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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow View Post
    That was sarcasm.

    Because others think, it is so easily done nerfing other classes without having much of an impact.
    Hi,

    My main point stands. It's not fine for other classes to be boosted to the moon and for rangers to be cemented into a second class role.

    For what it's worth, I also think the current implementation of Holy Sword is a mess. As the OP pointed out, not only is it too powerful, it's causing problems with rebalancing other classes too.

    Hopefully the developers will grow some stones and do something about it one of these days. Taking months to admit that it's "overperforming" and then letting it fester is super lame.

    Thanks.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow View Post
    Holy sword only makes up about +30% of your total damage. 50-60% isn't even possible.

    Let me break this down for you. If you're using an ESOS, you do X damage per hit, non crit. If without special crit enhancements but assuming improved crit, you're doing 30%/3x. 30%/3x means that on average, you're doing X(1+60%), or 160% of your base damage.
    Now, if you have holy sword, you're now doing 40%/4x (or 50%/4x if you're using celestial champion). That's 120%. So from doing 160% of X you've gone to 220% of X. Holy sword makes that much of a difference. To get the same bang out of melee power, assuming your baseline is 100 MP, which you'll have by mid epics in LD running blitz, you'd need like 100-120 MP.

  3. #43
    Community Member DevilYouKnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,

    My main point stands. It's not fine for other classes to be boosted to the moon and for rangers to be cemented into a second class role.

    For what it's worth, I also think the current implementation of Holy Sword is a mess. As the OP pointed out, not only is it too powerful, it's causing problems with rebalancing other classes too.

    Hopefully the developers will grow some stones and do something about it one of these days. Taking months to admit that it's "overperforming" and then letting it fester is super lame.

    Thanks.
    My main point stands. There is nothing wrong with holy sword. If you don't like it, then just don't play it.

    But don't ruin the fun for the rest of us.

    Why is it always paladins that are considered the most overpowered class, when a barbarian has a better healing source while putting out much more dps ? What about warlocks using spells that cost no sp and are affected by spell crit, let alone no save spells. What about tree builds aka monks splashing warlock for aura while in tree form gathering enough spirits due to said aura to almost keep it up permanently while doing 40 k dmg per hit ?

    Why not mention any of this ? Because paladins are so overpowered, right ?

    This conversation is finished.
    Last edited by DevilYouKnow; 09-13-2015 at 08:28 PM.

  4. #44
    Community Member DevilYouKnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ValariusK View Post
    Let me break this down for you. If you're using an ESOS, you do X damage per hit, non crit. If without special crit enhancements but assuming improved crit, you're doing 30%/3x. 30%/3x means that on average, you're doing X(1+60%), or 160% of your base damage.
    Now, if you have holy sword, you're now doing 40%/4x (or 50%/4x if you're using celestial champion). That's 120%. So from doing 160% of X you've gone to 220% of X. Holy sword makes that much of a difference. To get the same bang out of melee power, assuming your baseline is 100 MP, which you'll have by mid epics in LD running blitz, you'd need like 100-120 MP.
    No. That is not how math works.

    You seem to underestimate the meaning behind a +30 % bonus to your overall damage across the board.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow View Post
    My main point stands. There is nothing wrong with holy sword. If you don't like it, then just don't play it.

    But don't ruin the fun for the rest of us.

    Why is it always paladins that are considered the most overpowered class, when a barbarian has a better healing source while putting out much more dps ? What about warlocks using spells that cost no sp and are affected by spell crit, let alone no save spells. What about tree builds aka monks splashing warlock for aura while in tree form gathering enough spirits due to said aura to almost keep it up permanently while doing 40 k dmg per hit ?

    Why not mention any of this ? Because paladins are so overpowered, right ?

    This conversation is finished.
    Hi,

    There's a whole bunch of stuff which is overpowered right now. Holy Sword is just one part of the problem. Mentioning other stuff which is as bad or worse doesn't change that.

    I've been asking for the developers to show some restraint since the class rebalancing exercise started, as have many other people. But they didn't, so now we have a bunch of munchkin classes, and apart from a small group of raids, the highest difficulty setting is now much too easy for a large proportion of the game's community.

    So given that they took us down this very very silly road, I don't think you can stop partway. Otherwise you will send up big power difference between classes. Now while you may think it's fine for some classes (eg, paladin, the one you apparently prefer) to be significantly stronger than others, I don't.

    As for 'don't ruin my fun', why is it that you think it's okay to ask other classes to remain weak (ie, ruining our fun) while yours is allowed to stay strong? Seems more than a little hypocritical to me.

    Thanks.

  6. #46
    Community Member Steve_Howe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    Unfortunately paladins unbalance other classes, to the point that even mechanics (a hella powerful pre) consider going 14/6.

    Holy Sword is just a mess. I would suggest to make it apply only to iconic paladin weapons: greatsword, bastard sword, longsword.
    This way paladins still have their lovely spell,
    Paladins of the Silver Flame will be ticked off.

    you know the Silver Flame's favored weapon is the bow, right? Sure, paladins don't HAVE to use their deity's favored weapon I guess but I would think the more devout ones would.

    If that's the case, are you willing to go as far as to say the Silver Flame wouldn't grant a spell similar to Holy Sword but calling it Holy Bow instead?

    Because if that's what you're saying, we may as well dump ANY role-playing angles or opportunities from the game altogether.
    Steve Howe was voted "Best Overall Guitarist" in Guitar Player magazine five years in a row (1977–1981) and in 1981 was the first rock guitar player inducted into the Guitar Player Hall of Fame.

  7. #47
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ValariusK View Post
    Holy sword is an effective increase to damage of 50-60% (60% if you start with an enhanced crit weapon like SOS, Ballizarde, Deathnips or the like). This is the equivalent of around 100-120 Melee power, more if you typically run over 100 MP, which most LD builds will. Whether that's 'FINE' or not depends on where you think DPS levels OUGHT to be. Add that to the zeal spell at level 15 and you're talking another 10%, and 10% doublestrike similarly is worth a LOT more than 10 melee power.
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow View Post
    Holy sword only makes up about +30% of your total damage. 50-60% isn't even possible.
    He a said it was a 50-60% increase to damage he is correct. Not that it was 50-60% of your total DPS there is a difference.

    Base Khopesh crits on 17-20/x3 Holy Sword Khopesh 15-20/x4
    Roles of 15-16 are 10% of your attacks doing an additional 300% damage 0.1(300%) = 30% increase
    Roles of 17-20 are 20% of your attacks doing an additional 100% damage 0.2(100%) = 20% increase
    Total 30+20 = 50% damage increase
    Last edited by Grailhawk; 09-14-2015 at 11:19 AM.

  8. #48
    Community Member Lorianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow View Post

    Keep in mind that holy sword was already nerfed. It is fine the way it is.
    I kept in mind that the Executive Producer wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    Holy Sword will be changing at some point.
    (That was after the first adjustment)

    If I remember it right it was because the bonus to crital threat range didn't work additive like suposed but multiplicative. Enjoy it while it lasts but don't get your hopes high it that it will be around for ever. I guess it was never intended that a class autogrand in form of a spell was the best melee enhancement in the game. My paladin doesn't even need that broken mechanic, works still fine when I don't cast holy sword.
    Last edited by Lorianus; 09-15-2015 at 02:38 AM.
    “Willy Loman: I don't want change, I want Swiss cheese!”

  9. #49
    Community Member adrian69's Avatar
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    Default Nightmare/Hell Mode Whichever

    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,

    There's a whole bunch of stuff which is overpowered right now. Holy Sword is just one part of the problem. Mentioning other stuff which is as bad or worse doesn't change that.

    I've been asking for the developers to show some restraint since the class rebalancing exercise started, as have many other people. But they didn't, so now we have a bunch of munchkin classes, and apart from a small group of raids, the highest difficulty setting is now much too easy for a large proportion of the game's community.

    So given that they took us down this very very silly road, I don't think you can stop partway. Otherwise you will send up big power difference between classes. Now while you may think it's fine for some classes (eg, paladin, the one you apparently prefer) to be significantly stronger than others, I don't.

    As for 'don't ruin my fun', why is it that you think it's okay to ask other classes to remain weak (ie, ruining our fun) while yours is allowed to stay strong? Seems more than a little hypocritical to me.

    Thanks.
    Everyone realize all classes are getting OP scales because of the implementation of nightmare or hell mode difficulty. Don't know when it's coming, but don't ask for nerfs please. I could understand a good class balance if we were a PvP based game, or had a bigger/better PvP pool, but this isn't. It' s for fun, shivs and giggles, and waiting your classes turn to shine for day.

  10. #50
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    I would like to see Holy Sword scale in power exponentially with Paladin levels. That would fix this whole mess.
    Mellkor Wizard, Culpepper Cleric, Coyle Warlock, Anarion Mechanic Archer, Ungoliant, Assassin, Tulkas Astaldo Vanguard Pally,
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