Ranger: Deepwood Stalker Changes

[Fecerak]

You are going to get kicked if you are not able to put out enough dps, while running defiler of the just for example.

No one wants to spare a spot for a flavor build.

It's really easy to respec enhancements though, and I don't feel like every tree needs to be focused on the same thing necessarily (end-game dps). Use tempest if you want dps and DWS if you want utility and abilities that are strong when soloing could be a nice way to balance the enhancements in my mind.

[sjbb87]

Hello everyone.
First of all, avoid force Dexterity builds. It's been done with the rogues, do not do it for too rangers, Let hybrid.
The tree of DWS, need to focus more in the wild, some examples below.

Core 5

Perfect Hide in Plain Sight: You win the BENEFITS of Hide in Plain Sight even on the move.


Tier one
Ranger live in the forest and moving well, as no one among the trees

~ Primal Movement = You run faster 1% for each of your Ranger levels if you are wearing cloth or light armor (like rogue)

Tier four

How Bulls, you create an incredible defense coming from your muscles
~ Bull Muscles = add half your Strength modifier as primal natural armor bonus

I believe we can improve the tier 5 as the players are already discussing as well.

[nibel]

Enforcing a certain playstyle is not a pro for the tree.

We will have to end up agreeing on disagreeing, because we disagree on a basic level of the argument. To me, if you give a tank +1 damage for taking damage and a rogue +1 damage for being hidden, both are superior options than plain +1 damage.

KotC gets extra damage because he's lawful. Rogue gets extra damage because it's sneak attacking. Ranger gets extra damage because he's close to the enemy. Warlock gets extra damage because he has a pact. Barbarian gets extra damage because he's brutal. Etc. Most of those abilities providing extra damage do not even need a playstyle. Just extra damage supported by "lore" that gets weaker and weaker.

And that is wrong. And bad. Badong.

[barecm]

Can't a bard use the ranged selector of Coup De grace and take the Improved Precise Shot line and do the same thing at level 12?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Swashbuckler...ents#Tier_Five

http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Precise_Shot

Well I guess they might have to wait until there Base Attack Bonus is high enough, but a Bard could still do this...

Yes with a prerequisite of being disabled appropriately. An instakill headshot with no sneak attack or disabling prerequisite is more powerful. I am not 100% against it, i just don't think a straight up instakill is what is needed or what the devs will let happen. We are more likely, even if a small chance, to get a crit/vorpal threat expansion.

[DevilYouKnow]

Yes with a prerequisite of being disabled appropriately. An instakill headshot with no sneak attack or disabling prerequisite is more powerful. I am not 100% against it, i just don't think a straight up instakill is what is needed or what the devs will let happen. We are more likely, even if a small chance, to get a crit/vorpal threat expansion.

I think the devs said they are unlikely to give out any threat range expansions, regarding further class changes.

[Mindos]

Yes with a prerequisite of being disabled appropriately. An instakill headshot with no sneak attack or disabling prerequisite is more powerful. I am not 100% against it, i just don't think a straight up instakill is what is needed or what the devs will let happen. We are more likely, even if a small chance, to get a crit/vorpal threat expansion.

Lucky for the Bard, they also have a ranged ability to disable mobs appropriately! It's the same that anyone can take: Shiradi epic destiny. Otto's whistler, with Improved Precise Shot, and then Coup De grace.

I only mention this because I am comparing Ranger to the other classes, especially ones that IMHO are doing things the ranger used to do, but only better. The rogue mechanic is better at ranged damage, the bard swashbuckler is better at insta-kill sniping with fascinate at lower levels, the Druid has better summons, etc. What is this class supposed to do? What makes it great or different from the others? Where does it shine?

It gets the TWF feats for free. It gets str to damage for bow for free. But all its boosts are to dex. And its enchancement trees? Arcane Archer can be had with any Elf. Deepwood Stalker is meh, a (insert Sev quote here) tree. That leaves us with Tempest. So Ranger is supposed to excel at TWF, with great doublestike and off-hand attacks. That's it? That's the class? Just like 14pal/6rgr does better?

This is just underwelmingly performing. When the other classes trees were previewed, all we heard was WOW and OMG. And then we get this. So few replies compared to when the other classes were done and a definate lack of wow- how can they do that kind of feeling. Remember, when the bard and paladin buff happened, people starting screaming for the nerf RIGHT AWAY- while it was just on the forums, while it was on lamm, and even after release! (and some still now) Compare that, to this thread? NO ONE is calling for a nerf. Not one person is claiming ranger will be overpowered.

Devs, you call this balance? Not an attack! I think you should sit down and think about what you think balance is. And what you want this class to do, and do well. And then ask yourself, why is the reaction so different this time?

[Xionanx]

If you are trying to "Define Ranger" as something different then all the other classes and make them stand out, then IMO all three of the tree's that ranger currently has need be gutted and redone entirely.

What the "Ranger" needs to be defining:

A) Rangers need to be the best choice for TWF'ing OR Bows, depending on the combat style you choose. They get the feats for free and the enhancements in the tree's should reflect that by giving +Dam +AC +Dodge +PRR +MRR and +Melee Power/Ranged Power while wielding TWO WEAPONS or BOW, depending on which combat style you picked.. (which I guess the "tempest tree" kind of does, but it doesn't do it enough... guess will have to wait for Tempest change announcements) Basically, IMO "Tempest" should have either or choices to apply its enhancements to either TWF OR BOWS.

B) Rangers are the only class that gets favored enemies. Favored enemy bonus's need to be at a minimum DOUBLE any other class's flat damage bonus. Mechanic gets +1 to hit/damage on a crossbow? Ranger, for the same AP cost, should get a +2 to hit/dam against favored enemies. YY Class gets +X Melee/Ranged Power.. Ranger should get +X*2 Melee/Ranged Power against Favored Enemies. I would even go so far to add a percent chance that you just insta-kill favored enemies, for instance as a "core" ability, any "vorpal" against a favored enemy results in an insta-kill.

C) Rangers need their animal companion. There is literally no reason not to add this now, and it "might" help some..

So, with that in mind I would:

1. Redo the "Tempest" tree to be a hybrid tree, where you pick your combat style and then apply the bonus to either bows or TWF (probably rename the tree)
2. Redo the "Stalker" tree to be the "Sneak & Favored Enemy" tree, so that it reflects stalking your favored enemies and then killing them before they can retaliate.
3. Arcane Archer, remove it from Ranger, spin it off and sell it separately like the Harper tree. In its place put in the "Animal Bond/Master" tree, which concentrates on enhancing the Ranger based on their chosen Animal Companion: Bear = more tanky ranger, Tiger = more dodge/acc, Wolf = something else. So the enhancements would not only make the ranger "better" based on the companion chosen, but also boost the companion itself.

or if Arcane Archer has to stay with ranger.

3a. Make all the damage bonus's granted by Arcane Archer scale with "Spell Power" so 1d10 force is scaled with say 150% force Spell Power. Increase the base elemental damage die to be based on ranger level. IE, rather then +1d6 Acid Damage, it would instead be +[W]1d6 Acid damage where [W] = 1/2 Ranger Level (so that a 20th level Ranger AA is doing 10d6 "Elemental" Imbue damage)

[barecm]

If you are trying to "Define Ranger" as something different then all the other classes and make them stand out, then IMO all three of the tree's that ranger currently has need be gutted and redone entirely.

What the "Ranger" needs to be defining:

A) Rangers need to be the best choice for TWF'ing OR Bows, depending on the combat style you choose. They get the feats for free and the enhancements in the tree's should reflect that by giving +Dam +AC +Dodge +PRR +MRR and +Melee Power/Ranged Power while wielding TWO WEAPONS or BOW, depending on which combat style you picked.. (which I guess the "tempest tree" kind of does, but it doesn't do it enough... guess will have to wait for Tempest change announcements) Basically, IMO "Tempest" should have either or choices to apply its enhancements to either TWF OR BOWS.

B) Rangers are the only class that gets favored enemies. Favored enemy bonus's need to be at a minimum DOUBLE any other class's flat damage bonus. Mechanic gets +1 to hit/damage on a crossbow? Ranger, for the same AP cost, should get a +2 to hit/dam against favored enemies. YY Class gets +X Melee/Ranged Power.. Ranger should get +X*2 Melee/Ranged Power against Favored Enemies. I would even go so far to add a percent chance that you just insta-kill favored enemies, for instance as a "core" ability, any "vorpal" against a favored enemy results in an insta-kill.

C) Rangers need their animal companion. There is literally no reason not to add this now, and it "might" help some..

So, with that in mind I would:

1. Redo the "Tempest" tree to be a hybrid tree, where you pick your combat style and then apply the bonus to either bows or TWF (probably rename the tree)
2. Redo the "Stalker" tree to be the "Sneak & Favored Enemy" tree, so that it reflects stalking your favored enemies and then killing them before they can retaliate.
3. Arcane Archer, remove it from Ranger, spin it off and sell it separately like the Harper tree. In its place put in the "Animal Bond/Master" tree, which concentrates on enhancing the Ranger based on their chosen Animal Companion: Bear = more tanky ranger, Tiger = more dodge/acc, Wolf = something else. So the enhancements would not only make the ranger "better" based on the companion chosen, but also boost the companion itself.

or if Arcane Archer has to stay with ranger.

3a. Make all the damage bonus's granted by Arcane Archer scale with "Spell Power" so 1d10 force is scaled with say 150% force Spell Power. Increase the base elemental damage die to be based on ranger level. IE, rather then +1d6 Acid Damage, it would instead be +[W]1d6 Acid damage where [W] = 1/2 Ranger Level (so that a 20th level Ranger AA is doing 10d6 "Elemental" Imbue damage)

No matter how you define ranger, I think we can all agree that a rogue or shiuriken thrower should not be ranged dps kings.

[Qhualor]

If you are trying to "Define Ranger" as something different then all the other classes and make them stand out, then IMO all three of the tree's that ranger currently has need be gutted and redone entirely.

What the "Ranger" needs to be defining:

A) Rangers need to be the best choice for TWF'ing OR Bows, depending on the combat style you choose. They get the feats for free and the enhancements in the tree's should reflect that by giving +Dam +AC +Dodge +PRR +MRR and +Melee Power/Ranged Power while wielding TWO WEAPONS or BOW, depending on which combat style you picked.. (which I guess the "tempest tree" kind of does, but it doesn't do it enough... guess will have to wait for Tempest change announcements) Basically, IMO "Tempest" should have either or choices to apply its enhancements to either TWF OR BOWS.

B) Rangers are the only class that gets favored enemies. Favored enemy bonus's need to be at a minimum DOUBLE any other class's flat damage bonus. Mechanic gets +1 to hit/damage on a crossbow? Ranger, for the same AP cost, should get a +2 to hit/dam against favored enemies. YY Class gets +X Melee/Ranged Power.. Ranger should get +X*2 Melee/Ranged Power against Favored Enemies. I would even go so far to add a percent chance that you just insta-kill favored enemies, for instance as a "core" ability, any "vorpal" against a favored enemy results in an insta-kill.

C) Rangers need their animal companion. There is literally no reason not to add this now, and it "might" help some..

So, with that in mind I would:

1. Redo the "Tempest" tree to be a hybrid tree, where you pick your combat style and then apply the bonus to either bows or TWF (probably rename the tree)
2. Redo the "Stalker" tree to be the "Sneak & Favored Enemy" tree, so that it reflects stalking your favored enemies and then killing them before they can retaliate.
3. Arcane Archer, remove it from Ranger, spin it off and sell it separately like the Harper tree. In its place put in the "Animal Bond/Master" tree, which concentrates on enhancing the Ranger based on their chosen Animal Companion: Bear = more tanky ranger, Tiger = more dodge/acc, Wolf = something else. So the enhancements would not only make the ranger "better" based on the companion chosen, but also boost the companion itself.

or if Arcane Archer has to stay with ranger.

3a. Make all the damage bonus's granted by Arcane Archer scale with "Spell Power" so 1d10 force is scaled with say 150% force Spell Power. Increase the base elemental damage die to be based on ranger level. IE, rather then +1d6 Acid Damage, it would instead be +[W]1d6 Acid damage where [W] = 1/2 Ranger Level (so that a 20th level Ranger AA is doing 10d6 "Elemental" Imbue damage)

well, technically a ranger should be a jack of all trades. it shouldn't be the best with bows or the best at TWF. this isn't to say they should suck at it either. what I would rather see is at level 2 you choose your path, bow or TWF. at level 2, 6 and 11 you can improve your choice with combat style as a free feat. that is where the devs could add stuff like MP/RP just like they did with barbarian Greater Rage. it doesn't mean a TWF cant invest in bows or vice versa, but that's what DWS would be great for. enhancements and cores could have their usual choices of boosting that power.

a) Tempest should be the TWF tree. not a either or tree. that's what DWS sort of is as proposed.

b) I agree that FE needs a bump. I even think with all the different types of mobs in the game that there should be an opportunity in a tree to choose more. since DWS is the filler tree, maybe that is the tree that would make more sense. i don't know about insta kill FE, but increased damage and saves against them would be fine with me.

c) i would only care about ranger animal companions if they were at minimum just as good as a druid wolf or artificer dog. other than that, yes they should have a companion.

1. no thanks. Tempest should be TWF.
2. i don't care for "sneak and stalker" tree, but the name of the tree makes no nevermind to me.
3. now i see what you are doing. Tempest as the dps tree. DWS as a FE tree. AA as the pet tree. i smell cookie cutter.

[Xionanx]

well, technically a ranger should be a jack of all trades. it shouldn't be the best with bows or the best at TWF. this isn't to say they should suck at it either. what I would rather see is at level 2 you choose your path, bow or TWF. at level 2, 6 and 11 you can improve your choice with combat style as a free feat. that is where the devs could add stuff like MP/RP just like they did with barbarian Greater Rage. it doesn't mean a TWF cant invest in bows or vice versa, but that's what DWS would be great for. enhancements and cores could have their usual choices of boosting that power.

a) Tempest should be the TWF tree. not a either or tree. that's what DWS sort of is as proposed.

b) I agree that FE needs a bump. I even think with all the different types of mobs in the game that there should be an opportunity in a tree to choose more. since DWS is the filler tree, maybe that is the tree that would make more sense. i don't know about insta kill FE, but increased damage and saves against them would be fine with me.

c) i would only care about ranger animal companions if they were at minimum just as good as a druid wolf or artificer dog. other than that, yes they should have a companion.

1. no thanks. Tempest should be TWF.
2. i don't care for "sneak and stalker" tree, but the name of the tree makes no nevermind to me.
3. now i see what you are doing. Tempest as the dps tree. DWS as a FE tree. AA as the pet tree. i smell cookie cutter.

I really don't see a way to make Ranger "unique" without doing the above change. Basically D&D/DDO only has 3 types of damage. Melee, Ranged, and Spell. When Turbine decided to make "Feats" less powerful by making "Enhancements" more powerful, they put the coffin nail in the "Feat" portion of a class making them unique, which is what Ranger had going for it in DDO.. its free feats.

When every other class has enhancements that make the ranger enhancements seem weak, all a ranger has left is its "Favored Enemies".. and that is so pitiful its not even worth mentioning in epics.

Basically a ranger is nothing more then a fighter who specializes in sneaking in the woods, can cast a few spells, and has a pet. Which in Tabletop is actually nice.. because you know, ROLEPLAY and skills that come in handy on adventures. But in DDO, 99.9% of the game is about optimal combat, you are better off going Pally/Fighter. So IMO the enhancements in Ranger should be powerful enough to actually spark a debate on in going Pure Ranger is better then Going Pally/Fighter.

IMO, people need to give up on the "Concept" that a Ranger is a "Jack of all trades master of none" and adopt a NEW concept based on what the Ranger NEEDS TO BE IN DDO. The Ranger, needs to be the BEST(or very close) at TWF, OR the BEST at using a BOW. But NOT BOTH, which is why I suggest implementing the Tempest tree as an either/or choice tree.

And yeah, the Animal Companion needs to be comparable to the Artificer Pet, complete with its own enhancements and gear.

[nibel]

Tier one
Ranger live in the forest and moving well, as no one among the trees

~ Primal Movement = You run faster 1% for each of your Ranger levels if you are wearing cloth or light armor (like rogue)

No, please. Enough with the 1% speed per level shticks. Extra speed used to be a perk of barbarian and monk, and now fighter, paladin, rogues and bards have extra speed as well. If this thing continue further, they should just drop the ball and give 1% speed as a granted feat for every character to stop this madness.

[Simulacrum_FRG]

Deepwood Stalker, aka DWS, is the stealth tree besides the ranged Arcane Archer and the dual-wielding melee Tempest. It allows to sneak-attack without needing rogue levels.

Halflings, underestimated as usual, can add 3 more sneak-attack dice, so IF you want a stealth-killer who is NOT softy as a rogue due lower hitpoints, and due focus on **** difficult trap disarms, THEN DWS is a pretty good mix. Problem, like many before me noted, is: The tree besides the sneak attacks, offers nothing making it as worthy, as Arcane Archer or Tempest. Imbalance, just needs a hotfix.

My note on the ranger animal companion brought up similar ideas about the 'most fruitless ranger tree' serving to enter animal companion MUCH alike a wizards-pale master skelly. Just words for now, but maybe a hotfix does cure the ranger class.

Now excuse me please, I celebrate ending my VIP investment, as today is the anniversary of the same gay cyberstalker pestering me with more than twenty different chars or toons, and on each server. Sad I never could inspire gorgeous NOT gorgon women to come after me with such fierce persistence!

[Qhualor]

I really don't see a way to make Ranger "unique" without doing the above change. Basically D&D/DDO only has 3 types of damage. Melee, Ranged, and Spell. When Turbine decided to make "Feats" less powerful by making "Enhancements" more powerful, they put the coffin nail in the "Feat" portion of a class making them unique, which is what Ranger had going for it in DDO.. its free feats.

When every other class has enhancements that make the ranger enhancements seem weak, all a ranger has left is its "Favored Enemies".. and that is so pitiful its not even worth mentioning in epics.

Basically a ranger is nothing more then a fighter who specializes in sneaking in the woods, can cast a few spells, and has a pet. Which in Tabletop is actually nice.. because you know, ROLEPLAY and skills that come in handy on adventures. But in DDO, 99.9% of the game is about optimal combat, you are better off going Pally/Fighter. So IMO the enhancements in Ranger should be powerful enough to actually spark a debate on in going Pure Ranger is better then Going Pally/Fighter.

IMO, people need to give up on the "Concept" that a Ranger is a "Jack of all trades master of none" and adopt a NEW concept based on what the Ranger NEEDS TO BE IN DDO. The Ranger, needs to be the BEST(or very close) at TWF, OR the BEST at using a BOW. But NOT BOTH, which is why I suggest implementing the Tempest tree as an either/or choice tree.

And yeah, the Animal Companion needs to be comparable to the Artificer Pet, complete with its own enhancements and gear.

what would go a long way to help the ranger is

1. more focus on Dodge and less on PRR. they should have the second best dodge in the game behind monks. i would say AC too, but its borked.

2. improve/update/add ranger spells.

a. detect snares and pits. ok, not a big boost, but these kinds of traps exist in DDO
b. entangle. needs a boost similar to Evards
c. summon natures ally. pointless and im sure even with druid past lives, augment summoning, etc it still wouldn't be worth a spell slot.
d. barkskin. add PRR to the spell?
e. bears endurance, owls wisdom, cats grace. pointless when you can equip a +4 item at the level you can slot the spell. have it scale and make it stacking +1 at level 8, +2 level 12, +3 level 16 and +4 level 20?
f. snare. needs a boost.
g. spike growth. needs more damage.
h. wind wall. similar to deflect arrows but with a twist.
i. command plants. similar to charm and useful in Druids chain
j. longstrider. add speed? or maybe a stacking striding?

3. favored enemy is the biggest thing that really sticks out in DDO. rangers should be at least comparable in damage to top dps classes all things being equal.

i know that DDO has stretched the imagination and the core of PnP, but doing simple things like above would go a long ways. DDO has elements of PnP, but we need to stop with the over the top exaggeration and bring DDO back down to where it should be. there is too much focus on dps and comparing every class to what the current high powered class is. before i started my TR train a few years ago, i loved playing my ranger as a support healer and dps. i liked playing a character that lowered mob saves and ac so the barbs and fighters could hit them easier and the casters could land spells easier. it felt very natural to me that my character was good at something even though he didn't have the best dps. those days are gone now and its all about kill kill kill. people need to get over that and stop trying to make every class all about dps. its ruining the classes and the game.

[Spekdah_NZ]

I guess looking back at d20 Deepwood Sniper is pretty slim material to try and turn into a whole enhancement tree. If you cannot make it into a full utility tree like Harper, why not pull in some inspiration/abilities from other PRCs if really going down the dipping tree only route? Could maybe make some of these vertical trees? I have no idea what you would call the overall tree though :-)

Sorry don't have links but you can usually google d20 <name> for info.

* Deepwood sniper; focus it down to just a vertical tree
* Order of the Bow Initiate; weapon focus stuff for synergy with fighters
* Stalker of Kharash; smite is kinda meh, but has HIPS and favored enemy evil
* Horizon Walker; Favored terrain, terrain mastery and terrain dominance! Not sure how much here is to work with but could
give insight bonuses to resistances, SLAs for stuff like etheral jaunt and all the other cool effects etc. Likely have to
use selectors to cover all the scenarios, i.e. each level up let player choose a terrain.
* Peerless Archer; too similar with deepwood with SA dice, but could borrow power shot
* Justice of Weald and Woe; for spell list, lucky shot, death attack, also has HIPS and SA dice.
* Mystic Ranger; leftfield variant and not official but has a different spell list and progression

This way each vertical tree could have some pretty cool stuff.

Or could just dump Deepwood altogether and sneak in your first psionic with Soulbow :-)

[Grace_ana]

A. I like that DS can utilize switching off between ranged and TWF a bit more and be a more flexible style. That being said, I don't understand why...
a. Several of the multiselectors in the DS tree force a choice between ranged and TWF. Give bonuses for both. Maybe a 1 pt investment for one and a 2 pt investment to get both so that people can be choosy with their points if they want.

B. It seemed blatantly obvious to the devs during the mechanic pass that the rate of fire needed a big boost to be competitive with melee and casters. So I really can't understand why...
b. There is no alacrity boost in this tree. None. I honestly can't comprehend why not. Without alacrity boosts, ranged will forever stay the red-headed stepchild of DPS.

C. DS is a sneaky tree. There are sneak attack die in the cores, which is great. However...
c. There are only 3 SA dice in the cores if you take the capstone, and that could definitely be boosted. I'd like to see one for each core or alternatively a tier 5 enhancement with a couple more SA dice available.

D. DS has the favored enemy bonuses, and I love love love that they have been consolidated and the cost reduced. But the problem is that...
d. Favored enemy bonuses are still pretty lackluster. Rangers should get a fairly decent boost when facing a favored enemy, compared to other toons. What they have available makes them kinda eh, and the bonuses don't scale well. I'll repeat what others have said and make it additional (W) damage instead of +1/2/3.

E. Making IWF apply to bows is awesomesauce. It will free up a lot more build options and utilization of other trees. If only it wasn't that...
e. Head Shot is still awful. I promise you that if a highly trained ranger shot someone in the head successfully, they would be dead. I don't understand where blinding comes from. If not an instakill (and I can understand why you wouldn't want it to be), it should at least have a more than likely chance to do overwhelming damage. It's a tier 5, and it's a HEAD SHOT. Unless you guys mean glamour shots, in which case carry on, I guess.

F. The added ranged and melee power in this tree makes me happy. Damage really needed a boost for rangers. But on the topic of damage...
f. Crits need a boost. I know people are complaining about power creep, but the crit ship has sailed. People should only run ranged toons with 14 pally because they really like pally or because they want the extra defense or some other reason besides crit bonuses. A crit bonus in the 18 core or capstone would fix that problem nicely. 18 core probably matches what has been done in other trees best.

G. The added defenses are appreciated, because being overly squishy is not. But since part of survivability is healing...
g. Empathetic Healing needs a boost, as others have said. I like another poster's idea of adding boosts to it throughout the cores. That would let it scale better through heroics and keep it from being too much low-hanging fruit.

[FlaviusMaximus]

...but I really want them to add more mechanics that works better against FE

I want that too. Making all of the deepwood abilities do additional damage (including sneak attack damage) and work more effectively against FE would make sense. If a ranger is effective enough at fighting a FE that she gets additional regular damage, it makes sense for the special abilities against FE to also be more effective. A stun and/or special shot usable against favored enemies might make sense as well.

FE bonuses are or at least are intended to be key features of DWS. With some focus on them, they could be what makes DWS an interesting tree.

[Eth]

Is there a scimitar with a x3 critical multiplier? Balizarde covers rapiers but can't think of a single scimitar with an expanded critical range.

Not that that's a deal breaker just saying I think I could see some people saying Stalker has a better weapon selection.

Epic Mirage and Drow Scimitar are 17-20 x2.
For multiplier - no.

[mezzorco]

I think we should stress it more: please give rangers their animal companion.

It is the last chance we players have to make it happen.
So if you want rangers to have their well-deserved pet, make devs know, please /sign.

[Requiro]

Nice changes, but we must see big picure - what AA and Tempest will loook like to

What I will improve is:
- More improvements to Favored Enemies abilites
- More uses and role for Animal Empathy

So this is my suggestions (in RED "S:") and comments (in BLUE):

(...)


(Note on the Archer's Focus Feat: This now adds 3 Ranged Power per stack instead of 2% damage to missile damage.)
Interesting changes. Improvement until you get 200 ranged power. With more ranged power it is nerf.


Core Abilities
~ Called Shoot – S: additional 1 Animal Empathy use per rest.
~ Sneak Attack (4th core): Passive: You also gain +10 Melee Power and Ranged Power (in addition to the things this ability currently does)
S: +10 healing amplification
~ Mark of the Hunted: The Fortification debuff has been raised from 10% to 25%. It now reads: "Activate: Expend a use of Animal Empathy. Your target gains -25% Fortification, -10 Armor Class, -10 Spell Resistance, and suffers a -4 penalty to all ability scores for 3 minutes."
S: Animal Empathy regeneration 1 every 270 second
~ Horizon Shot: Passive: You also gain +20 Melee Power and Ranged Power (in addition to the things this ability currently does)
S: Animal Empathy regeneration is now 1 every 180 second


Tier One
~ Favored Defense: AP cost reduced to 1/1/1 AP. Is no longer a multi-selector, but instead gives the following benefits against Favored Enemies: +2/+4/+6 to Armor Class, +1/+2/+3 Saving Throws, +1/+2/+3 dodge
~ Tendon Cut: Bonus damage increased to +1/+2/+3[W] Great. Even more that I suggest :-)
~ Versatile Empathy: S: Add 3rd rank, that allow Animal Empathy works on all Favored Enemies, and +4 PSP.


Tier Two
~ Survivalist I: (2 AP) You gain 10 hit points. While wearing Light Armor you gain 3 Physical Resistance Rating. (This is in Favored Defense's old spot).
S: Suggestion below to combine Survivalist and Empathic healing.
~ Faster Sneaking: Now costs 1/1/1 AP. Perfect
~ Improved Weapon Finesse: This now also applies to Bows. Marvelous
~ Action Boost: Now costs 1/1/1 AP. Multiselector

* Melee+Ranged Power Boost: (identical to the Knight of the Chalice version) Nerf per damage, Improvement per AP. Overall average.
* Skill Boost: (As per current enhancement) Useless as always.

Tier Three
~ Survivalist II: (2 AP) You gain 20 hit points. While wearing Light Armor you gain 4 Physical Resistance Rating. (Requires Survivalist I)
S: Suggestion below to combine Survivalist and Empathic healing.
~ Favored Hunter: (1/1/1 AP) You gain +1/+2/+3 to hit and damage against favored enemies. (This moved horizontally to the middle of Tier 3) S: +1/+2/+3 maximum dodge
~ Thrill of the Hunt: AP Cost is reduced to 1/1/1 AP. "You gain +1/+2/+3 damage for 6 seconds after damaging an opponent under 50% health." (% is now the same across all three ranks). If there is no stacks, it is week T4 ability. S: 3/5/7 stack, lose one stack on expiration


Tier Four
~ Survivalist III: (2 AP) You gain 30 hit points. While wearing Light Armor you gain 5 Physical Resistance Rating. (Requires Survivalist II)
S: Suggestion below to combine Survivalist and Empathic healing.
~ Hunter's Mercy Good improvements

* Merciful Shot now works if the target is below 50% health (was 20%). The bane damage scales with 100% Ranged Power.
* Merciful Strike now works if the target is below 50% health (was 20%). The bane damage scales with 100% Melee Power.

~ Leg Shot is now identical to the Mechanic version of the same ability (+2[W] damage) Still average ability S: 1 AP cost.


Tier Five
~ Extra Favored Enemy: (No longer requires Favored Damage, since that no longer exists)
S: Add 2nd Tier: Additional Favored Enemy, and +1[W] to ALL Favored Enemies.
~ Head Shot: Multiselector (No longer requires Leg Shot)

* Head Shot: Ranged Attack. +5(W) attack that is automatically considered a critical threat and blinds the opponent for 6 seconds. (Fort DC 14 + Ranger Level + the Dexterity bonus). Cooldown 15 seconds.
* Head Strike: Melee Attack. +5(W) attack that is automatically considered a critical threat and blinds the opponent for 6 seconds. (Fort DC 14 + Ranger Level + the Dexterity bonus). Cooldown 15 seconds.

For me it’s nice improvement. You exchange big occasional number for more frequently and consistent damage. Also great for melee version.

~ Stalker Training: Multiselector

* Improved Archer's Focus: (as per current enhancement) S: 30 instead 25 stacks.
* With Bow and Sword: +10 Ranged Power and +10 Melee Power. Very poor ability for T5. S: +1 ranged and melee power for CHARACTER level.

~ Strikes Like Lightning: You gain 10% Double Strike and 20% Double Shot. If it stack with T5 AA and Tempest Core abilities it is impressive ability. If not, then is just ok and week as T5 ability

Survivalist and Empathic healing combine suggestion:

Remove Empathic healing ability, and replace it with:

~Tier 2: Survivalist I: You gain 10 hit points. While wearing Light Armor you gain 3 Physical Resistance Rating. You may expend a use of Animal Empathy to produce a Lesser Vigor effect. 2 AP, require Increased Empathy

~Tier 3: Survivalist II: You gain 20 hit points (+30 total). While wearing Light Armor you gain 4 Physical Resistance Rating (+7 total). You may expend a use of Animal Empathy to produce a Mass Lesser Vigor effect. 2 AP, require Survivalist I

~Tier 4: Survivalist III: You gain 30 hit points (+60 total). While wearing Light Armor you gain 5 Physical Resistance Rating (+12 total). You may expend a use of Improved Animal Empathy to produce a Regenerate effect. 2 AP, require Survivalist II

This way you move Survivalist line on top of the Increased Empathy, Favored Hunter is on the left, same as Hunter's Mercy.

There is also my suggestion here how to improve AA: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ncements-pass)

[Arlathen]

Ok, I've seen the changes and read the thread so far. My turn for feedback.

1. I do like that DWS is a dual Melee and Ranged enhancement tree. I'm a player who likes his versatility, but I like my melee more. So unfortunately, as it is right now, I'm still likely to go 41AP into Tempest rather than into DWS.
2. I'll ignore the comments about DWS being a filler tree. It needs a Capstone and a set of T5's that make it stand out as much as any other tree.
3. It's really hard to judge Ranged enhancements not knowing the changes to Manyshot in the pipeline. The sooner the better, please.
4. It's really hard to judge DWS in a vacuum, not knowing changes to Tempest and AA. Even just 'on paper here's what we'd like to do' would suffice for this exercise.
5. I really like the idea of DWS being the 'Survivalist' Ranger tree. Extra HP/PRR etc are welcome changes and I think with a bit of creativity it could be be carried further.

That all said, here's the further changes I would personally make to the DWS tree as suggested:

1. All Cores: Add some passive HP gain alongside the passive Positive Spell Power gain. It doesn't have to be Barbarian-worthy, but +10HP per core would feel about right and in line with the Survivalist theme.

2. Core - Mark of the Hunted: Just get rid of it. It's a poor, situational ability that is tied into a very limited charge. Replace it with:

The Striding Hunter: Ranger gains +10% Movement speed and is Immune to Tendon Slice and other movement impairment effects.

Alternatively, taking a leaf from the Assassin playbook at the level 18 Core enhancement, this could be a good place to put a multi-selector Crit Multi bonus in:

Targeted Strikes: +1 competence bonus to Critical Multiplier when using Melee Weapon
Targeted Shots: +1 competence bonus to Critical Multiplier when using Ranged Weapons

3. Core Capstone - Horizon Shot: It's still fairly weak since there's no apparent Crit Range / Crit Multi enhancements in this tree and we're yet to see the options in Tempest / AA. At the very least, upgrade it to: +2 Dex, +2 Con, +3D6 Sneak Attack Dice, +20% Melee Power / +20% Ranged Power / +20% Positive Spell Power and the standard 'Your always in Point Blank Shot / Sneak Attack range'

4. T1 Favoured Defense: Get rid of the AC Bonus and change it to a +2/4/6 PRR Bonus vs. Favoured enemies instead. AC is very difficult for a Ranger to get high enough to matter in Epic levels. Another 6 PRR is always welcome

5. T2 Faster Sneaking: This should mirror the Rogue enhancement and be 25/50/75%

6. T3 Favoured Hunter: No overly excited by this. I'd be more inclined to take it if it was double the amount of added damage.

7. T3 / T4 Dexterity / Wisdom: This should be changed to Dexterity / Constitution. Ties into the Survivalist theme

8. T4 Mercy Strike: It could still stand some buffs to. 15s cool down could stand a small reduction to 12s and the Melee Power scaling should be jumped up to around 250%. A Blitzing Ranger with 200MP could then activate this for a 2.5K Damage strike. That would tempt me to take it.

9. T4 Killer: No chance of a Quality of Life fix so that all the stacks don't instantly disappear? I think was possibly asked for on the rogue pass, and tbh I don't see a reason why this couldn't be done. At the moment, it doesn't feel worth taking for the stress of trying to keep it up.

10. T5 Headshot: Ok, this should be the ability that makes me go 'Wow' compared to the Tempest's Dance of Death ability, but frankly its poor. I've seen the comments about adding in Tactics bonuses or changing it to Dex/Int on the DC calculation, but I think a better approach would be:

Target makes a save vs Fort, or be Blinded for 9s
AND Target makes a save vs Reflex, or be Knocked Down for 6s
AND Target makes a save vs Will, or is Dazed and Confused for 12s

Having an ability that can target all three saving throws at once can make it useful by allowing it to work against the mob's lowest save, instead of the escalating DC nonsense we have elsewhere. It would give Rangers and interesting CC trick (my melee-orientated Ranger would seriously consider using this as an incentive to pull out the Bow more often).

11. T5 Strikes like Lightning: The name of this enhancement sounds like it should be in Tempest, not here.

There we go. Enjoy. Apologies for the War & Peace, but there's a lot to feedback on!