Ranger: Deepwood Stalker Changes

[Steve_Howe]

I agree its not ranged only tree Stalker should be the hybrid tree and offer multi-selectors for most things. That said I think Deepwood should have an insta-kill, I also think Rangers should not be Assassinate things like a Rogue does hence why if Deepwood gets an insta-kill it should be Ranged only.

Hmmm. Ok. Seems reasonable enough to at least consider.

[CeltEireson]

That's not what Archers Focus does. Archers focus is not +damage is +damage% there is a big difference.

Although looking at it its not as bad a I first thought - but having deadly as the same bonus does mean that you wont see any benefit from archers focus until you've gotten a fair number of levels of it, though it obviously depends on what your base damage is like.

[Krelar]

Although looking at it its not as bad a I first thought - but having deadly as the same bonus does mean that you wont see any benefit from archers focus until you've gotten a fair number of levels of it, though it obviously depends on what your base damage is like.

It's now going add ranged power not damage now so it doesn't matter anymore. (unless they type it the same as some other source of ranged power just to spite you )

[Lauf]

Tier Two
~ Survivalist I: (2 AP) You gain 10 hit points. While wearing Light Armor you gain 3 Physical Resistance Rating. (This is in Favored Defense's old spot).

Tier Three
~ Survivalist II: (2 AP) You gain 20 hit points. While wearing Light Armor you gain 4 Physical Resistance Rating. (Requires Survivalist I)

Tier Four
~ Survivalist III: (2 AP) You gain 30 hit points. While wearing Light Armor you gain 5 Physical Resistance Rating. (Requires Survivalist II)

this may be a silly question, but do these bonuses all stack?
meaning, if you took all 3 would you have +30hp and +5 PRR over regular light armor, or +60hp and +12PRR?

[Grailhawk]

this may be a silly question, but do these bonuses all stack?
meaning, if you took all 3 would you have +30hp and +5 PRR over regular light armor, or +60hp and +12PRR?

the way enhancements usually work it will be +60hp and +12PRR.

[Grailhawk]

but having deadly as the same bonus does mean that you wont see any benefit from archers focus until you've gotten a fair number of levels of it, though it obviously depends on what your base damage is like.

The bonus type has nothing to do with it Archers Focus increases deadly so say you have a 10% Archers Focus stack and a +10 Deadly Item that means you will you will get an extra 1 damage from the deadly item.

So you do 100 damage with no Archers Focus then you will do 110 damage with a 10% stack of Archers Focus.

Changing Archers focus to Ranged power changes that a little bit because of how Ranged power stacks with itself but its close enough to be the same for this example.

[Mryal]

Interesting changes, specialy since it boosts melee and ranged at once and welcomes dex to bows without locking you into elf.Except...

Seems reasonable at first glance except head shot - given how frequently you tend to get criticals anyways Im not entirely sure why you consider a guaranteed critical so powerful that it needs to have a one minute cooldown. Its not as if the enhancement has any bonus to critical damage, and in terms of working with epic abilities such as fury shot - youre practically guaranteed a critical with fury shot as is.

As for the 500 damage on a vorpal - I always took this to mean a vorpal on the head shot - which given the cooldown is 1 minute and a vorpal is a 1 in 20 chance means that on average you will see that damage appear after 20 shots or 19 minutes i.e. you'll be lucky to see it fire off more than once or twice in the average quest. Basically average over a quest its pretty much next to no increase in DPS and on higher level quests its next to nothing. Its also doesn't get multiplied up the same way that Arrow of Slaying damage does as far as I'm aware.

If you're keeping the main benefit as it is the cooldown needs to come down to maybe 20-30 seconds - work out how many times you'll fire a bow over a one minute period and how much damage one extra critical represents - the extra DPS from this is negligible. That's fine for shots that have some other effect like slow etc but for something that is straight up damage its not that useful.

Why not change it to an effect of some sort - how about a percentage chance to stun given that you're hitting their head or DC based off a skill or attribute, or even a 100% chance to daze. Something a bit more interesting and of benefit than a miniscule increase in damage.

I agree.At least reduce cooldown, its a very weak tier 5.

[mikarddo]

Maybe I am overlooking something but how is this supposed to make rangers compete with mech rogues for ranged dps?

[ForgettableNPC]

I like these additions and changes.

Deepwood Stalker seemed like the odd one out that almost nobody took except to be quirky.
I was planning to try it when I cycled back to Ranger life, but now I have more of a reason to! Yay!

[Saekee]

Went online to check out my old ranger - still a few things that would likely need changed:

Rogue version of move silently / faster sneaking: Stealthy: +1/+2/+3 Hide and Move Silently. +25/50/75% movement speed while sneaking.

They get it all for 1 point per level, and 75% bonus to sneak speed as opposed to 50% on the current deepwood stalker.

Empathic healing is still rather weak for 2 points per level - given that rangers already have better forms of healing. Even with tier 3 of increased empathy that's still only 8 uses of a very minor form of healing, especially as youd probably be saving the animal empathy for mark of the hunted. Maybe think about having animal empathy regenerate slowly over time the same way smite or turn undead, say if tier 3 of animal increased empathy is taken, or if tier 2 of empathetic healing is taken.

yes was wondering too re stealth speed if it will be 75% like assassins

[Steve_Howe]

Maybe I am overlooking something but how is this supposed to make rangers compete with mech rogues for ranged dps?

+20% more chance to Double Shot is very nice.

[Grailhawk]

Maybe I am overlooking something but how is this supposed to make rangers compete with mech rogues for ranged dps?

Need to see what the other trees provide before going down that route, if the other trees have crit multipliers or threat ranges in there Tier 5, LV12 Core, or LV18 Core this should be ok.

[Grailhawk]

yes was wondering too re stealth speed if it will be 75% like assassins

Just an IMO here but I don't think it should be Rogues should be better at that kind of think.

[Saekee]

Just an IMO here but I don't think it should be Rogues should be better at that kind of think.

the rangers may need it more though since they do not have the acrobat movement speed buff

[HastyPudding]

Agreed with pretty much everything except Head Shot and Empathic Healing. The difference between Head Shot and Sniper Shot is absolutely hilarious, considering one is tier 5 and the other is in a low level core.

My suggestions:
- Move Head Shot to the 4th core (level 12) and lower the cooldown to 20 or 30 seconds. Maybe add +2[W] because it's very lackluster.
- Move Sniper Shot/Exposing Strike to tier 5 in the tree.
- Move Empathic Healing to the 3rd core (level 6)
- Change Empathic Healing to add the lesser vigor, vigor, and greater vigor spells to the level 1, 2, and 4 ranger spell lists.

[Grailhawk]

the rangers may need it more though since they do not have the acrobat movement speed buff

Why? Rangers aren't sneaking around in combat trying to get an assassinate most the time, and those that are have rogue levels.

Also i have hope for tempest getting a movement speed boost.

[Cetus]

Tendon cut is a terrible ability - what we're gonna slow one big bad trash mob by 50% for 10 seconds? And a 15 second cooldown?

Awful

[Steelstar]

~ Improved Weapon Finesse: This now also applies to Bows....
- And throwing Weapons?

At this time, just Bows.

~ Survivalist II: (2 AP) You gain 20 hit points. While wearing Light Armor you gain 4 Physical Resistance Rating. (Requires Survivalist I)
Do these work in cloth armor? I am assuming it is intentional as is?

Means what it says - Light armor only, does not work with Robes or Outfits.

Is Manyshot going to see a change with the ranger pass? Important to know one way or the other, wrt double shot bonuses and more.

We are still considering changes to Manyshot which may be coming soon, but may not be at the same time as this Ranger pass.

Do you realize that the change to precise shot is actually a nerf? 30% increased damage is 30% of (100%+RP%)* total damage whereas 30 ranged power is (100%+RP%+30)* total damage. With 30 ranged power vs 30% increased damage you're losing effectively 30% * your original ranged power *total damage in damage.

My suggestion, since I'm confident you DON'T want to nerf rangers in this pass is to make precise shot's bonus scale upwards in epics to compensate, or just don't change precise shot.

The change is an intentional one. We'll be bumping each stack of Archer's Focus to +3 Ranged Power to bring it a bit closer to where it was (already updated in the OP).

Seems reasonable at first glance except head shot - given how frequently you tend to get criticals anyways Im not entirely sure why you consider a guaranteed critical so powerful that it needs to have a one minute cooldown. Its not as if the enhancement has any bonus to critical damage, and in terms of working with epic abilities such as fury shot - youre practically guaranteed a critical with fury shot as is.

As for the 500 damage on a vorpal - I always took this to mean a vorpal on the head shot - which given the cooldown is 1 minute and a vorpal is a 1 in 20 chance means that on average you will see that damage appear after 20 shots or 19 minutes i.e. you'll be lucky to see it fire off more than once or twice in the average quest. Basically average over a quest its pretty much next to no increase in DPS and on higher level quests its next to nothing. Its also doesn't get multiplied up the same way that Arrow of Slaying damage does as far as I'm aware.

If you're keeping the main benefit as it is the cooldown needs to come down to maybe 20-30 seconds - work out how many times you'll fire a bow over a one minute period and how much damage one extra critical represents - the extra DPS from this is negligible. That's fine for shots that have some other effect like slow etc but for something that is straight up damage its not that useful.

Why not change it to an effect of some sort - how about a percentage chance to stun given that you're hitting their head or DC based off a skill or attribute, or even a 100% chance to daze. Something a bit more interesting and of benefit than a miniscule increase in damage.

Good info here, we'll take a look at Head Shot.

Oh and regards Archers Focus - given that the basic archers focus is of the same damage type as the Deadly attribute on items we pretty much lose most of the benefit of this as it is. We' currently up to +12 damage from deadly items, basic archers focus is only 15 - so at best we get an extra 3 damage and we have to get the stacks that high in the first place. Think it should be changed to a different type that stacks with deadly.

Again may be wrong about this and I'm basing it on old posts.

Like others said, Archer's Focus is a bonus to Ranged Power while Deadly is a bonus to base damage - They do stack, since they're different properties.

this may be a silly question, but do these bonuses all stack?
meaning, if you took all 3 would you have +30hp and +5 PRR over regular light armor, or +60hp and +12PRR?

Yes, all three tiers of Survivalist stack.

[Evin_Drake]

This sounds like you still need the weapon Finesse Feat. Can this be changed to: Adds Dex to damage with bows. Also, adds Dex to damage with finessable weapons if you have the Weapon Finesse feat.

That way you keep the versatility for those who want to switch between ranged and melee combat, but don't force a feat on someone that only wants to be a ranged character.

Just a thought.

[Kielbasa]

The changes are nice definately a lot of nonsense looks removed or intelligently consolidated. Still there's nothing in here to make me consider swapping from an int based repeater build currently in use on my pure ranger back to using a bow. Not sure if tier 5 is compelling enough to give up arrow of slaying. I really need to do the math to see if all of the potential ranged power in here is worth investing in.