Why do you hate Hirelings Devs?

[FranOhmsford]

From the Release Notes:

Ranged weapons have been added to many ranger and rogue hirelings, who will predominantly use them when Standing their Ground in aggressive mode while an enemy is outside of melee range:
Rangers: Tarlov Snowtrack (level 23)Rogues: Sullivan Tiehl (Level 20), Reaver (Level 14), Istrin Teken'ar (Level 11), Olivia Whurgan (Level 7), Talonia (Level 4)

1st) Many? Funny definition of many!

2nd) NONE of those Rogues are Mechanics?
Sullivan is an Assassin
Olivia, Istrin and Reaver are all Acrobats
Talonia has Haste Boost so is possibly also an Acrobat {Only Lvl 4 so no way to be certain}.

So of the FIVE Rogue Hirelings you've given Ranged Weapons to...THREE of them are EXCLUSIVELY Melee Builds?
Sullivan is the only one who may do decent Ranged Dmg {Decent for a Hireling that is}.

[hp1055cm]

Tell me about it. The only affected hireling I ever use is Tarlov (Who is actually ML 24 btw) and his DPS is now about 35% less than what it was before because he uses that f#%^*@ bow all the time now instead of TWF. He even uses the bow when he is in aggressive mode right next to an enemy. Heck, even when he switches to swords he only fights with one sword instead of 2.
It is almost comical watching him switch back and forth between sword and bow constantly like he can't decide whether to take a step closer or pull out his vendor-trash-class bow for a ranged attack.

The saddest part of all is even though he got nerfed he still does more DPS than any other hireling at that level range; he is just much less helpful than he was before.
Not worth the time or effort to bug report so just use hirelings less now.

[Damiarch]

The bug, with Tarlov is when he goes back to melee , only one sword comes out. Soon as the bow comes out his damage is crippled.
if he went back to 2 weapon melee I would be a-ok.

[blerkington]

Hi,


It might not be accurate to say the developers hate hirelings. After all, they seem to be trying to fix them. The problem is, the hirelings seem to get worse in some way every time they are adjusted.

If you can get to the point where you only need hirelings for a couple of very simple tasks, like lever pulling, light healing from a carefully positioned location, or a bit of trapping, the game gets much better. Being reliant on hirelings for anything more than that right now just seems like an exercise in constant, severe frustration.

I'm fairly certain that the main causes of lag in the game right now are dodgy AI and pathing. It seems like these things are constantly being fiddled around with, causing things to happen in game which are alternately comical and annoying, and it does affect hirelings too.

Thanks.

[FranOhmsford]

The saddest part of all is even though he got nerfed he still does more DPS than any other hireling at that level range;

It's been a long time since I bothered using either Tarlov or Sadiele in Epics but when I did she was way ahead of him in DPS!

Iessin is also a pretty good DPS hire {DPS Hire being a contradiction in terms I know}...It's just a pity about his trapping skills being sub-par!

[lyrecono]

From the Release Notes:



1st) Many? Funny definition of many!

2nd) NONE of those Rogues are Mechanics?
Sullivan is an Assassin
Olivia, Istrin and Reaver are all Acrobats
Talonia has Haste Boost so is possibly also an Acrobat {Only Lvl 4 so no way to be certain}.

So of the FIVE Rogue Hirelings you've given Ranged Weapons to...THREE of them are EXCLUSIVELY Melee Builds?
Sullivan is the only one who may do decent Ranged Dmg {Decent for a Hireling that is}.

They sit on your couch, eat your fod, drink your beer and don't pay for subscription

[dunklezhan]

The problem is, the hirelings seem to get worse in some way every time they are adjusted.

I would have to disagree with this. Aside from the blip just after the AI customisation update, I have found hirelings to be getting more and more reliable as time goes by. They're certainly more survivable than they were*. The one thing that does seem consistent over the years is the number of times they will bug out and refuse to fight without direct instruction - but since the recent updates where they fixed them charging off before you could stop them, I have found you can reset them the same way: put them on passive. teleport them to you. Wait for the cooldown, put them back to defensive or active or whatever you have them on. Its a pain, but at least you can fix it yourself when it happens now.

*applies to HH and EH only. If you're taking hirelings in on elite and not micromanaging them, what on earth do you expect to happen?

[FranOhmsford]

They sit on your couch, eat your fod, drink your beer and don't pay for subscription

I'm sorry but I don't get the reference.

Also...Why would I want to fod them?

I would have to disagree with this. Aside from the blip just after the AI customisation update, I have found hirelings to be getting more and more reliable as time goes by. They're certainly more survivable than they were*. The one thing that does seem consistent over the years is the number of times they will bug out and refuse to fight without direct instruction - but since the recent updates where they fixed them charging off before you could stop them, I have found you can reset them the same way: put them on passive. teleport them to you. Wait for the cooldown, put them back to defensive or active or whatever you have them on. Its a pain, but at least you can fix it yourself when it happens now.

*applies to HH and EH only. If you're taking hirelings in on elite and not micromanaging them, what on earth do you expect to happen?

Hirelings work fine for me on Heroic Elite and always have done!

It's not the difficulty of the quest that's the problem with hirelings these days - It's all the glitches in the Hireling's UI! It's the requirement to "micro-manage" them all the time because you never know when they're gonna bug out!

Hirelings have always had to be micro-managed - Keep them out of lava, away from traps/mobs etc. Having to micro-manage their bugs as well cannot be WAI!


BTW They are more survivable now because of the update that upped their HPs to in some cases be higher than a player! {I've had Lvl 20 Paladins with less HPs than Albus!}.

Albus especially is much better now just because of Player HPs going up! {Nothing to do with Hirelings whatsoever!} Back in Pre MotU times I wouldn't use Albus because I'd never get a Heal in time before I died!
Now with more HPs I get that Heal!

Wyoh was a better choice pre MotU than Albus for me by a long long way!
Post MotU and the Hireling Update Wyoh is less squishy than she was back then BUT her Implosion is not as good as it was back then {It still works from time to time but the Teleport cooldown means that I can't get her to use it anywhere near as often!}.

Also Wyoh's Implosion is literally only good enough for Heroic Elites and low level Epic Norms {Once you're on to EHs she's just a squishy Healer.}.

Albus is still decent on EH because of his HPs and the fact he has Mass Deathward puts him way ahead of the Epic FavSoul Hires...Selis, Luna & Brec and just ahead of Andaro!

I'd still take Wyoh over Selis but from Lvl 22 she's 3rd Choice behind Albus and Luna!

[lyrecono]

I'm sorry but I don't get the reference.

Also...Why would I want to fod them?

oops, i meant food instead of fod

anyway, "they take up dev time while not getting them much money" was what i was referring to

[FranOhmsford]

oops, i meant food instead of fod

anyway, "they take up dev time while not getting them much money" was what i was referring to

Not getting Turbine much money?

Are you kidding?

I'd hazard a guess that Gold Seal Hires are one of if not the biggest seller in the Store DESPITE the Hireling issues!

Why else would the Devs have made Heroic Rogue Hires GS Only when they moved the previous GS only hires to plat vendors?


Also - Hirelings keep new and unskilled players playing longer!
They keep players involved in the game long enough to get those players paying MONEY!

We know there's multiple players who will buy entire groups of Hirelings to run with them! These players are rare on the forums {though some of them have posted on numerous occasions} but they do exist! {Heck I've done it back in 2010-2011 on a number of occasions!}.

Fixing Hirelings would make Turbine a tonne of cash!

[lyrecono]

Not getting Turbine much money?

Are you kidding?
No
I'd hazard a guess that Gold Seal Hires are one of if not the biggest seller in the Store DESPITE the Hireling issues!
unfounded claim
Why else would the Devs have made Heroic Rogue Hires GS Only when they moved the previous GS only hires to plat vendors?
speculation

Also - Hirelings keep new and unskilled players playing longer!
or frustrated because other players look down on them for using them, to be fair, it's often regarded as a crutch
They keep players involved in the game long enough to get those players paying MONEY!
i assume or guess new players are low on tp(f2p), plat or information, why would they buy them?
We know there's multiple players who will buy entire groups of Hirelings to run with them! These players are rare on the forums {though some of them have posted on numerous occasions} but they do exist! {Heck I've done it back in 2010-2011 on a number of occasions!}.
Yes, i actually met one this week, ran feast (heroic gh) wirh 3 hires in the same time it took my group to do all of the gh walk-ups incl cruisible, no joke.
He had an lfm up for the same stuff as we did but he refused to join because we didn't have a healer
Why would you put yourself through that?

Fixing Hirelings would make Turbine a tonne of cash!

i don't know, without accurate numbers it's all speculation.
I can only go with my own experiences but i only see rog hire used by tr vets that want their extra exp and even then it's only at a very select&rare number of quests.
I pug on a daily basis (besides guild/channel runs, i rarely see people using hires these days, pop, for the switch and a fighter hire for ddoor at best.
then again, that's just my view on my server.

[FranOhmsford]

i don't know, without accurate numbers it's all speculation.
I can only go with my own experiences but i only see rog hire used by tr vets that want their extra exp and even then it's only at a very select&rare number of quests.
I pug on a daily basis (besides guild/channel runs, i rarely see people using hires these days, pop, for the switch and a fighter hire for ddoor at best.
then again, that's just my view on my server.

As you've pointed out players who use multiple hires AREN'T Grouping anyway!

So you're not going to see them very often. They just get on with their playing. {Again I've ran a full group of hirelings myself before on more than one occasion when I was new so I'm talking from experience here.}.

I pug regularly too and I still see plenty of players pull hirelings - I had two players join me just yesterday and BOTH pulled hireling Clerics without asking me even though I hadn't pulled one myself {Not that I minded but it would be nice to be asked.}.
I've also had players see me with a hireling and pull their own as well - FYI two hirelings can get in each others way and work worse than having just one!

As for Rogue Hires - There's enough Splash Trappers around that anyone who's actually in a group is unlikely to need a Rogue Hire in the first place.
So just because you're not seeing people using them other than for Extra XP doesn't mean they aren't being used!

You call my claims unfounded even though I deliberately stated "hazard a guess" then make personal view claims yourself that support your argument - You can't have it both ways...If you'll only accept absolute facts from me then you should only bring absolute facts to the discussion yourself.

And on just numbers of sales alone {not amount of tp per sale} I'd say that Hireling sales are going to be very high on the list indeed - Up there with Spirit Cakes, Mnem Pots and XP Pots!

[lyrecono]

As you've pointed out players who use multiple hires AREN'T Grouping anyway!

So you're not going to see them very often. They just get on with their playing. {Again I've ran a full group of hirelings myself before on more than one occasion when I was new so I'm talking from experience here.}.

I pug regularly too and I still see plenty of players pull hirelings - I had two players join me just yesterday and BOTH pulled hireling Clerics without asking me even though I hadn't pulled one myself {Not that I minded but it would be nice to be asked.}.
I've also had players see me with a hireling and pull their own as well - FYI two hirelings can get in each others way and work worse than having just one!

As for Rogue Hires - There's enough Splash Trappers around that anyone who's actually in a group is unlikely to need a Rogue Hire in the first place.
So just because you're not seeing people using them other than for Extra XP doesn't mean they aren't being used!

You call my claims unfounded even though I deliberately stated "hazard a guess" then make personal view claims yourself that support your argument - You can't have it both ways...If you'll only accept absolute facts from me then you should only bring absolute facts to the discussion yourself.

And on just numbers of sales alone {not amount of tp per sale} I'd say that Hireling sales are going to be very high on the list indeed - Up there with Spirit Cakes, Mnem Pots and XP Pots!

The first "claim" is unfounded the second was a guess.
then you continue on with more opinions that you claim are facts.
From what i see around me, exp stones, sp-pots, soverein heal pots, and shards are being used a lot, does that mean those are being sold the most? there is no way i can claim that as fact because i have no evidence to support that claim. That's why i said it was my opinion. Personal testimonies are the worst thing you can bring to support an idea, assuming it is not a lie or a delusion (or some other reason involved that twists your view on reality), even the sales numbers could be changed or interpreted the wrong way by people who don't understand how to correctly read them.
That's why i said that your claims are unfounded, you have no sales numbers to support it.


As for your funny statement, what did you mean with "absolute" facts?