Ranger: Tempest Changes

[Thar]

I do not like that the 2nd additional 10% chance to make off-hand attacks when dual wielding went from level 12 core to the level 18 core.

It removes the ability to get 100% of hand attacks from any multi class that is not 18 levels. My personal Ranger is 15 Ranger(Tempest) / 4 Fighter(for extra feats) / 1 Rogue(for traps). So 3/4 of the levels are Ranger and can no longer have 100% off hand attacks. Pure class also now do not get the 100% until level 18 instead of level 12.

Please consider changing it back to the level core 12 and moving the critical part in the new level 12 core to 18.

this would restrict multiclass too much. have to stay where it is. at least that wasn't removed too...

[Arlathen]

I typed this in the DWS thread, but I'm putting this here to make it's not missed:

I don't understand the sheer outrage now being poured out. From my perspective:

• Crit boosts were repeatedly asked for in the DWS / Tempest threads, and we we're given them at the expense of some of the initially integrated Melee Power in both tree's and some of the power in ATC
• To get both Crit boosts and a Capstone requires a huge AP investment in Ranger(42AP, 62AP with a Capstone). Paladins have far more flexibility due to having that boost as a spell.
• Even taking all these Crit boosts and a Capstone still leaves Ranger DPS behind Barbarians
• T5 / Capstone choice between Tempest and DWS is quite an interesting (read:difficult) choice dependant on how you want to play your Ranger
• Rangers should be ahead of Paladins in DPS, as they rightly are now. Paladins have much better defenses to call upon, and with LoHs & enhancement Heal Amp have better Self-Healing available.
• Defensively, Rangers are the worst off between Barb / Paladin / Ranger, but from my perspective it's decent enough to keep them in the game in EEs
• The tradeoff in defense for Rangers allows them there Versatility with a bow. Perfectly happy with that.
• From my perspective, Holy Sword can now be left alone, allowing Paladins to keep there DPS gain they had from there pass
• Barbarians bonuses are brought in line with other class enhancements, with Crit Rage being typed Competence

From my point of view, I'm very happy with how things turned out.

Further:

• 12 Ranger as a Multi-class just got popular, when all the comments previous to the pass was "It's not worth going beyond 6 Ranger these days". That's a win.
• Further 6 / 12 / 18 Ranger as a multiclass all have strong points to recommend them. Win.
• Players with Paladin 15 / Ranger 5 builds haven't lost anything, and have probably gained a little from some of the reinvented enhancements. That's another win.

Being passionate about the game is a good thing, guys, but sometimes a chill pill or two is a good thing too.

[Axeyu]

I'm basing it off the training dummy (first life so it's not autocrit) from guild ship. (dex based toon) weapon difference i am sure causes some discrepancy with what others are seeing with STR/Khopesh. Devs didn't address the the light weapons more than they have previously by giving them dex to damage in the tree. Perhaps they feel the ac increase from dex makes up for the lower dps and crit mod. When i tested the dummy last night vs changes today, base weapon numbers were the same as nothing changed there. Crits increased obviously to keep up with the crowd. perhaps not seeing the dual perfection adding in? That should pull half the numbers up +10 (half my dex bonus) Even so pally avg 150 hits on mobs, Barb 200s. Ranger won't barely hit 200 with light weapons on a crit

My barb is TWF ravager so while slightly less offhand procs (80%), it's more than makes up for it with DBP increase as he hits way harder.

Pally is sword/board and hits harder with but has speed boost from vanguard to attack faster with str/khopesh. numbers are closer to barb than ranger was.

All three will crit similar. barb being less crits but higher numbers by far by design.

So your DPS claims are based on using a low DPS toon on a 100% fort dummy and comparing what you think are the average numbers? wow

You know what, I'm gonna stick to trusting the math for now. No offense, but you really need to work on your methods.

[DevilYouKnow]

Varg can you please either remove dervish or take away the crit threat range buff from dws ?
Rangers will still be able to take the threat range boost from legendary dreadnought by using blunted weapons.

Pulverizer: Passive Bonus: Increases the critical threat range of bludgeoning weapons you equip by 1 (Competence bonus). Does not work with Handwraps.

But please do something about it... Right now rangers inflict more dps than barbarians.

[JOTMON]

~snip~
Fast movement ? Not needed. They get sprint boost from tempest while keeping haste from ld.
~snip~

Tempest has to choose between sprint boost and haste boost..only a fool would take sprint boost over the dps haste boost

Barbarians and Monk are permanently faster.. I can deal with that..
Sneaking rogues are faster... huh.. interesting... a rogue can sneak faster than the ranger can run.
Paladins, warlocks, swashbucklers don't have to choose and lockout anything, they get a permanent fast movement as a % speed increase for 2 AP. ... ? how does this make any sense...??
How is it that Paladin tanks in full heavy armor and tower shield can get a permanent 10% speed enhancement.. bards singing songs and playing their banjo can run faster..


Ranger speed spells like.. Longstrinder is garbage since it doesn't stack with haste. or even expedious retreat wands at level 1..
A hunting class like Ranger with all the light armor restrictions they already have cant even keep up with its prey..

Rangers the class that should have burst speed as an inate class ability regardless of enhancement trees is the class that doesn't and enhancement trees options are limited to a BS choice..

[EllisDee37]

Sneaking rogues are faster... huh.. interesting...

Rogues are just flat-out faster, the same speed as bards for 3 AP:

Thief-Acrobat Tier 1: Fast Movement
Cost: 2 AP
Ranks: 1
Prereqs: None
Descrip: You run 1% faster for each of your Rogue levels if you are wearing cloth or light armor.

[DevilYouKnow]

Tempest has to choose between sprint boost and haste boost..only a fool would take sprint boost over the dps haste boost

Barbarians and Monk are permanently faster.. I can deal with that..
Sneaking rogues are faster... huh.. interesting...
Paladins, warlocks, swashbucklers don't have to choose and lockout anything, they get a permanent fast movement as a % speed increase for 2 AP. ... ? how does this make any sense...??
How is it that Paladin tanks in full heavy armor and tower shield can get a permanent 10% speed enhancement.. bards singing songs and playing their banjo can run faster..


Ranger speed spells like.. Longstrinder is garbage since it doesn't stack with haste. or even expedious retreat wands at level 1..
A hunting class like Ranger with all the light armor restrictions they already have cant even keep up with its prey..

Rangers the class that should have burst speed as an inate class ability regardless of enhancement trees is the class that doesn't and enhancement trees options are limited to a BS choice..

You know what is haste boost from legendary dreadnought ?

[JOTMON]

You know what is haste boost from legendary dreadnought ?

sure, a epic destiny that is not part of the Ranger class or Tempest enhancement tree and has nothing to do with the lack of haste increase for the Ranger.
or this thread that you seem to keep trying to derail.

What does an epic destiny have to do with "Ranger: Tempest Changes "
So if you could keep the discussion to how "Ranger" the "class" and "Tempest" the "enhancement tree" compares to other classes and enhancements that would be great..

[DevilYouKnow]

How about this?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...eT9gENrPV-b2l4

Almost 25% ahead of paladins, while they also have by far the best AoE damage thanks to Dance of Death and can use a bow to deal decent damage when it's called for.

Also see this.

[Basura_Grande]

But please do something about it... Right now rangers inflict more dps than barbarians.

Has this been proven yet? I suspect it to be so, but has this been proven?

[Eth]

Has this been proven yet? I suspect it to be so, but has this been proven?

Can you do more than 4k single target DPS sustained*?
*includes double boosts


For AoE it should be no competition as far as TWF goes.

[Holymunchkin]

For AoE it should be no competition as far as TWF goes.

A tree beats it for things with like 20k or less I bet. Maybe a tempest could beat them vs 2 executioners in ee doj.

[Basura_Grande]

Can you do more than 4k single target DPS sustained*?
*includes double boosts


For AoE it should be no competition as far as TWF goes.

Define "sustained." I don't think any of the targets we have are good enough for a real DPS test, we need a 1 million HP Kobold.

I will say with three tempests in the group in two EE DoJs we killed the boss before the boom, we've never done that before.

[Eth]

A tree beats it for things with like 20k or less I bet. Maybe a tempest could beat them vs 2 executioners in ee doj.

K, tree is technically TWF...

[Eth]

Define "sustained." I don't think any of the targets we have are good enough for a real DPS test, we need a 1 million HP Kobold.

I will say with three tempests in the group in two EE DoJs we killed the boss before the boom, we've never done that before.

Kill 5 kobolds one by one and see if it's under 100 seconds?
I'm pretty sure tempests are better than 4k single target.

Elite ToD is also a somewhat nice testing ground since it factors fortification and incoming damage somewhat. My barb as of U24 was at 2 minutes for beating the boss in part 2.

[Steve_Howe]

Not sure if this has been pointed out in this thread or not but Dual Perfection does not appear to be giving my toon his FULL Strength bonus to off-hand damage while wielding dual scimitars.

Is this a Known Issue?

[Grailhawk]

Not sure if this has been pointed out in this thread or not but Dual Perfection does not appear to be giving my toon his FULL Strength bonus to off-hand damage while wielding dual scimitars.

Is this a Known Issue?

It worked when it was first introduced, and it was working a week or two ago.

It does not update the details panel but if you look at your damage numbers there was no way it was not working last time I used it.

[Steve_Howe]

It does not update the details panel but if you look at your damage numbers there was no way it was not working last time I used it.

Yeah, I'm looking in the Details panel and that's where I'm not seeing it as being accurate. Are you saying it's merely a display issue and that the enhancement is actually working?

[Dandonk]

Yeah, I'm looking in the Details panel and that's where I'm not seeing it as being accurate. Are you saying it's merely a display issue and that the enhancement is actually working?

Yes.

there was a thread on this not long ago. Someone tested it. The display is bugged, but the numbers on attacking the dummy were fine.

[Grailhawk]

Yeah, I'm looking in the Details panel and that's where I'm not seeing it as being accurate. Are you saying it's merely a display issue and that the enhancement is actually working?

Yes