Ranger: Deepwood Stalker Changes

[rehakp]

I would like to see some sort of sneakattack oriented talents in this tree (can be simply +dices and/or cripling strike sort of talents) because i see DWS as ranger going on sort of rogue stealthy path with some dirty fighting tricks.

I think T5 or some core in "stalker" tree should be some sort of assassinate. Autocrit on CD is really underpowered for T5 talent especially in current game with current crit ranges. If you want to avoid another instakill talent then make it atleast something like autocrit + critprofile for X sec (1/2 of CD time ?) or something that will scale like this.

Some sort of CC (and other) traps makes perfect sense in this tree and could diferentiate this tree in usefull and fun way.

And what i really would like to see is pet tree. Pet does make sense in this tree also (atleast compared to AA and tempest). But i know this is from dreamland now because ranger do not have pets in DDO

[DevilYouKnow]

Can we move on to tempest a bit sooner please ? I don't like filler trees.

[HastyPudding]

So why no add Quick Draw feat in this tree? Somewhere...

I like that idea. Add it in the tier 5's, since if you're going into the tier 5's of this tree the devs seem to think you're a hybrid in the first place.



I don't know, I just don't like the idea of stalker being a total hybrid. I always imagined the stalker as very high ranged DPS with melee options, tempest as high melee DPS with a lot of dodge/light armor/speed options, and arcane archer as a ranged dps tree but more emphasis on on-hit effects, DR breaking, and special properties than damage. This whole 'arcane archer will be the ranged DPS tree' rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I'm just biased because I've always enjoyed stalker more and arcane archer has always been some sort of cliche/clone for so long. If I make a ranger again I'm going to feel that I'm not living up to my dps potential with a bow by not taking the AA capstone/tier 5's.

[sjbb87]

Tier Three
~ Favored Hunter: (1/1/1 AP) You gain +1/+3/+5 to hit and damage against favored enemies.
~ Thrill of the Hunt: AP Cost is reduced to 1/1/1 AP. "You gain +1/+2/+3 damage for 6 seconds after damaging an opponent under 50% health." If you kill the opponent you gain 0%/2%/5% primal damage bonus to you melee and ranged attacks for 6 seconds




Tier Four
I believe Merciful Strike / shot needs to improve a bit, perhaps like this:
~ Hunter's Mercy
* Merciful Shot now works if the target is below 50% health (was 20%). The bane damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.
* Merciful Strike now works if the target is below 50% health (was 20%). The bane damage scales with 200% Melee Power.


~ Killer: When you kill a target, you gain a 5% morale bonus to Doublestrike and Doubleshot for 10 seconds. Weak enemies will not always produce this effect. The Killer buff can stack up to 2/3/4 times. Decrements by 1 every 10 seconds. (Repeating Crossbows have a reduced chance to produce extra shots)

And as I said before some other ideas, such as:


Tier one
Ranger live in the forest and moving well, as no one among the trees

~ Primal Movement = You run faster 1% for each of your Ranger levels if you are wearing cloth or light armor (like rogue)

Tier four

How Bulls, you create an incredible defense coming from your muscles
~ Bull Muscles = add your Strength modifier as primal natural armor bonus(or half your Strength modifier)

[DevilYouKnow]

~ Killer: When you kill a target, you gain a 5% morale bonus to Doublestrike and Doubleshot for 10 seconds. Weak enemies will not always produce this effect. The Killer buff can stack up to 2/3/4 times. Decrements by 1 every 10 seconds. (Repeating Crossbows have a reduced chance to produce extra shots)

/signed

But do the same for assassins too please.

[Delacroix21]

Steelstar can we get the tempest changes posted today please? Im bored at work.

[DevilYouKnow]

Steelstar can we get the tempest changes posted today please? Im bored at work.

Yes please, pretty please.

[Steelstar]

Tempest is still on its way! Soon.

As for Deepwood Stalker, here's a few of the changes that have been made since start of this thread. We've mentioned a few of these already (and still have some plans for a few others) but here's what definitely in the pipeline right now:

• Each Core ability after the first one now grants an extra use of Animal Empathy
• Improved Weapon Finesse no longer requires the Weapon Finesse feat at all
• Improved Weapon Finesse now also applies DEX to damage with Thrown Weapons
• Stacks of Killer now reduce one at a time (as opposed to dropping the whole stack)
• Head Shot/Head Strike's DC now includes Tactical Feat bonuses
• Head Shot/Head Strike's cooldown has been reduced to 12 seconds.

[Vargouille]

Tempest is still on its way! Soon.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...empest-Changes

[CThruTheEgo]

[*]Stacks of Killer now reduce one at a time (as opposed to dropping the whole stack)

Is this going to apply to assassin's killer enhancement as well?

[Unsmitten]

Tempest is still on its way! Soon.

As for Deepwood Stalker, here's a few of the changes that have been made since start of this thread. We've mentioned a few of these already (and still have some plans for a few others) but here's what definitely in the pipeline right now:

• Each Core ability after the first one now grants an extra use of Animal Empathy
• Improved Weapon Finesse no longer requires the Weapon Finesse feat at all
• Improved Weapon Finesse now also applies DEX to damage with Thrown Weapons
• Stacks of Killer now reduce one at a time (as opposed to dropping the whole stack)
• Head Shot/Head Strike's DC now includes Tactical Feat bonuses
• Head Shot/Head Strike's cooldown has been reduced to 12 seconds.

Blind on Head Shot is really pointless, make it a 3 second stun. If you are doing blind because it makes the mob affected; able to be sneak attacked, sniper shot already does that. Blind is the most frustating CC in the game, especially for melee. Nothing worse then chasing your target around randomly, possibly pulling more mobs in the process. The situations where blind is useful is miniscule. My sugestion is basically what others have asked for. Make it a stun, and give it additional effects vs Favored Enemies.

[DevilYouKnow]

Tempest is still on its way! Soon.

As for Deepwood Stalker, here's a few of the changes that have been made since start of this thread. We've mentioned a few of these already (and still have some plans for a few others) but here's what definitely in the pipeline right now:

• Each Core ability after the first one now grants an extra use of Animal Empathy
• Improved Weapon Finesse no longer requires the Weapon Finesse feat at all
• Improved Weapon Finesse now also applies DEX to damage with Thrown Weapons
  
• Stacks of Killer now reduce one at a time (as opposed to dropping the whole stack)
• Head Shot/Head Strike's DC now includes Tactical Feat bonuses
• Head Shot/Head Strike's cooldown has been reduced to 12 seconds.

Is it going to apply to the assassin's killer enhancement as well ? It has the same problem of clearing all stacks upon timer expiration.

[Steelstar]

Is this going to apply to assassin's killer enhancement as well?

Yes.

Blind on Head Shot is really pointless, make it a 3 second stun. If you are doing blind because it makes the mob affected; able to be sneak attacked, sniper shot already does that. Blind is the most frustating CC in the game, especially for melee. Nothing worse then chasing your target around randomly, possibly pulling more mobs in the process. The situations where blind is useful is miniscule. My sugestion is basically what others have asked for. Make it a stun, and give it additional effects vs Favored Enemies.

We'll be keeping a further eye on that ability. However, the latter half of what you're saying sounds a lot more like Fear than Blind.

• When Blinded, monsters tend to stop spellcasting, especially spells that require hard targets. (They'll still do AOEs if they're fairly certain you're close enough). It's a solid way to shut down spellcasters.
• They do have a tendency to step a few feet away and swing around, as they aren't so sure where you are. But that tends to be <10 feet away from their target, and if you're making any sort of noise, they should stay nearby. Such as walking, or hitting them in the face with your melee weapons.
• They should not, however, run headlong in the opposite direction for the duration of the effect. That's Fear.

[Unsmitten]

Yes.



We'll be keeping a further eye on that ability. However, the latter half of what you're saying sounds a lot more like Fear than Blind.

• When Blinded, monsters tend to stop spellcasting, especially spells that require hard targets. (They'll still do AOEs if they're fairly certain you're close enough). It's a solid way to shut down spellcasters.
• They do have a tendency to step a few feet away and swing around, as they aren't so sure where you are. But that tends to be <10 feet away from their target, and if you're making any sort of noise, they should stay nearby. Such as walking, or hitting them in the face with your melee weapons.
• They should not, however, run headlong in the opposite direction for the duration of the effect. That's Fear.

Fear certainly does that, fear is very infrequently used nowadays though. As far as the annoyance of blinds is in the "lag" mechanic where they run around your character and when you turn and try to hit them it's like you are hitting air and get no numbers.

Another thought is that since DWS is going to be a hybrid tree now, what about making the melee/ranged multi-selectors just give both versions instead of picking one. Thanks for the quick response.

[Grace_ana]

This is the first class pass that I've been genuinely unhappy with, and that depresses me because I like rangers a lot. But it's harder and harder to play them without falling further and further behind the pack.

I really think we need some answers on:

1. Why no crit bonuses?

2. Why no additional sneak attack?

3. Why is favored enemy so weak?

4. How is a lesser vigor supposed to be useful past level 10 (no matter how many of them you get)?

5. Why no alacrity when you guys realized you needed it just a few months ago during the mechanic pass?

These are the questions people keep asking, and they've been completely avoided so far. I don't know how to have a discussion on the pass without the very serious issues being addressed. Right now, the pass is less than underwhelming.

[CThruTheEgo]

Yes.

Sweet! Thank you!

[DevilYouKnow]

Sweet! Thank you!

Indeed !

[sjbb87]

[*]Stacks of Killer now reduce one at a time (as opposed to dropping the whole stack)

great xD

[CeltEireson]

Tempest is still on its way! Soon.

As for Deepwood Stalker, here's a few of the changes that have been made since start of this thread. We've mentioned a few of these already (and still have some plans for a few others) but here's what definitely in the pipeline right now:

• Each Core ability after the first one now grants an extra use of Animal Empathy
• Improved Weapon Finesse no longer requires the Weapon Finesse feat at all
• Improved Weapon Finesse now also applies DEX to damage with Thrown Weapons
• Stacks of Killer now reduce one at a time (as opposed to dropping the whole stack)
• Head Shot/Head Strike's DC now includes Tactical Feat bonuses
• Head Shot/Head Strike's cooldown has been reduced to 12 seconds.

Thanks Steelstar, though you might want to update the list on the first page for anyone just coming to the discussion

Even with the additional animal empathies the lesser vigor effects are very underwhelming - at low levels you're better chugging a potion, at higher levels you'll most likely get better self healing just from casting cure serious. Even with healing amp and the additional positive spellpower it just doesn't provide much healing and given that the animal empathy is also used for mark of the hunted, which is more useful, Id be tempted to say remove the lesser vigor enhancement altogether and replace it with something better.

Also whilst its maybe thematic to include additional options for wild empathy - its not that useful past heroic or even late heroic. Aside from the fact that you tend to get fewer animals or magical beasts later in the game, the save on it is only 1d20 + ranger level + charisma bonus (according to wiki anyways) and lets face it there aren't going to be many rangers with a high charisma. I understand that not all enhancements have to be useful all the way through the game, but you might want to throw in some bonuses to the abilities into increased empathy/versatile empathy.

Just to ask again about changes to the animation. I understand there were other reasons for changing the animations for xbows (due to problems with special attacks) but the other effect was to increase the effect that things like haste or ranged alacrity had on the rate of fire. Would be nice if bows got the same workover so that alacrity affected the entire loading/firing time.

Its also a bit hard to comment on this enhancement tree from a ranged point of view because a certain amount depends on how AA is done - I suspect anyone favouring ranged will be investing in both trees to a greater or lesser extent so without knowing what's considered 'low hanging' and useful in AA its hard to say how good this tree is. My main issue with AA is that all the active shots are spellpoint based which puts me off the tree as I dislike having to manage spellpoints on a character Im playing as an archer not a mage. Not a big deal if there are decent passive abilities low down that complement the ranged from DWS, even if its not maybe quite as high dps wise compared to taking AA to capstone and investing a small amount in DWS. My main worry is the time gap - if AA comes around and the abilities in it don't really complement the DWS ones, it might be quite some time before you look at ranger again.

Its also somewhat hard to comment without knowing what the coming changes for manyshot are and how they interact with this tree and AA, and general stuff like doubleshot/alacrity etc.

Re headshot - I assume that Know the Angles would increase the DC, just in case I decide to invest in Harper and DWS rather than DWS/AA.

Still like to see the 1d6 sneak attack damage per core but then Im greedy.

[FranOhmsford]

Yes.



We'll be keeping a further eye on that ability. However, the latter half of what you're saying sounds a lot more like Fear than Blind.

• When Blinded, monsters tend to stop spellcasting, especially spells that require hard targets. (They'll still do AOEs if they're fairly certain you're close enough). It's a solid way to shut down spellcasters.
• They do have a tendency to step a few feet away and swing around, as they aren't so sure where you are. But that tends to be <10 feet away from their target, and if you're making any sort of noise, they should stay nearby. Such as walking, or hitting them in the face with your melee weapons.
• They should not, however, run headlong in the opposite direction for the duration of the effect. That's Fear.

Having got a Divine Vengeance I can say that the Blind effect off of Radiance is incredibly annoying!

The mobs run around in circles {REALLY fast!}, spin around, jerk around and generally make any sort of clickie attack an absolute no-no because they won't be there when the attack goes off!

At times they do also run off in the opposite direction {no this isn't the same as Fear but it is similar!}. They usually come back quite quick but the problem is thye simply won't stand still while blind NOT FOR EVEN A SECOND!

I understand that this is realistic - You're blinded in combat you get the heck out of there!
BUT
It's really annoying for a supposed beneficial effect to be in essence a curse!

Yes this same argument also applies to Fear - Blindness and Fear effects are good for Ranged Characters but atrocious for melees! {Divine Vengeance is a lovely sword but as it's clearly meant for a Paladin Tank Melee build who's not exactly the most maneuverable character the Radiance effect does rather spoil it!}.