Acquiring Past Lives at Level Cap

[Sarzor]

I have no such doubts. This is a terrible idea.

This.

[Dragavon]

Today you have to choose, either stay at cap and get raid completions and materials, or abandon that and reincarnate for past life feats for more powerful characters.

I think it should stay that way. We should not be able to get everything at once for less effort. This game has become easy enough.

[Angelic-council]

I have no such doubts. This is a terrible idea.

Yup, it's terrible. This basically allows you to farm past lifes much faster and easier.

I've always felt the reward for being at level cap is...being at level cap. You get to actually USE all those shiny high-level abilities & gear.

Yeah, exactly.

For what though? That's the issue I see. The game, more or less, penalizes players for doing so by making any sort of progress predicated on playing without those things.

That's what you should be asking to OP. TR is just a preparation (optional) it's not an end game. We don't need any changes to TR system, especially this one, that makes it much easier to farm. Because what is the point then, many of us worked very hard to acquire those past lifes then this idea strikes in.

What we should be talking about is how to improve the game at cap outside of the EXP farming. Because staying at cap indicates that your preparation is ready, now, you want to look for a challenge and have fun. That's the end game. It will be best for us if we use "level cap" more with respect. And not for solution to achieve something faster, short cut.

[Grailhawk]

I don't think past lives should be acquired at endgame. But some kind of exp grind for endgame players might be a useful addition.

[Enoach]

While I understand the draw of keeping raid completions through a TR, I'm not 100% for adding that into the game. To me the problem has always been how do you entice people to stay at a particular level range longer.

However, earning XP at CAP to use later to me seems like a very dangerous road to travel. Which I believe is one of the reason saga rewards don't give you an XP stone.

1. Make the XP requirement such that it takes longer to make it to the maximum level
...This may occur with level cap going to 30. But still does not give players a good reason to stay at cap, only delay's the ER/TR process

2. Create a crafting system that requires higher levels to achieve ingredients
...The problem with this type of system is it becomes exclusionary as either you have to make the quest require a minimum level to enter or make the quest so difficult that would cause it not to be completed by some groups and that would be worse then not having anything to do, it would be having something that can't be done available (ability/skill may very)

3. Create an in depth End Game. One that is filled with diverse Raid and Quests. The Drop rates should be reasonable and not to excessive on either side. But no matter what a player should be given an option of the loot on their 20th completion.

At one point people stopped TR'ng to spend time earning Shards/Seals/Scrolls because while not all the gear was great, enough of it was good for the ML20. With the expansion Epic random gear out preformed and was easier to get so it meant less reason to run many quests/series in DDO.

[Xenich]

Today you have to choose, either stay at cap and get raid completions and materials, or abandon that and reincarnate for past life feats for more powerful characters.

I think it should stay that way. We should not be able to get everything at once for less effort. This game has become easy enough.

Nah, there should be a choice. One of them should be that you log into the game and push a button and instantly win! Remember, I play the game for my fun ya know! /sarc

[Krell]

We all know that there is less incentive for players to remain at cap. You simply can not progress your character after you got all your destinies without tr'ing. People are also keen on making raid completions persistent through tr, so that they can go for 20th list while perma-tring. A lot is done for the perma-tr community, time to please the stay-at-cap community.

What about spending a tr-heart, and getting a buffer of the amount of xp which would be needed to get back to lvl 20 or epic from 20-28 or iconic 15-28, when you fill the buffer (through gaining xp on level cap) you get the past life. This is of course a little naive, more thought has to go into it. But the idea is clear. Progress your character at level cap!

I do not especially know if I even myself like the idea, but I think it is a great counterpoint to all that perma-tr pleasing and it is time to please the stay-at-cap community.

Reminds me of requests to level off destinies at a slower pace while staying in your primary destiny. Common theme of play the way you want while progressing your character.

[Angelic-council]

I don't think past lives should be acquired at endgame. But some kind of exp grind for endgame players might be a useful addition.

Oh yeah? Interesting, like what for example and why.

[BoBoDaClown]

I've always liked this idea.

I have often felt irritated with the whole reincarnation process.

I never viewed the earning lives at cap idea as an easy way to get your epic pastlives - it should be the harder way. Make the xp needed much much much higher, so it just gives the option to stay at cap if you want it. The easier way will be to continue to do your reincarnations. To be fair, I have always thought of this in terms of epic reincarnations, not heroic/iconic. Keeping it to epics wouldn't cost turbine too much money anyway - those people who are in such a rush that they would buy a heart, probably aren't going to be the type that will stick around at cap to earn the xp.

[IronClan]

I've always felt the reward for being at level cap is...being at level cap. You get to actually USE all those shiny high-level abilities & gear.

As you well know the people who enjoy playing at cap "with all the toys" (and just as importantly with friends they like to run with who aren't often that easy to run with when everyones at different levels on the TR train) don't feel the game has given us very much to do there, due to a series of disastrous management choices since MOTU.

Proposals like the OP's stem from the underlying problem of Turbine management/design team more or less intentionally telling us to shove off and find something else to do if we don't enjoy starting over at low level.

[Grailhawk]

Oh yeah? Interesting, like what for example and why.

I don't really have an idea for the what, they attempted something like what I would come up with with the ED grind (though I wouldn't have made you change your destiny or need to rework your build each time you go for something) but they made it too good so every one fills obligated to grind out all ED's for twists.

The why is simply because the game needs more things to do at endgame Raid Timer Bypass have killed long term raiding and gear acquisition is only interesting until you get what you need, some kind of get 10 Mil exp and trade it for 1 Melee/Ranged/Spell Power might add something worth doing at endgame, but again I don't really have an idea.

[blerkington]

Hi,

I would have liked to see some method for banking ED xp. Unfortunately, the model we have now enforces a deliberately unpleasant grind and the solutions are either not to participate, bow down and get it done, or pay for an item which lets you bypass it.

As long as we have a store item to bypass this grind which sells well, I can't see anything about the current set-up changing. I'm sure the sale of Otto's boxes and xp potions would slump if people trying to optimise their characters didn't have to spend all that time running in off destinies.

More methods of developing our characters at cap would be nice, though we do have farming mysterious remnants for chrisms for that. Something else that allowed a small, slow increase in power or versatility which would also encourage people to rerun lower level epic content and raids would be ideal.

Thanks.

[Knight_slayer]

We all know that there is less incentive for players to remain at cap. You simply can not progress your character after you got all your destinies without tr'ing. People are also keen on making raid completions persistent through tr, so that they can go for 20th list while perma-tring. A lot is done for the perma-tr community, time to please the stay-at-cap community.

What about spending a tr-heart, and getting a buffer of the amount of xp which would be needed to get back to lvl 20 or epic from 20-28 or iconic 15-28, when you fill the buffer (through gaining xp on level cap) you get the past life. This is of course a little naive, more thought has to go into it. But the idea is clear. Progress your character at level cap!

I do not especially know if I even myself like the idea, but I think it is a great counterpoint to all that perma-tr pleasing and it is time to please the stay-at-cap community.

I believe there is a way to make this happen and that its a fantastic idea. During the discussions about raid sagas and mythic (reaper) difficulty the idea came up for bankable XP tokens. The current sagas could be used for reaper difficulty only the saga reward gives xp that goes to your backpack as a token or to an xp bank similar to astral shards.

[Angelic-council]

I don't really have an idea for the what, they attempted something like what I would come up with with the ED grind (though I wouldn't have made you change your destiny or need to rework your build each time you go for something) but they made it too good so every one fills obligated to grind out all ED's for twists.

The why is simply because the game needs more things to do at endgame Raid Timer Bypass have killed long term raiding and gear acquisition is only interesting until you get what you need, some kind of get 10 Mil exp and trade it for 1 Melee/Ranged/Spell Power might add something worth doing at endgame, but again I don't really have an idea.

Thanks for sharing.

Grailhawk, interesting thought you got there. But you see, it's a difficult subject. I always say this (not only me), but if turbine release another EXP farming content, just like EDs and PLs, then set it at cap, would it be really effective?. Can you imagine yourself repeatedly farming 10 million EXP for small boost in character power. I'm sure I will. But then again, it's no differ than current state of the game.

More EXP at cap means, more dailies to run. Would that motivate you?

[Vellrad]

The why is simply because the game needs more things to do at endgame Raid Timer Bypass have killed long term raiding and gear acquisition is only interesting until you get what you need, some kind of get 10 Mil exp and trade it for 1 Melee/Ranged/Spell Power might add something worth doing at endgame, but again I don't really have an idea.

So, end game with bypasses:
Spend 2 hours doing 20 runs of new raid when its released.
vs endgame without:
Spend 10 minutes doing new raid, then log out and come back in 3 days, if you still remember what DDO is.

Yeah, bypases are so evil.

Terrible raid desing kills raiding, not bypasses.

[Angelic-council]

deleted.

[Qhualor]

So, end game with bypasses:
Spend 2 hours doing 20 runs of new raid when its released.
vs endgame without:
Spend 10 minutes doing new raid, then log out and come back in 3 days, if you still remember what DDO is.

Yeah, bypases are so evil.

Terrible raid desing kills raiding, not bypasses.

if there is nothing else for you to do in the game besides raid, than yeah, you wouldn't be a target audience to please. longevity of raids makes a player base happier, not being done with a raid within a month and waiting around trying to fill a group for those still looking for raid loot. the only raid that has gotten any real heat with bad design is CITW because of the sp draining, but it was still regularly run up until raiders boxes.

[Grailhawk]

Thanks for sharing.

Grailhawk, interesting thought you got there. But you see, it's a difficult subject. I always say this (not only me), but if turbine release another EXP farming content, just like EDs and PLs, then set it at cap, would it be really effective?. Can you imagine yourself repeatedly farming 10 million EXP for small boost in character power. I'm sure I will. But then again, it's no differ than current state of the game.

More EXP at cap means, more dailies to run. Would that motivate you?

Like I said it might be useful depends on what gets implemented.

So, end game with bypasses:
Spend 2 hours doing 20 runs of new raid when its released.
vs endgame without:
Spend 10 minutes doing new raid, then log out and come back in 3 days, if you still remember what DDO is.

Yeah, bypases are so evil.

Terrible raid desing kills raiding, not bypasses.

That was not my experience before bypass existed, I easily played 4hr a day doing nothing but old epics and raids in those days for months at a time only TR when I felt like a change of pace.

[blackdoguk]

I'd love to make at cap xp count for something - progression is a good thing and incentive to play is what keeps people logging in. I'd probably dust off more of my characters knowing that I could keep them at cap and work towards the many many past lives they are missing, even if that meant losing out on a portion of the xp (see this thread for more on the topic, which was met with a mostly favourable reception.) Have to say I'd prefer to see the adoption of that sort of system over the proposed one OP, though I think any change to colossal amount of xp which counts for nothing would be a welcome one.

[IronClan]

I'd love to make at cap xp count for something - progression is a good thing and incentive to play is what keeps people logging in. I'd probably dust off more of my characters knowing that I could keep them at cap and work towards the many many past lives they are missing, even if that meant losing out on a portion of the xp (see this thread for more on the topic, which was met with a mostly favourable reception.) Have to say I'd prefer to see the adoption of that sort of system over the proposed one OP, though I think any change to colossal amount of xp which counts for nothing would be a welcome one.

indeed well said... anything is better than nothing. I would prefer the idea in post #7 of that thread over the OP's, but the OP clearly is spit balling and not so much married to their implementation as wanting SOMETHING to do at cap.

All the "I hate people who play at cap and want them to go away" noise making aside I really think it's time for Turbine to throw end gamers a bone... and some sort of slow progression system that doesn't require burning it all down to lvl 1 again, or being in unfun off destinies for 79,000,000 XP would be my preference.