The Divine Cuisinart: A dual khopesh wielding pure tempest ranger in divine crusader

[CThruTheEgo]

Also.. did you forget you changed your alignment? The Epic Litany is going to bite you in the ass now

I missed this edit. I did forget about the penalty for wearing Epic Litany as a good aligned character, but it's relatively small overall. The dps gain against current endgame mobs should be worth it imo.

Have you thought about a reconfigure for using Full Plate? I gotta say, I've gotten spoiled with the PRR of TF Full Plate

Full plate is not worth the investment anymore, even more so with the upcoming changes.

Any reason not to run my double completionist as a dex version of this using TF/ToEE scims or rapiers? Not worried about finesse feat. Been running a lot of builds with 10 str and hit fine, except in level 31+ content.

Anything you'd change?

I'll probably ETR and run it as str build, but cores felt to strong to pass up.

With the upcoming balance changes, many things might be thrown into question. I don't want to speculate too much since those changes are still subject to change before going live. But I'm sure I'll have some comments on the pros/cons of str vs dex based and khopesh vs rapier/scimitar after the balance changes go live.

What should I give up to slot completionist? Spring Attack? It's the only thing striking me, but I want all the dex and con I can squeeze in since I am not going strength.

Again, this is dependent upon changes that are not yet written in stone, but I'm considering dropping imp crit ranged. About the only time I intended to use ranged was for manyshot anyway, and the proposed changes will basically kill manyshot for tempests. Melee dps was already so good that switching to manyshot in its current form is questionable, but after the balance changes go live, there's no question it won't be worth it. So if you're looking to fit completionist, imp crit ranged is probably the first feat I'd be looking at dropping (again, dependent on what actually goes live with the balance changes).

[the_one_dwarfforged]

I missed this edit. I did forget about the penalty for wearing Epic Litany as a good aligned character, but it's relatively small overall. The dps gain against current endgame mobs should be worth it imo.

neg level from litany is only -5 hp and -1 saves (and probably -1 atk or skills or something) iirc.

havent used it with a neg level since centered kenseis were a thing, so i might be remembering wrong.

[RS-Makk]

It's time for me to TR/re-spec and I'm debating what to do next. It's a character that started as an 'Exploiter' build way back before Tempest got the speed nerf. Has stayed TWF thorough (variety of MC mixes). Latest life was actually your Santa's Little Slayer (has been lots of fun). I was debating between a 15/5 pally ranger or a swashbuckler (was thinking a PDK freezing build), but then the updates to TWF came out and am now thinking a pure ranger as the one you outline may be a nice way to wrap him up. (Decisions....)

Some thoughts and questions;

First, I'm thinking of rolling a dex based version. Scimitars, and dropping IC:Ranged. Frees up two feats allowing me to do both your Dodge+Mobility+Spring Attack, as well as probably Toughness + Epic Toughness. By my math, I can get the damage mod a few points higher than the Str based. I need to run some numbers but rough math puts DPS will be in same ballpark (I think).

My question is about survivability. How are you doing on EE content? On my end I'm about doing with my journey to Epic Completionist, so I'll likely sit at cap and will want to start grinding out more top level gear. So I'll want to do more EE, and that likely also means trying to solo some content when grinding out stuff (like ingredients for ToEE, for example).

[adrian69]

It's time for me to TR/re-spec and I'm debating what to do next. It's a character that started as an 'Exploiter' build way back before Tempest got the speed nerf. Has stayed TWF thorough (variety of MC mixes). Latest life was actually your Santa's Little Slayer (has been lots of fun). I was debating between a 15/5 pally ranger or a swashbuckler (was thinking a PDK freezing build), but then the updates to TWF came out and am now thinking a pure ranger as the one you outline may be a nice way to wrap him up. (Decisions....)

Some thoughts and questions;

First, I'm thinking of rolling a dex based version. Scimitars, and dropping IC:Ranged. Frees up two feats allowing me to do both your Dodge+Mobility+Spring Attack, as well as probably Toughness + Epic Toughness. By my math, I can get the damage mod a few points higher than the Str based. I need to run some numbers but rough math puts DPS will be in same ballpark (I think).

My question is about survivability. How are you doing on EE content? On my end I'm about doing with my journey to Epic Completionist, so I'll likely sit at cap and will want to start grinding out more top level gear. So I'll want to do more EE, and that likely also means trying to solo some content when grinding out stuff (like ingredients for ToEE, for example).

I'm working on posting a dex based tempest or dws. haven't decided which is better yet, but this is a good build and dex isn't going to be a lot different. You're trading out 1 crit multiplier off the Khophesh and picking up another feat.

[CThruTheEgo]

It's time for me to TR/re-spec and I'm debating what to do next. It's a character that started as an 'Exploiter' build way back before Tempest got the speed nerf. Has stayed TWF thorough (variety of MC mixes). Latest life was actually your Santa's Little Slayer (has been lots of fun). I was debating between a 15/5 pally ranger or a swashbuckler (was thinking a PDK freezing build), but then the updates to TWF came out and am now thinking a pure ranger as the one you outline may be a nice way to wrap him up. (Decisions....)

I'm glad to hear you enjoyred Santa's Little Slayer. It was a fun build.

First, I'm thinking of rolling a dex based version. Scimitars, and dropping IC:Ranged. Frees up two feats allowing me to do both your Dodge+Mobility+Spring Attack, as well as probably Toughness + Epic Toughness. By my math, I can get the damage mod a few points higher than the Str based. I need to run some numbers but rough math puts DPS will be in same ballpark (I think).

Out of curiousity, what would be the breakdown on your dex?

In general, khopesh comes out ahead of scimitar by 2 hits based on a 15-20x4 crit profile for khopesh and 13-20x3 crit profile for scimitar. So yeah, they are pretty close. Scimitar has an advantage for on crit effects also, but I haven't done the calcs to see how that closes the gap.

My question is about survivability. How are you doing on EE content? On my end I'm about doing with my journey to Epic Completionist, so I'll likely sit at cap and will want to start grinding out more top level gear. So I'll want to do more EE, and that likely also means trying to solo some content when grinding out stuff (like ingredients for ToEE, for example).

To be honest, I haven't played this character much since the update. I've been focused on my warlock recently. So I don't honestly know about survivability in EE content. I've got my warlock close to where I want him to be, so I'll probably shift back to this character soon. But until then, I can't really say.

[relenttless]

Been playing this build now for a week and I like it. The acid test of course will come in epic levels but so far - lvl 11-my little ranger rocks. The single target dps is impressive, can't wait to pull out the 6 (or is it 8?) greensteel khopeses I have waiting for her. Solo'd TOEE prt 1 he at lvl 9which I felt was decent.
I might screw around with the feats...not sure about maximise and quicken...as she is epic Completionist I might just use cocoon and stick with empower heal. Tried know the angles but was not impressed, I guess its not worth utilising until much later when int is as high as possible.
All in all, pretty good- thanks for the build.

[CThruTheEgo]

Been playing this build now for a week and I like it. The acid test of course will come in epic levels but so far - lvl 11-my little ranger rocks. The single target dps is impressive, can't wait to pull out the 6 (or is it 8?) greensteel khopeses I have waiting for her. Solo'd TOEE prt 1 he at lvl 9which I felt was decent.
I might screw around with the feats...not sure about maximise and quicken...as she is epic Completionist I might just use cocoon and stick with empower heal. Tried know the angles but was not impressed, I guess its not worth utilising until much later when int is as high as possible.
All in all, pretty good- thanks for the build.

Thanks. Glad you are enjoying the build.

Know the angles is definitely a late bloomer. On a build like this, it's usually the last thing I spend my AP on, and sometimes not even then if I don't have a decent int score.

Empower heal is definitely a viable alternative, especially if you intend to use cocoon.

[relenttless]

If I do a second life as this build, which I may well do, then I would also contemplate taking the human DragonMark early on in place of one the metas. I do love having d door, and the expeditious is very useful early on

[RS-Makk]

Out of curiousity, what would be the breakdown on your dex?

This was my math (on a 36 point build)

18 base
7 levels
6 tome
1 enhancement (from DWS)
11 item
4 insight (from Necklace Mystic Eidolons.. I don't have Shroud of Ardent yet.. I'll need to adjust down then)
1 exceptional
4 capstone
2 Yugo
2 profane
2 ship
-------
58 total (I don't think I missed anything did I?)

On hindsight, I guess it's actually kind of a wash with the strength numbers you have, since that was on a 34 point build, and you didn't include all the temp buffs (no rage or Yugo)

[CThruTheEgo]

This was my math (on a 36 point build)

18 base
7 levels
6 tome
1 enhancement (from DWS)
11 item
4 insight (from Necklace Mystic Eidolons.. I don't have Shroud of Ardent yet.. I'll need to adjust down then)
1 exceptional
4 capstone
2 Yugo
2 profane
2 ship
-------
58 total (I don't think I missed anything did I?)

On hindsight, I guess it's actually kind of a wash with the strength numbers you have, since that was on a 34 point build, and you didn't include all the temp buffs (no rage or Yugo)

Thanks for the breakdown. I was just wondering how they compared.

[RS-Makk]

Thanks for the breakdown. I was just wondering how they compared.

Given how things stand today, what's your opinion on a Dex based version (scimitars)?

[CThruTheEgo]

Given how things stand today, what's your opinion on a Dex based version (scimitars)?

I've not done a full comparison of str vs dex, khopesh vs scimitar after the balance pass, but I don't think my opinion has changed much. Str and dex would be about the same. Khopesh is slightly ahead of scimitar. That makes str based with khopesh the higher dps option. Dex based, on the other hand gets a higher reflex save, but the str version still ends up with a decent reflex save. Dex based might end up with more hp, if you take toughness/epic toughness as you mentioned. Overall, I'd probably lean toward str based with khopesh, but I tend to emphasize dps once I feel like defenses are good enough.

[rangerless]

Thanks for response, I have not checked the APs

i have one question do you need 14 wisdom for spells cause i got confused when you put 14 for int. do you mean in wisdom?

[CThruTheEgo]

i have one question do you need 14 wisdom for spells cause i got confused when you put 14 for int. do you mean in wisdom?

You do need 14 wisdom to cast level 4 ranger spells, but that can be reached with a starting wisdom of 8 and a +6 wisdom item, which is easily obtainable by the time you can cast level 4 spells.

Boosting int is to get greater benefit from know the angles from the harper tree. Know the angles allows you to apply half of your int bonus to your damage. So with a 38 int, your int modifier is 14, which provides +7 damage with know the angles.

[AbyssalMage]

Boosting int is to get greater benefit from know the angles from the harper tree. Know the angles allows you to apply half of your int bonus to your damage. So with a 38 int, your int modifier is 14, which provides +7 damage with know the angles.

What is the minimum investment of Intelligence where KtA becomes an acceptable investment? I plan on doing another Ranger Build soon and trying to figure out the "finer details" of the build I am going to settle on.

~ 36 pt. Build ~
14 Int (Base)
+3 Tome (not buying from the store and a +4, or better, hasn't dropped for me )
+8 Item
+2 Insight
+1 Exceptional

So that is only +30 if I add Yugo Pot's. So should I just skip KtA for now?

[the_one_dwarfforged]

What is the minimum investment of Intelligence where KtA becomes an acceptable investment? I plan on doing another Ranger Build soon and trying to figure out the "finer details" of the build I am going to settle on.

~ 36 pt. Build ~
14 Int (Base)
+3 Tome (not buying from the store and a +4, or better, hasn't dropped for me )
+8 Item
+2 Insight
+1 Exceptional

So that is only +30 if I add Yugo Pot's. So should I just skip KtA for now?

in my opinion, kta is a very rewarding build option that doesnt take terribly much investment. is there a certain point where your int isnt high enough to warrant spending the few ap on it? possibly, but its so easy to get a decent int. and its not like as a ranger theres much else to spend the build points on. the most important thing to think about beforehand really is whether you will end up wasting some of your int investment by having a bad number of int score (you want it to be a score so that the modifier divided by two is a whole number: 14, 18, 22, 26, 30, 34, 38, 42, 46, 50).

your breakdown getting you to only 30 int seems quite shocking though, to me.

on my main character which is currently running a pure ranger tempest, i am achieving 42 int without breaking a sweat.

16 base
5 tome
11 item
2 insight
1 exceptional
2 ship buffs
2 spooky
2 completionist
2 profane

that is actually putting me at 43 int because of the tome being +5 (though i looted it so not complaining its making my stats odd :/).

acquiring an epic litany is honeslty very easy, easier than acquiring a heroic one tbh. just post a group for mod x 20 and people will probably join, and depending on how much time people spend between runs doing other things, you can get every run done in 10 minutes or less for a very quick pick up.

the spooky aug you wont be able to farm for now, but it was very easy to acquire. if you didnt get one, ask one of your unemployed friends who plays ddo too much (we all have one).

11 int is an easy decision to slot on a kta build for me, as opposed to just using an aug. i really like the epic eye of the beholder, as it has 11 int and 250 sp saving you from having to slot that.

completionist, obviously you either have it or dont and plan around that.

i would not use int yugo pots, because they give you a -50% fort penalty. that is a staggering penalty for +2 int (it was intended for use by wf wizzies and pms...both of which have high fort, but screws over modern int builds). if the int from a yugo pot was taking you from a bad int to a good int for kta purposes, i would either find another way to raise my int or just lower my starting int.

the stacking int from the remnant trade in pots is an option, but i dont really like the thought of always putting a tax on my remnant total (unless you already have all the remnant tomes, in which case theres no other use for remnants).


long story short: raise your starting int by 2, dont forget ship buffs = +1 more dmg from kta than you thought you had.


even if you absolutely refused to invest more than an afterthought into your int but still had kta, so lets say you are getting +4 dmg from it, thats still a pretty good bonus. people will spend 2 item slots gearing their characters with old ml 18/20 item sets for +2 or +4 dmg, because when it gets multiplied by mp it becomes quite a bit more. and its being applied by not just your mainhand, but you main hand with your double strike, and your offhand at full rpoc chance, and your offhand double strike. a little dmg goes a long way on pure ranger.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Gear Set:
Weapons: mainhand: Thunder-Forged Khopesh (1st degree burns/dragon's edge/mortal fear/red slotted meteoric star ruby/colorless slotted heal15)
offhand: Epic Energized Khopesh (electric vulnerability/greater maiming/greater electric storm/greater shocking burst/purple slotted devotion138/set: melee power20/ranged power20/spell power20)

apparently the elemental vulnerability overrides or cancels or prevents stacking of regular vulnerability (eth had posted about this somewhere). i havent tested this, but given that information i slotted 150 devtion as t1 on all my khopeshes for my mainhand on my pure ranger.

[unbongwah]

What is the minimum investment of Intelligence where KtA becomes an acceptable investment?

It's all about tradeoffs & opportunity costs; i.e., what would you spend your APs on instead which is more valuable than Harper Enchantment, Know the Angles, and/or Versatile Adept? OP goes 47 APs Tempest, 24 APs DWS, 8 APs Harper, 1 AP human; but one could just as easily do 41 APs Tempest, 31 APs DWS (Mark of the Hunted), 7 APs Harper, 1 AP human; or 41 APs Tempest, 24 APs DWS, 14 APs Harper (+6 Versatile Adept), 1 AP human.

[CThruTheEgo]

What is the minimum investment of Intelligence where KtA becomes an acceptable investment? I plan on doing another Ranger Build soon and trying to figure out the "finer details" of the build I am going to settle on.

~ 36 pt. Build ~
14 Int (Base)
+3 Tome (not buying from the store and a +4, or better, hasn't dropped for me )
+8 Item
+2 Insight
+1 Exceptional

So that is only +30 if I add Yugo Pot's. So should I just skip KtA for now?

As the_one_dwarfforged pointed out, know the angles adds to your base damage, which means it applies to both your mainhand and offhand (100% strike chance on a tempest), and is affected by crits, doublestrike (both mainhand and offhand), and melee power. So altogether, it will add a decent amount of average damage.

It costs 8 AP to get full ranks of know the angles, so weigh that 8 AP (including what you gain by unlocking know the angles) against what else you would spend them on. Overall, for a pure tempest, I think it's a good investment.

the most important thing to think about beforehand really is whether you will end up wasting some of your int investment by having a bad number of int score (you want it to be a score so that the modifier divided by two is a whole number: 14, 18, 22, 26, 30, 34, 38, 42, 46, 50).

^Definitely this.

acquiring an epic litany is honeslty very easy, easier than acquiring a heroic one tbh. just post a group for mod x 20 and people will probably join, and depending on how much time people spend between runs doing other things, you can get every run done in 10 minutes or less for a very quick pick up.

I'm not sure I'd agree with this. It is easier than acquiring a heroic one, but for a lot of players I don't think getting an epic litany is that easy. If you have a guild that runs MoD regularly, then it's easy to get. If you are able to lead it, then yeah you can pug it, but I've often found pugs to be much messier and completion is more questionable unless you know who you're running with. So if you're in the right circles on your server, then pugging it is an option. Either way, it's still going to cost you 20 raid timers since there's barely more than a 0% chance that you'll get it from the end chest. This is probably a more long term goal for most players, but it is definitely a reachable goal.

i would not use int yugo pots, because they give you a -50% fort penalty. that is a staggering penalty for +2 int (it was intended for use by wf wizzies and pms...both of which have high fort, but screws over modern int builds). if the int from a yugo pot was taking you from a bad int to a good int for kta purposes, i would either find another way to raise my int or just lower my starting int.

Agreed. I'd only use Yugo int pots on a DC based build.

the stacking int from the remnant trade in pots is an option, but i dont really like the thought of always putting a tax on my remnant total (unless you already have all the remnant tomes, in which case theres no other use for remnants).

Agreed. Even if I did have everything else from remnants, we have been told that more stuff will be added over time, so I'd rather save them than spend them on such a minor benefit.

a little dmg goes a long way on pure ranger.

^This. Tempests get more benefit that most out of additional damage.

apparently the elemental vulnerability overrides or cancels or prevents stacking of regular vulnerability (eth had posted about this somewhere). i havent tested this, but given that information i slotted 150 devtion as t1 on all my khopeshes for my mainhand on my pure ranger.

I figured they wouldn't stack, but hadn't really considered what other options there were. 150 devotion is probably the best choice. Thanks for pointing this out.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

I'm not sure I'd agree with this. It is easier than acquiring a heroic one, but for a lot of players I don't think getting an epic litany is that easy. If you have a guild that runs MoD regularly, then it's easy to get. If you are able to lead it, then yeah you can pug it, but I've often found pugs to be much messier and completion is more questionable unless you know who you're running with. So if you're in the right circles on your server, then pugging it is an option. Either way, it's still going to cost you 20 raid timers since there's barely more than a 0% chance that you'll get it from the end chest. This is probably a more long term goal for most players, but it is definitely a reachable goal.

i recently needed to farm out 18 mods for an item that i finally decided i needed (never needed them before, but decided i wanted the gloves now) so i just posted an lfm. we filled pretty quick, most people stayed for the whole thing, and we were completing every run in under 10 minutes, and didnt fail on any runs. i think pugs can be pretty solid. i did have one or two people i knew with me at times, but mostly i didnt really know the people i was running with, and i didnt really "lead" it much either. most people know the raid, so i gave some bare bones assignments, explained the raid to one guy who had never run it before, and occasionally told someone what to do or not do, but mostly i just let people do their thing.

so unless you dont have access to the timers, yea i feel epic litany is so easy to get its funny. easier than eclaw set (the gloves shard is my mortal enemy). easier than getting the tor dragon helm you wanted. easier than sightless. tons easier than toee. and yet it is one of the most universally powerful items in the game.