bonus feat on Khopesh?

Thanks.

Yeah, I don't see why not. You lose human damage boost, but free up 1 AP and gain 2 starting con. Everything else can stay exactly the same if you want it to.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

I like dance of death, but find getting the proper positioning to get max value out of it to be annoying sometimes. Sometimes mobs just don't end up where you want them to at the right time. The twf hit box needs some serious adjusting imo. Despite its problems, though, dance of death is still a great AoE trash clearer.

honestly...dod is so good if that if it were any easier to use it would absolutely have to be nerfed.

in any case, you can get a lot more mileage out of it by aiming between two enemies that are semi close together. there is a surprising amount of leeway with this ability and you can hit things that are farther apart of you dont aim dead on at one thing always.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

You have two options with a thousand cuts. Either you save it for emergencies and use it as burst dps only, or you keep it on constant cooldown to maximize your use of it. It does make excellent burst dps, there's no doubt about that. If you keep it on constant cooldown, it adds an average of 5 doublestrike and 5 melee power. Many cuts is only 1 doublestrike and 1 melee power lower than that, so it's a minor loss for more consistent dps and less clicky management. Either one is a solid option, it just depends on your preference. I prefer greater consistency and less clicky management.

ive found that 1k cuts leads to faster completion time with only semi frequent use.

and it definitely makes boss fights much easier, faster, and more fun. the loss of double strike and mp while 1k cuts is chosen and not active is not really noticeable when fighting trash.

[CThruTheEgo]

honestly...dod is so good if that if it were any easier to use it would absolutely have to be nerfed.

in any case, you can get a lot more mileage out of it by aiming between two enemies that are semi close together. there is a surprising amount of leeway with this ability and you can hit things that are farther apart of you dont aim dead on at one thing always.

I've noticed that as well. Swinging at the air between two mobs gets better results than focusing on only one.

I find when I'm grouping with others who also try to keep mobs in a tight group, then I can fairly consistently hit four mobs. But sometimes combat just gets chaotic, or mob agro/AI is just wonky and enemies end up split up all over the place. It's times like those when I struggle to get good mileage out of DoD. And I don't necessarily feel like this build has the survivability to be the one grabbing all the agro to keep mobs together in the first place.

[CThruTheEgo]

ive found that 1k cuts leads to faster completion time with only semi frequent use.

and it definitely makes boss fights much easier, faster, and more fun. the loss of double strike and mp while 1k cuts is chosen and not active is not really noticeable when fighting trash.

Another problem with 1k cuts is that melee doublestrike does nothing above 100%. With full stacks of zeal and killer I'm at 94% doublestrike. Now that killer fades one stack at a time, it is a much more persistent buff than it used to be. So there is definitely a time when 1k cuts wouldn't add much. You could, however, activate 1k cuts after you've lost enough stacks of zeal/killer and end up keeping your doublestrike up for a longer period of time, but that requires even more micromanagement, which I'm not a huge fan of. I can certainly see the advantage of 1k cuts in a boss fight, especially if there is no trash around to keep killer up.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

I've noticed that as well. Swinging at the air between two mobs gets better results than focusing on only one.

I find when I'm grouping with others who also try to keep mobs in a tight group, then I can fairly consistently hit four mobs. But sometimes combat just gets chaotic, or mob agro/AI is just wonky and enemies end up split up all over the place. It's times like those when I struggle to get good mileage out of DoD. And I don't necessarily feel like this build has the survivability to be the one grabbing all the agro to keep mobs together in the first place.

personally, i think the real pita is the fact that you wait until all the melees have run to you, during which time you are taking some melee dmg and some ranged dmg, then you hit dod and obliterate all the melee trash in 4 seconds or less, and then its kinda meh against the archers.

Another problem with 1k cuts is that melee doublestrike does nothing above 100%. With full stacks of zeal and killer I'm at 94% doublestrike. Now that killer fades one stack at a time, it is a much more persistent buff than it used to be. So there is definitely a time when 1k cuts wouldn't add much. You could, however, activate 1k cuts after you've lost enough stacks of zeal/killer and end up keeping your doublestrike up for a longer period of time, but that requires even more micromanagement, which I'm not a huge fan of. I can certainly see the advantage of 1k cuts in a boss fight, especially if there is no trash around to keep killer up.

i forgot you use dc, i play pretty much exclusively in ld. in which case i guess yea it makes more sense not to go overboard with 1k cuts.

[CThruTheEgo]

personally, i think the real pita is the fact that you wait until all the melees have run to you, during which time you are taking some melee dmg and some ranged dmg, then you hit dod and obliterate all the melee trash in 4 seconds or less, and then its kinda meh against the archers.

Yeah there seems to be some quests where you just don't get a lot of mileage out of DoD, and others where it's invaluable. It's great in ToEE where mobs are grouped tightly together a dozen at a time and you can literally just mow straight through them.

Archers are definitely annoying. They seem to stand just far enough apart that you can't quite reach both.

[CThruTheEgo]

Looking for ways to improve the build's survivability, I decided to drop evasive dance, elaborate parry, and 1 rank each of improved reaction and improved dodge. That freed up 8 AP which I spent on survivalist 3, improved parry, and improved defense. Improved evasion isn't really needed and so far I haven't missed it. Elaborate parry is a great "oh ****" button, but I find I don't need it as much with better defenses. So 1% miss chance is a reasonable loss for a net gain of 30 hp, 18 PRR, 3 MRR, and deflect arrows every 2 seconds instead of 6.

I've also considered dropping some combination of dodge, mobility, and spring attack for some combination of two weapon defense, toughness, and epic toughness. Losing spring attack results in a net loss of another 1% total miss chance. Losing mobility results in a net loss of 3% total miss chance from the current 48%. Losing dodge results in a net loss of 5% total miss chance from the current 48%. Two weapon defense would add another 1% damage mitigation. Currently, I'm thinking it is worth it to trade spring attack for two weapon defense. I'm not sure where I stand regarding dodge/mobility vs toughness/epic toughness. It's basically 4% miss chance vs 80 hp. Losing dodge also means dropping improved reaction and improved dodge, thus freeing up another 2 AP. I'd probably spend those on human improved recovery for another 20 heal amp. Alternatively, I could drop mobility/spring attack for toughness/epic toughness, trading 3% miss chance for 80 hp.

I'd be interested to know what others think of these options, or any other suggestions.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Looking for ways to improve the build's survivability, I decided to drop evasive dance, elaborate parry, and 1 rank each of improved reaction and improved dodge. That freed up 8 AP which I spent on survivalist 3, improved parry, and improved defense. Improved evasion isn't really needed and so far I haven't missed it. Elaborate parry is a great "oh ****" button, but I find I don't need it as much with better defenses. So 1% miss chance is a reasonable loss for a net gain of 30 hp, 18 PRR, 3 MRR, and deflect arrows every 2 seconds instead of 6.

I've also considered dropping some combination of dodge, mobility, and spring attack for some combination of two weapon defense, toughness, and epic toughness. Losing spring attack results in a net loss of another 1% total miss chance. Losing mobility results in a net loss of 3% total miss chance from the current 48%. Losing dodge results in a net loss of 5% total miss chance from the current 48%. Two weapon defense would add another 1% damage mitigation. Currently, I'm thinking it is worth it to trade spring attack for two weapon defense. I'm not sure where I stand regarding dodge/mobility vs toughness/epic toughness. It's basically 4% miss chance vs 80 hp. Losing dodge also means dropping improved reaction and improved dodge, thus freeing up another 2 AP. I'd probably spend those on human improved recovery for another 20 heal amp. Alternatively, I could drop mobility/spring attack for toughness/epic toughness, trading 3% miss chance for 80 hp.

I'd be interested to know what others think of these options, or any other suggestions.

i think picking up the prr and better deflect arrows were good moves (i didnt have survivalist 3 but the other prr i did), and add a lot of survivability over just a slightly higher miss chance. however, im not sure id switch feats for twf defense, and definitely not for toughnesses. hp is a highly overrated stat, imo. as long as you have sufficient hp that you arent getting bursted down very often you dont need more, and i dont consider hp as a true defense against anything except burst dmg, otherwise it is something to be defended and usually not worth over investing into.