Vangaurd - Stunning Shield - possible bug

[Spoonwelder]

I am just noticing that I am stunning stuff that would normally be unstunnable (ie. golems, skeletons etc...) with Stunning Shield. Is this a known 'benefit' of Stunning Shield or umm what's that other word we don't like...oh yeah 'bug'.

[Ralmeth]

I am just noticing that I am stunning stuff that would normally be unstunnable (ie. golems, skeletons etc...) with Stunning Shield. Is this a known 'benefit' of Stunning Shield or umm what's that other word we don't like...oh yeah 'bug'.

Stunning Shield has always worked like that, though whether it's WAI I'm not sure. I never considered it unbalanced because Stunning Shield has a 30 second cooldown if you put all 3 APs into it.

[Spoonwelder]

I thought that was due to the Level bonus added to the stun DC.

[HastyPudding]

Stunning Shield has always worked like that, though whether it's WAI I'm not sure. I never considered it unbalanced because Stunning Shield has a 30 second cooldown if you put all 3 APs into it.

^this^

I'm pretty sure it's not WAI, but I think it fits due to its rather lengthy cooldown and hit-or-miss mechanics. If the devs 'fix' this, then by all rights they should fix adrenaline/fury to not work with ranged weapons, AA's paralyzing arrows to not work on mobs that normally can't be paralyzed, and other such glaring 'not WAI' things wrong with this game that have turned into 'features', or swept under the rug and modified to suit its current form.


All-in-all, I think vanguard is great where it is, now; borderline overpowered, but can't stand up to the top DPS in the game, but still has excellent suitability meshed with DPS. It is the median between real tanks and pure damage builds.

[Malusny]

^this^

I'm pretty sure it's not WAI, but I think it fits due to its rather lengthy cooldown and hit-or-miss mechanics. If the devs 'fix' this, then by all rights they should fix adrenaline/fury to not work with ranged weapons, AA's paralyzing arrows to not work on mobs that normally can't be paralyzed, and other such glaring 'not WAI' things wrong with this game that have turned into 'features', or swept under the rug and modified to suit its current form.


All-in-all, I think vanguard is great where it is, now; borderline overpowered, but can't stand up to the top DPS in the game, but still has excellent suitability meshed with DPS. It is the median between real tanks and pure damage builds.

I also think that the stunning shield working on some undead/mechanical/magical creatures should not be touched. The cooldown is very long and I think this compensates, I honestly think it is good the way it is. Please don't try to nerf paladins back to the stone age.

[IronClan]

I thought this was going to be a thread complaining that Stunning shield doesn't work right, or that it doesn't work against anything in the new raid, even with a 90 DC. When Normally Oranges are stun-able, and the Warchanter freeze (with 6 second cool down) and various guards like Earthgrab still work.

IMO they really need to not put content out there that TOTALLY OBVIATES 100% OF OUR INVESTMENT IN CHARACTER ABILITIES... Especially ones that have such a high opportunity cost (very long cool down 3ap cost)

As far as Stunning Shield sometimes working on stuff that may or may not be wai I thought this was a natural balance for the fact that the cooldown is obnoxious and the mechanics of the attack cause you to frequently miss (I.e. often the cooldown is effectively doubled)

1. it's about a 50/50 chance to land the attack if you or the mob move at all and then you have to wait for a glacial cooldown this is to say; NO to hit detection occurs and no save or "miss" appears.
2. for some reason a shield attack has a near 100% (very high) miss chance (as in "Miss" appears over the mob not the 50/50 chance to not land at all mentioned in 1.) when you're coming off of moving or just moved to a new mob and it's your first action.

Between the two the attack misses all the time.

If a Dev reads this and decides to nerf it working on some unusual Mobs, please also take a moment to fix 1. and 2. and reduce the AP cost and lower the cooldown to something reasonable for a ability that ALREADY works on less things than the 6 second cooldown Frozen Fury.

[bartharok]

I thought this was going to be a thread complaining that Stunning shield doesn't work right, or that it doesn't work against anything in the new raid, even with a 90 DC. When Normally Oranges are stun-able, and the Warchanter freeze (with 6 second cool down) and various guards like Earthgrab still work.

IMO they really need to not put content out there that TOTALLY OBVIATES 100% OF OUR INVESTMENT IN CHARACTER ABILITIES... Especially ones that have such a high opportunity cost (very long cool down 3ap cost)

As far as Stunning Shield sometimes working on stuff that may or may not be wai I thought this was a natural balance for the fact that the cooldown is obnoxious and the mechanics of the attack cause you to frequently miss (I.e. often the cooldown is effectively doubled)

1. it's about a 50/50 chance to land the attack if you or the mob move at all and then you have to wait for a glacial cooldown this is to say; NO to hit detection occurs and no save or "miss" appears.
2. for some reason a shield attack has a near 100% (very high) miss chance (as in "Miss" appears over the mob not the 50/50 chance to not land at all mentioned in 1.) when you're coming off of moving or just moved to a new mob and it's your first action.

Between the two the attack misses all the time.

If a Dev reads this and decides to nerf it working on some unusual Mobs, please also take a moment to fix 1. and 2. and reduce the AP cost and lower the cooldown to something reasonable for a ability that ALREADY works on less things than the 6 second cooldown Frozen Fury.

I must say that i have never noticed either 1 OR 2. Usually when i use it, the mob gets stunned, and thats that.

[Sisma]

Well, I must say that, even if Stunning Shield could be expensive for someone, happens that I like the stun proc from Shield Champion very much. Prolly because the stun procs for EVERY shield bash I make, active or passive. Yes, even in a Shield Charge. So, if I have to spend that 41 points in Vanguard, 3 points in Stunning Shield (adding another chance of sunning) are worth the investment.
I did notice that even a DC in higher 90s doesn't stun in EE highest level raids (at least, almost nothing happens), but still... It's a 32 level Raid, I'm a poor level 28 character, need to grow up a little more...

[Eth]

Same with anvil of thunder. You can stun stuff like undead and living constructs.
Haven't seen anything where it doesn't work on.

Also earsmash.
I'm particularly interested why it's possible to earsmash an ooze.

[Sisma]

I'm particularly interested why it's possible to earsmash an ooze.

You only have to search better... Because Oozes have ears, just not in the place where they are supposed to be. Just like nipples.

[Eth]

You only have to search better... Because Oozes have ears, just not in the place where they are supposed to be. Just like nipples.

So oozes are mammals then? Do I have to look under the loincloth?


I just image-searched google for "oozes with nipples" out of curiosity what nonsense would come up. I have regrets.

[PermaBanned]

I just image-searched google for "oozes with nipples" out of curiosity what nonsense would come up. I have regrets.

**** you!

...so glad I didn't hit the "images" button...

[IronClan]

I must say that i have never noticed either 1 OR 2. Usually when i use it, the mob gets stunned, and thats that.

Interesting, so you've never hit it right when a mob decides to move and see nothing happen? and you don't get "miss" when you move to a new mob and open with it? I experience both consistently.

[bartharok]

Interesting, so you've never hit it right when a mob decides to move and see nothing happen? and you don't get "miss" when you move to a new mob and open with it? I experience both consistently.

I make sure it hits by grabbing agro first by smacking the mob afew times.

[IronClan]

I make sure it hits by grabbing agro first by smacking the mob afew times.

Okay that's a valid tactic to reduce the problem.

IMO it's still a problem. Unless you never run with repeater users and warlocks mobs are going to switch aggro. And then there are archers, are you telling me you don't shield stun Archers so you wont waste the attack? Or do you make sure they move first, follow them and then swing a few times and then Shield stun?

To be more clear I am not talking about a mob that has successfully gotten out of my reach, I am talking about a mob that is close enough that my weapon is still hitting both before and after the shield stun attempt, but he's decided to move and this fact alone seems to cause the shield stun to not register in any way... no miss message nothing, just a cool down, this is VERY similar to using a potion while doing stuff and getting the animation and the cooldown but not the potion effect, or trying to cast a spell as a warlock while e-blasting. Sometimes nothing happens besides the cooldown.

I am also talking about running up to a mob and opening with a shield stun and getting a miss msg nearly 100% of the time... like maybe there's a bug and the movement penalty to hit is being multiplied for a shield perhaps? You are dealing with this by swinging a few times, I also deal with it by swinging a few times, however I feel like this is a bug and negatively impacts the utility of Shield stunning, because it means the cooldown is effectively much longer than it's supposed to be.

If they don't want to fix the bugs they could just cut the cooldown to 12 or 15 seconds,Frozen Fury's cooldown is 6 seconds and it works on just about EVERYTHING in the game including DoJ orangenamed... Not sure why Stunning shield needed to be five times longer?

[Spoonwelder]

Okay that's a valid tactic to reduce the problem.

IMO it's still a problem. Unless you never run with repeater users and warlocks mobs are going to switch aggro. And then there are archers, are you telling me you don't shield stun Archers so you wont waste the attack? Or do you make sure they move first, follow them and then swing a few times and then Shield stun?

To be more clear I am not talking about a mob that has successfully gotten out of my reach, I am talking about a mob that is close enough that my weapon is still hitting both before and after the shield stun attempt, but he's decided to move and this fact alone seems to cause the shield stun to not register in any way... no miss message nothing, just a cool down, this is VERY similar to using a potion while doing stuff and getting the animation and the cooldown but not the potion effect, or trying to cast a spell as a warlock while e-blasting. Sometimes nothing happens besides the cooldown.

I am also talking about running up to a mob and opening with a shield stun and getting a miss msg nearly 100% of the time... like maybe there's a bug and the movement penalty to hit is being multiplied for a shield perhaps? You are dealing with this by swinging a few times, I also deal with it by swinging a few times, however I feel like this is a bug and negatively impacts the utility of Shield stunning, because it means the cooldown is effectively much longer than it's supposed to be.

If they don't want to fix the bugs they could just cut the cooldown to 12 or 15 seconds,Frozen Fury's cooldown is 6 seconds and it works on just about EVERYTHING in the game including DoJ orangenamed... Not sure why Stunning shield needed to be five times longer?

I get this as well. I haven't played my vanguard up to cap again since the new content so can't speak to it not working there but yes I get the mobs right in front of me hit stun and they move marginally away from me and no stun. This is trash mobs too not even orange named where you might expect them to save occassionally.

It is slightly irritating but I think the vanguard is pretty powerful anyway so I just try not to get worked up over it.

[Ralmeth]

I thought this was going to be a thread complaining that Stunning shield doesn't work right, or that it doesn't work against anything in the new raid, even with a 90 DC. When Normally Oranges are stun-able, and the Warchanter freeze (with 6 second cool down) and various guards like Earthgrab still work.

IMO they really need to not put content out there that TOTALLY OBVIATES 100% OF OUR INVESTMENT IN CHARACTER ABILITIES... Especially ones that have such a high opportunity cost (very long cool down 3ap cost)

As far as Stunning Shield sometimes working on stuff that may or may not be wai I thought this was a natural balance for the fact that the cooldown is obnoxious and the mechanics of the attack cause you to frequently miss (I.e. often the cooldown is effectively doubled)

1. it's about a 50/50 chance to land the attack if you or the mob move at all and then you have to wait for a glacial cooldown this is to say; NO to hit detection occurs and no save or "miss" appears.
2. for some reason a shield attack has a near 100% (very high) miss chance (as in "Miss" appears over the mob not the 50/50 chance to not land at all mentioned in 1.) when you're coming off of moving or just moved to a new mob and it's your first action.

Between the two the attack misses all the time.

If a Dev reads this and decides to nerf it working on some unusual Mobs, please also take a moment to fix 1. and 2. and reduce the AP cost and lower the cooldown to something reasonable for a ability that ALREADY works on less things than the 6 second cooldown Frozen Fury.

I've also had an issue with Stunning Shield missing, and I think there is a bug going on. I haven't fully tested it to bug report it, but I think the miss occurs when you or your opponent are moving, or recently moved. Generally speaking the best work around I found is to make sure both you and your opponent are stationary for a second or two before using stunning shield.

[Hoglum]

Yeah, the difference between running up to a monster and stunning them with stunning blow vs shield is night and day. The mechanics of stunning shield are off somehow.

BTW, if a dev is reading this, can we get a "ding" sound when stunning with the shield?

[Spoonwelder]

Yeah, the difference between running up to a monster and stunning them with stunning blow vs shield is night and day. The mechanics of stunning shield are off somehow.

BTW, if a dev is reading this, can we get a "ding" sound when stunning with the shield?

Or maybe more of a 'clonk'.

[Enoach]

When this ability first came out and I spec'd over to it I noticed the ability to stun a number of things that my other character built for stunning blow could not stun (and not because of the DC)

While I'm not a 100% sure this is WAI, I can see the logic in it other then the cooldown...

Hitting someone with a shield full force can be disorienting, I remember playing swords with my brother, this may age me a bit but... we used the steel Lids off the trash cans as shields, well during one of these sessions of trading blows my brother decides to whack me with "his shield". I took that blow square in the face, saw stars and was not very steady on my feet. He would also hit me with "his sword" a flat piece of wood and while that would hurt when he whacked me in the head, it never was the same as being hit by a wall of steel.

So the point of my story, is just maybe stunning shield effect is simply more than a stun, I believe it is accounting for the unsteadiness one would feel after getting hit by a wall.

P.S. I really do hope it is WAI