U28 Items

[Gempoult]

The DC bonus on orb is stacking with everything else? If so it's a must have item kinda... Beats the 1 Dc on TF 2-handers... Am i missing something or why aren't people drooling over it?

[Angelic-council]

The DC bonus on orb is stacking with everything else? If so it's a must have item kinda... Beats the 1 Dc on TF 2-handers... Am i missing something or why aren't people drooling over it?

You need to read the thread fully, that's what you are missing

[Holymunchkin]

And bye bye keen on the shield, thanks... if your aim was to make sure they made the shield bad you've probably succeeded.

Curious if you've played a Vanguard instead of watching Videos of them doing half the DPS of a KotC or Barbarian? If you had you would know that saying something like "eSoS equivalent" to a shield is just pure hyperbole filled with over powered connotations of past loot Dev mistakes.

Let me explain: Vanguard shield bashes procs less than once per second in a best case scenario because they are limited to once per second hard coded, this means that the "bash percentage" is no where near accurate reflection of what you actually get, in fact someone had this all mathed out and I believe a 10% increase turned out to actually be about a 1.9% actual increase, because Bashes can only proc when the next "opening" comes around, and then they CAN'T proc again until the animation cycle allows it, so you can go multiple animations with possibly no bashes.

This means a very large amount of the AP in Vanguard is dedicated to improving the DPS of a weapon that only procs on average less than 1 per second USUALLY this damage is only a couple hundred because there's no Improved Critical:Shield feat and Crusader crit range does not effect shields (bug reported but good luck with that); so in essence; not a lot of DPS.

compare to a Wolf build or Suricannon that is getting 5, 6 even 7 attacks within ONE second with 100% of their AP/feat investment going off multiple times per second. Hell just compare it to a TWF KotC doing 8000dps with all the stars aligned boosts stacked up, compared to a Vanguard doing roughly half that with all the same stars aligned boosts stacked up. (they can be compared relative to one another, but they shouldn't be confused for realistic numbers)

HALF the DPS is not a worthy trade off for 10% better mitigation, 8% DS and the Shield Evasion MRR doubling effect.

Potentially other builds are doing 6, 8, 10 or even 14 attacks in the same time a Vanguard might be geting 5 main hand and POSSIBLY 1 Shield bash, or possible NO shield bash...

Possibly no shield bash.

Can you see why a keen shield is not eSoS?

Esos is 13-20/x4. The shield is 13-20/x4. What you are talking about is a strawman or extrapolation of what I said in a single sentence. I agree with you (about shield contribution) but that doesn't change how silly your response to mine seems. I solo'd the Lamma content on an EE vanguard. I use LR hearts to change my main between various paladin/ranger/rogue splits. People keep refering to 8k like it is a regular thing. It is NOT. I run with yeela and Ira on a regular basis. Those are not typical damage videos for them. Usually they get 4.5k dps in LD. If you roll a lot of 20s of course your dps will seem higher in a 12s window on bruntsmash.

Vanguard CAN break 8k dps if I can get 4.6k dps in LD on one test run.

[Gempoult]

You need to read the thread fully, that's what you are missing

I read every single reply, still not seeing it, enlighten me?

[Holymunchkin]

I read every single reply, still not seeing it, enlighten me?

The TF armor gives you a +1 profane bonus to DCs. The DOJ gloves give you +1 quality.
I suppose slotting the mythic int 4 armor from Madness would net you 1 point of int. Good look getting that to drop.
For direct damage dealing the orb costs you the 5% of insightful spell crit chance from Golden Orb of Death.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Mythic_Arcane_Armor
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Arcane_Armor
http://ddowiki.com/page/Thunder-Forg...dowscale_Armor

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Gauntle...Arcane_Soldier

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Golden_...ath_(Level_26)

[Angelic-council]

I read every single reply, still not seeing it, enlighten me?

I know you play the game and ran DoJ. Do you think it's alright to give an orb that beats previous raid loot? Caster two handed weapon from thunder forge will give you +1 stacking DC (bound to character). , DoJ give you " +1 quality bonus to DC" (bound to character) which requires multiple run and this U28 orb will have both of those uniqueness and it's bound to account. It's not right.

[IronClan]

Esos is 13-20/x4. The shield is 13-20/x4. What you are talking about is a strawman or extrapolation of what I said in a single sentence. I agree with you (about shield contribution) but that doesn't change how silly your response to mine seems. I solo'd the Lamma content on an EE vanguard. I use LR hearts to change my main between various paladin/ranger/rogue splits. People keep refering to 8k like it is a regular thing. It is NOT. I run with yeela and Ira on a regular basis. Those are not typical damage videos for them. Usually they get 4.5k dps in LD. If you roll a lot of 20s of course your dps will seem higher in a 12s window on bruntsmash.

Vanguard CAN break 8k dps if I can get 4.6k dps in LD on one test run.

We agree on stars aligned boosts however from what I've seen stars aligned for a Vanguard is around half of a TWF barb or pally. New evidence is fine and I'll watch that with the same detached "this doesn't matter except as an examination of outlyers" fascination that I have all the others.

The boosted tests don't magnify a Vanguards 2-ish main hand attacks and 1-ish shield bash (or possibly none-ish shield bash) NEARLY as much as a everything elses much higher attacks per second.

The truth is we seem to be arguing even though we agree, out of habit I guess. But calling a keen shield eSoS is liable to scare a loot Dev and Turn this shield into the newest Fellblade... an exciting item in preview, and a meh one when it hit live (at least IMO). Hell I don't even like calling it exciting, that's liable to scare them. But it's kinda too late now "oh they like the Fellblade better knock it down a peg" I can imagine the exact same conversation with the shield.

I'm just saying there's no need to scare a Dev with eSoS shield talk... Bashes don't proc at a high enough rate to make the comparison valid. By your own reckoning shields are 25% of your DPS, yet how many AP's are spent improving them?

[Gempoult]

I know you play the game and ran DoJ. Do you think it's alright to give an orb that beats previous raid loot? Caster two handed weapon from thunder forge will give you +1 stacking DC (bound to character). , DoJ give you " +1 quality bonus to DC" (bound to character) which requires multiple run and this U28 orb will have both of those uniqueness and it's bound to account. It's not right.

Well, I completely agree, but as it's listed now the orb gives +2 quality DC, which stacks with everything except the DoJ gloves apparently and should be much easier to get... That's why I was surprised people weren't/aren't all over that item...

[Angelic-council]

Well, I completely agree, but as it's listed now the orb gives +2 quality DC, which stacks with everything except the DoJ gloves apparently and should be much easier to get... That's why I was surprised people weren't/aren't all over that item...

Yes, it's obvious that they aren't all over that item. Because this type of loot kills the raid value. Many people had to run the raid 20 times (at least) just to get that +1 quality bonus and now, after single update, we get +2 quality bonus from a quest and it's bound to account. This simply doesn't make any sense. There is a strict line between raid loot and quest loot. It's raid > quest and not raid = quest. Right now, it's raid < quest.

[CeltEireson]

The Demonic Slab: this is a good shield, and very cool looking and fitting loot at this level, HOWEVER there's a shield in Defiler that is clearly inferior.... I suggest giving the Shield in Defiler +3W and you will have two good shields. For some reason Steelstar left the +W off both of the shields in the Archons pack making them of extremely limited utility and useless for Vanguards.

Please don't nerf this shield it's GOOD it's not insane, it's not OP... it's simply better then the Raid shield from the previous pack because you guys omitted +W fix that and both shields have something to offer and are good loot. Don't fix that and this shield immediately obsoletes brand new Raid loot.

The shield from the raid has a lot of extra bonuses that this one doesn't - not saying its better for straight dps but against anything with DR its likely to do better and given that Epic Shroud is likely to be full of mobs that have DR its not going to be obsolete any time soon. It also an extra augment slot, plus additional holy and bashing damage and the 20% extra bash (not that useful for a vanguard due to the limitation of one bash per second but useful for someone who hasn't a heavy investment).

Against ordinarty mobs id likely use Demonic Slab - against devils/demons Id likely use Ultimatum - if I had it that is

[Portalcat]

The DC bonus on orb is stacking with everything else? If so it's a must have item kinda... Beats the 1 Dc on TF 2-handers... Am i missing something or why aren't people drooling over it?

You get +1 over the gloves but give up +1 versus the TF 2-handers. The orb isn't offering anything else that's compelling beyond the +2 Quality bonus.

It's no net DC change, and if it's better, it's due to slot consolidation, but the raid gloves fit well there because there wasn't anything key in the gloves slot previously. One could probably move GS to gloves, which may matter a lot come epic Vale, or matter none at all because there's likely to be major reshuffle of everything then.





With a maxed DC caster, it's probably worth farming the orb just to have it for the future, but it doesn't really improve the build as of U28. If you don't already have a maxed DC caster, the orb is a big improvement in what's available before farming out all raid gear.