NEW Iconic Pack : Monstous Humanoids

[Enderoc]

Drow from those modules were Clerics of Lolth! {Or Lloth if you prefer}.
{Don't give me that Rogue Spin again - Dwarf Rogue may have been allowed but it certainly wasn't Iconic!}.
.

I definitely could see a 2 arti/mechanic dwarf as totally iconic...maybe with 6 levels of ranger in DWS for good measure. Dwarves might be stereotyped as stout Vikings, but I really think there would be some kind of archaeological adventurer types.

[FranOhmsford]

I definitely could see a 2 arti/mechanic dwarf as totally iconic...maybe with 6 levels of ranger in DWS for good measure. Dwarves might be stereotyped as stout Vikings, but I really think there would be some kind of archaeological adventurer types.

Arti fits Gnome {Svirfneblin and Tinker especially} far more than it does Dwarf.

Rogue - We already have Shadar-Kai and we all know who the REAL Iconic Hobbit is! {Not to mention Tasslehoff Burrfoot and many many others!}.

[Uska]

I definitely could see a 2 arti/mechanic dwarf as totally iconic...maybe with 6 levels of ranger in DWS for good measure. Dwarves might be stereotyped as stout Vikings, but I really think there would be some kind of archaeological adventurer types.

How in the name of gary is that a iconic d&d character? And I don't know of where in d&d they are considered stout Vikings in d&d they are thought civilized not raiding barbarians and other thsn crossbows not ranged users

[Uska]

Drow from those modules were Clerics of Lolth! {Or Lloth if you prefer}.

They were EVIL!

There is no such thing as a Good Iconic Drow Cleric!

In fact the only actual Iconic Drow is a Fighter/Ranger/Barb hybrid that would have been disallowed by the rules of the game in BOTH 1st and 2nd Ed. {Only Humans could Dual Class after all!}.
Supposedly Salvatore actually played D&D but he sure didn't play by the Rules!



We already have H-Orcs in game so any Iconic should be a FULL Orc! {Barb is fine though Eberron wise Druid would suit too....I've given Druid to Hobgoblins though}.

Dwarves have always been Fighters - Every single one of the 13 in the Hobbit was a Fighter, Gimli was a Fighter, Bruenor Battlehammer is a Fighter, Fighter/Clerics, Clerics and Barbs - Thibbledorf Pwent {sp} is the definition of a Dwarven Battlerager {Don't give me that Rogue Spin again - Dwarf Rogue may have been allowed but it certainly wasn't Iconic!}.

The Dwarf Battle Cleric is by far the most iconic of those four!



You didn't like Iconics in the first place so that's not a surprise.

But let's face it sooner or later we're going to get more Iconics so let's make sure the Devs don't do a Morninglord on us again and Make an Iconic Elven Cleric of a Human Deity with +2 Int {The absolute definition of Non-Iconic!}.

We desperately need a Cleric Iconic {Battle Cleric for preference} and as we already have an Elven "Iconic" Cleric and Drow Clerics are uniformly Chaotic Evil let's make this one a Dwarf for variety! {+ Wis also fits better on Dwarves than on any Elf!}.

Wrong on good drow clerics ellistrae or however you spell it is a good drow goddess and I don't see us getting more Iconics.

[FranOhmsford]

Wrong on good drow clerics ellistrae or however you spell it is a good drow goddess and I don't see us getting more Iconics.

Eilistraee is DEAD!

Yet another thing wrong with current D&D!

But Eilistraee at her most powerful only had a handful of worshippers and even less actual Clerics! {Drizz't btw worshipped http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mielikki!}.

AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S ICONIC HERE!
Drow Clerics of Elistraee are about as far from Iconic as you can get without being an Int Based Elf Cleric of a Human Deity {No I'm never going to leave THAT alone!}.


Also for someone who professes to loathe the Realms with a passion why would you bring up a barely known by anyone other than her Worshippers {who have to stay hidden at all times anyway} Demi-Goddess that is Realms based and not even heard of in Greyhawk?

How in the name of Gary is that a iconic d&d character? And I don't know of where in d&d they are considered stout Vikings in d&d they are thought civilized not raiding barbarians and other thsn crossbows not ranged users

You don't know where they are considered Stout Vikings?

Pretty much EVERYWHERE!

Bruenor Battlehammer and his Clan are absolute archetypes!
The 13 Dwarves in the Hobbit {LotR I know but the BASIS for all D&D Dwarves!}. Gimli too!
Flint in Dragonlance! - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fl...FcxpPgody3UNOA


Vikings is the wrong term really but used because everyone knows the image.
Norsemen would suit better as we're not talking about the Looting and Pillaging aspects here but about the Dwarven Gods being incredibly similar to those of the Vikings!

[Uska]

Eilistraee is DEAD!

Yet another thing wrong with current D&D!

But Eilistraee at her most powerful only had a handful of worshippers and even less actual Clerics! {Drizz't btw worshipped http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mielikki!}.

AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S ICONIC HERE!
Drow Clerics of Elistraee are about as far from Iconic as you can get without being an Int Based Elf Cleric of a Human Deity {No I'm never going to leave THAT alone!}.


Also for someone who professes to loathe the Realms with a passion why would you bring up a barely known by anyone other than her Worshippers {who have to stay hidden at all times anyway} Demi-Goddess that is Realms based and not even heard of in Greyhawk?



You don't know where they are considered Stout Vikings?

Pretty much EVERYWHERE!

Bruenor Battlehammer and his Clan are absolute archetypes!
The 13 Dwarves in the Hobbit {LotR I know but the BASIS for all D&D Dwarves!}. Gimli too!
Flint in Dragonlance! - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fl...FcxpPgody3UNOA


Vikings is the wrong term really but used because everyone knows the image.
Norsemen would suit better as we're not talking about the Looting and Pillaging aspects here but about the Dwarven Gods being incredibly similar to those of the Vikings!

someone here on the forums brought her up a long time ago and I remembered

as to dwarves its the first time in over 40 years of d&d I have heard it ever

[FranOhmsford]

as to dwarves its the first time in over 40 years of d&d I have heard it ever

So you've never read the Dragonlance Chronicles? {Seriously Flint is about as Barbarian as you can get without being a Barb!}.

So you haven't noticed that every single one of the Dwarves in the Hobbit are Fighters? Always on the Road with no Home to go to but when they talk about home they're NOT talking about Civilization!
They're talking about Fortresses!

You haven't noticed that their personalities are based on perpetual War with Orcs and Goblins and therefore their ideals are based on the Warrior's Code!


I know you loathe The Realms so I'll let you off with Bruenor and the Battlehammer Clan but here's the 3 most famous examples:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wik...r_Battlehammer - Fighter {Maybe with Barbarian Kit}
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Thibbledorf_Pwent - Battlerager Barbarian {The Original D&D Frenzied Berserker!}.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wik...pet_Rakingclaw - BATTLE CLERIC! And brewer of awesome Mead! {Note Mead NOT Ale!}.



How about Dwarven Deities:

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Moradin - Odin!

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wik...in_Silverbeard - Thor!

[Uska]

So you've never read the Dragonlance Chronicles? {Seriously Flint is about as Barbarian as you can get without being a Barb!}.

So you haven't noticed that every single one of the Dwarves in the Hobbit are Fighters? Always on the Road with no Home to go to but when they talk about home they're NOT talking about Civilization!
They're talking about Fortresses!

You haven't noticed that their personalities are based on perpetual War with Orcs and Goblins and therefore their ideals are based on the Warrior's Code!


I know you loathe The Realms so I'll let you off with Bruenor and the Battlehammer Clan but here's the 3 most famous examples:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wik...r_Battlehammer - Fighter {Maybe with Barbarian Kit}
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Thibbledorf_Pwent - Battlerager Barbarian {The Original D&D Frenzied Berserker!}.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wik...pet_Rakingclaw - BATTLE CLERIC! And brewer of awesome Mead! {Note Mead NOT Ale!}.



How about Dwarven Deities:

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Moradin - Odin!

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wik...in_Silverbeard - Thor!

Umm Forgotten realms so doesnt count for me NEVER liked it and didnt pay much attention to DL but what I did I liked better than the realms

and prefer greek/roman to norse.

I dont pay close attention to any d&d religon prefer to keep them abstract probably another reason I like eberron and yes I said dwarves are Iconic fighters

All of this is Moot anyways

anyways in the next year or the next depending on what is hapening I plan on a trip to europe and maybe we can raise a pint and argue in person

Plan on England, Ireland, and my wife's homeland of Romania

[FranOhmsford]

Umm Forgotten realms so doesnt count for me NEVER liked it and didnt pay much attention to DL but what I did I liked better than the realms

So you're ignoring the two most popular D&D Worlds then {Greyhawk was the first but NOT the most popular}.

And even going by Greyhawk - I don't recall anything specifically saying Dwarves were civilized {well in the modern meaning of that word}.

Vikings were civilized at home.
Greeks and Romans were civilized at home.
Doesn't mean they weren't Warrior Races!

and prefer greek/roman to norse.

The Greek and Roman civilizations were heavily devoted to War {Athens had the greatest Navy in the World!}.

The Greek Gods {the Romans just nicked them and changed their names} really don't suit Dwarves in the way that the Norse/Germanic Gods do.

I dont pay close attention to any d&d religon prefer to keep them abstract probably another reason I like eberron and yes I said dwarves are Iconic fighters

Every Race apart from Halflings and Gnomes could be considered Iconic Fighters though.

PDK has that sewn up in DDO.

Second to Fighter for Dwarves is Battle Cleric {You could say Barb but then what would you give Orcs?}.

anyways in the next year or the next depending on what is hapening I plan on a trip to europe and maybe we can raise a pint and argue in person

Plan on England, Ireland, and my wife's homeland of Romania

I'm afraid I don't drink - It tends to make me angry.

And somehow I doubt you'll be anywhere near this part of England - It's hardly tourist territory.

[Uska]

So you're ignoring the two most popular D&D Worlds then {Greyhawk was the first but NOT the most popular}.

And even going by Greyhawk - I don't recall anything specifically saying Dwarves were civilized {well in the modern meaning of that word}.

Vikings were civilized at home.
Greeks and Romans were civilized at home.
Doesn't mean they weren't Warrior Races!



The Greek and Roman civilizations were heavily devoted to War {Athens had the greatest Navy in the World!}.

The Greek Gods {the Romans just nicked them and changed their names} really don't suit Dwarves in the way that the Norse/Germanic Gods do.



Every Race apart from Halflings and Gnomes could be considered Iconic Fighters though.

PDK has that sewn up in DDO.

Second to Fighter for Dwarves is Battle Cleric {You could say Barb but then what would you give Orcs?}.




I'm afraid I don't drink - It tends to make me angry.

And somehow I doubt you'll be anywhere near this part of England - It's hardly tourist territory.

To bad and I am a happy and friendly kind of drinker