Ranger: Tempest Changes

[DevilYouKnow]

No, never where.

Will you ever stop asking for more power?

I really hate my paladin now. I am forced to tr into a pure ranger. What a waste of time...

[Thar]

No, never where.

Will you ever stop asking for more power?

When it hits more than my bard or close to my pally or barbarian, sure. the defensive improvements are 1-2% improvements if that. not enough to survive.

see here for the ap changes vargoille hinted at

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...Feedback/page3

it's all 1 ap or 1/1/1 if tiered.

[Grailhawk]

I really hate my paladin now. I am forced to tr into a pure ranger. What a waste of time...

I was saying Ranger were getting to much and that the Tempest capstone was in need of a tone down given the increase of +1 Crit Multiplier, before we even know that Stalker was getting +1 threat. link

[Grailhawk]

When it hits more than my bard or close to my pally or barbarian, sure. the defensive improvements are 1-2% improvements if that. not enough to survive.

see here for the ap changes vargoille hinted at

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...Feedback/page3

it's all 1 ap or 1/1/1 if tiered.

Here's our current thinking:



(Abilities in Orange cost 2 AP per rank.)

Whirling blades are in Orange!

[Thar]

I was saying Ranger were getting to much and that the Tempest capstone was in need of a tone down given the increase of +1 Crit Multiplier, before we even know that Stalker was getting +1 threat. link

how can you say tone down? all the melee power is removed from non capstone. they got 2d6 electric damage, 1/2 stat off hand bonus, and a clickie revamp dps wise. that's hardly enough to make it attractive no matter how op the clickie is for 15 sec.

[Thar]

Whirling blades are in Orange!

and all 2 ap on live along with the new electric enhancements and dual perfection. .

[Grailhawk]

how can you say tone down?

Because I like thing in balance not crazy OP.

Your comments on a lot of the things in this thread show you don't really have a clue as to whats good and not. As an example Dual Perfection is an amazing ability for a TWF it goes a lot way into making up any ground they lost to SWF or TWF in the single target DPS race, but you said its not really a good Tier 5?

I get it you like the class and want it to be really powerful but come on there's a point where it goes beyond the current best and that's not a good goal right now with +1 Crit T&M and Dervish pure ranger is far an away better then Paladin maybe barbs to hard to say comparison are more difficult there.

:sigh:

[sjbb87]

Live change results on 18/1/1 build with light weapons for monk stance.

AC - no change unless you slap on leather armor negating monk stance then -28AC (approx 10% better chance of being hit at level, more vs over level mobs in EE)
PRR gain of 9 which resulted in going from 54.13% to 55.95%. yes i seeing this extra 2% making a difference in EE <sarcasm> leather takes this to + 17 for 57.45% again not a huge jump for the loss of substancial ac
MRR gain of 9 armor gain 19
Stats - same
Dodge - reduction of 3% due to pushing more ap to DWS cap down 1 due to reshifted ap as not enough ap reduction in tree. I thought more of the 2ap were being reduced to 1ap. perhaps that was a player suggestion instead. leather cap goes down to 19
incorporal 5%
HP goes up 60 with DWS changes.

Overall defensive gains 1.82% prr or 3.32% for amor with -28AC. small MRR gains negated by use of evasion. Dodge chance reduction due to limited AP to gain dps changes. incorp 5% 30% elect absorb

DPS

Base weapon damage - n/a
+crit range/+crit mod
-10 fort bypass
gain merciful shot/melee or ranged but you can't use both the same time anyway but a good improvement none the less
+10 damage from dual perfection if it's working as doesn't seem to show in base weapon damage.
+1000 cuts clickie
+2d6 electric damage

-10% off hand from shiradi
-9% dodge clickie on hit from shiradi
-3w 3 crit clickie attack in acrobat

The main win here is the crit improvements which should increase the light weapons to respectible damage on crits and dual perfection. Testing will be needed to see how much the 1000 cuts improves dps vs 10% off hand and the 3w /crit attack loss. Since this fires off much slower but has better results it should be a win but not as much as advertised.

I still feel the mp could have stayed in some manner. Core improvements were all reset for the crits which were needed but the class really needed both for dex builds imo.

The ranger is great.
Thank turbine

[Thar]

Because I like thing in balance not crazy OP.

Your comments on a lot of the things in this thread show you don't really have a clue as to whats good and not. As an example Dual Perfection is an amazing ability for a TWF it goes a lot way into making up any ground they lost to SWF or TWF in the single target DPS race, but you said its not really a good Tier 5?

I get it you like the class and want it to be really powerful but come on there's a point where it goes beyond the current best and that's not a good goal right now with +1 Crit T&M and Dervish pure ranger is far an away better then Paladin maybe barbs to hard to say comparison are more difficult there.

:sigh:

i don't consider a 1/2 stat bonus to half my attacks to be an awesome increase in dps. is it an increase yes. is it worth a tier 5 where some classes have +10 mp or cleaves no.

that's not having a clue, that's not agreeing that this is awesome.

I'm looking at my results and it's not up to pally, it's not 1/2 of barbarian. it's improved but I don't see results that show it to be enough. pally got 7d6 light damage plus cleaves, plus crit boot, plus prr etc etc. Ranger doesn't have the defensive capabilities of pally so should have more dps. I don't show that so at the moment. With the same crit profile, they should be doing similar damage, no? why is the pally doing 150 base number vs ranger in 90-115s?

the class needed a 20-40% increase to match pally along with the crit profiles. the 25% the devs had was good along with the other changes if the crit profile was added. reducing it by 10% was acceptible for the crit mod. removing it all to add the other half that was what killed the update. it needed both as many people had said when it was in place. disagree with all the prior comments on the threads, but most of the people were not saying remove the mp and give us crits. it was as the changes were, it still needs the crits.

[DevilYouKnow]

i don't consider a 1/2 stat bonus to half my attacks to be an awesome increase in dps. is it an increase yes. is it worth a tier 5 where some classes have +10 mp or cleaves no.

that's not having a clue, that's not agreeing that this is awesome.

I'm looking at my results and it's not up to pally, it's not 1/2 of barbarian. it's improved but I don't see results that show it to be enough. pally got 7d6 light damage plus cleaves, plus crit boot, plus prr etc etc. Ranger doesn't have the defensive capabilities of pally so should have more dps. I don't show that so at the moment. With the same crit profile, they should be doing similar damage, no? why is the pally doing 150 base number vs ranger in 90-115s?

the class needed a 20-40% increase to match pally along with the crit profiles. the 25% the devs had was good along with the other changes if the crit profile was added. reducing it by 10% was acceptible for the crit mod. removing it all to add the other half that was what killed the update. it needed both as many people had said when it was in place. disagree with all the prior comments on the threads, but most of the people were not saying remove the mp and give us crits. it was as the changes were, it still needs the crits.

Pure rangers do have the same crit profile, they have 100% to make an offhand attack and they also have 20 % more doublestrike as well as others things. If you aren't going pure, you are doing ist wrong.

[Thar]

Pure rangers do have the same crit profile, they have 100% to make an offhand attack and they also have 20 % more doublestrike as well as others things. If you aren't going pure, you are doing ist wrong.

so your saying they loaded too much into the capstone. not sure i agree there compared to other capstones that are just as powerful if not more.

and pally have shield strikes and light damage and smites and prr, etc etc. End result is they do more damage and have the defense to survive in ee. hard to say they compare to rogue who gets close to the same off hand with feats and 100-200 ish sneak attack damage on top.

Rangers didn't get a substancial boost in prr unless you go pure, no dodge increase, no ac increase. 5%incorp doesn't help 95% of the time. And the dps doesn't bring them on par although it does move them closer. we can agree to disagree about that although you said you had a pally and not a ranger so you may not know how it is painful on live to run one in EE. hard to dps when your 2 shot. let us know how your full ranger survives. be interested to hear.

[Basura_Grande]

All I have to say is now if your ranger isn't amazing the lack of power exist between the keyboard and the chair.

[Thar]

All I have to say is now if your ranger isn't amazing the lack of power exist between the keyboard and the chair.

or they haven't played a well built pally or barb.

[Axeyu]

so your saying they loaded too much into the capstone. not sure i agree there compared to other capstones that are just as powerful if not more.

and pally have shield strikes and light damage and smites and prr, etc etc. End result is they do more damage and have the defense to survive in ee. hard to say they compare to rogue who gets close to the same off hand with feats and 100-200 ish sneak attack damage on top.

Rangers didn't get a substancial boost in prr unless you go pure, no dodge increase, no ac increase. 5%incorp doesn't help 95% of the time. And the dps doesn't bring them on par although it does move them closer. we can agree to disagree about that although you said you had a pally and not a ranger so you may not know how it is painful on live to run one in EE. hard to dps when your 2 shot. let us know how your full ranger survives. be interested to hear.

What are you basing your DPS claims on? They seem off.

[Basura_Grande]

or they haven't played a well built pally or barb.

How fast were your barb or pallies killing the Kobolds on Lamania?

[sjbb87]

or they haven't played a well built pally or barb.

DPS
Barbarian>Ranger>paladin


Exactly as it should be

[OverlordOfRats]

I do not like that the 2nd additional 10% chance to make off-hand attacks when dual wielding went from level 12 core to the level 18 core.

It removes the ability to get 100% of hand attacks from any multi class that is not 18 levels. My personal Ranger is 15 Ranger(Tempest) / 4 Fighter(for extra feats) / 1 Rogue(for traps). So 3/4 of the levels are Ranger and can no longer have 100% off hand attacks. Pure class also now do not get the 100% until level 18 instead of level 12.

Please consider changing it back to the level core 12 and moving the critical part in the new level 12 core to 18.

[Grailhawk]

I do not like that the 2nd additional 10% chance to make off-hand attacks when dual wielding went from level 12 core to the level 18 core.

It removes the ability to get 100% of hand attacks from any multi class that is not 18 levels. My personal Ranger is 15 Ranger(Tempest) / 4 Fighter(for extra feats) / 1 Rogue(for traps). So 3/4 of the levels are Ranger and can no longer have 100% off hand attacks. Pure class also now do not get the 100% until level 18 instead of level 12.

Please consider changing it back to the level core 12 and moving the critical part in the new level 12 core to 18.

I agree that the 10% Off-had proc should not have been moved, but its really no where near as powerful so in the end this was a net gain.

[Axeyu]

I do not like that the 2nd additional 10% chance to make off-hand attacks when dual wielding went from level 12 core to the level 18 core.

It removes the ability to get 100% of hand attacks from any multi class that is not 18 levels. My personal Ranger is 15 Ranger(Tempest) / 4 Fighter(for extra feats) / 1 Rogue(for traps). So 3/4 of the levels are Ranger and can no longer have 100% off hand attacks. Pure class also now do not get the 100% until level 18 instead of level 12.

Please consider changing it back to the level core 12 and moving the critical part in the new level 12 core to 18.

Please no. The fact that we have a really good ability at level 12 is great. If every good ability comes from T5 or level 18/20 cores things get pretty boring. Making it the level 12 core was a smart move.

[Thar]

What are you basing your DPS claims on? They seem off.

I'm basing it off the training dummy (first life so it's not autocrit) from guild ship. (dex based toon) weapon difference i am sure causes some discrepancy with what others are seeing with STR/Khopesh. Devs didn't address the the light weapons more than they have previously by giving them dex to damage in the tree. Perhaps they feel the ac increase from dex makes up for the lower dps and crit mod. When i tested the dummy last night vs changes today, base weapon numbers were the same as nothing changed there. Crits increased obviously to keep up with the crowd. perhaps not seeing the dual perfection adding in? That should pull half the numbers up +10 (half my dex bonus) Even so pally avg 150 hits on mobs, Barb 200s. Ranger won't barely hit 200 with light weapons on a crit

My barb is TWF ravager so while slightly less offhand procs (80%), it's more than makes up for it with DBP increase as he hits way harder.

Pally is sword/board and hits harder with but has speed boost from vanguard to attack faster with str/khopesh. numbers are closer to barb than ranger was.

All three will crit similar. barb being less crits but higher numbers by far by design.