There's a difference between EN and EE...

[mobrien316]

In my opinion, there is a very large difference between EN and EE. On a scale of 1-10, EN is about a 1 or a 2, and EE is about an 11.

People who join EN groups, or who post EN groups, might very well be making a sound decision based on their character's abilities. I have a character that can solo (some) EE's, but not all my characters can do so. Some of my characters just don't have great DPS, and they do fine in EN, but they are either barely contributing in EE or they are riding around in someone's backpack as a soulstone in EE. With those characters, EE simply isn't any fun for me, because it mostly consists of "I have to hit each mob five thousand times for it to die, but if it hits me two or three times I'm dead. What fun!"

If I post an LFM for EN, or for EH, I'm not going to change it EE once the last guy joins and complains, "I want to do EE, I have a streak, I need it on EE for saga, I want the EE version of the shiny in this quest, I want the extra XP, etc..." I just think keeping the posted difficulty is the courteous thing to do for the other people in the group. If they joined my LFM because it was posted for EN and they know they can actually play DDO on EN (as opposed to either spending the quest as a soulstone or contributing infinitesimal amounts of damage through every fight), I don't think it's fair to switch it to EE and leave them up a creek.

However, this is something I see other people doing often. Not all the time, but often for sure.

Would it be considered acceptable if someone joined an EE group and then started complaining that EE is too hard and they would really prefer EN? I doubt anyone would think so. Why is it acceptable with so many people to join EN or EH groups and instantly start complaining that the posted difficulty is too easy and they would rather do EE?

[Enoach]

Changing the difficulty of a posted LFM should be up to the Party Leader, with the understanding that others that joined may leave because that is not what they intended.

There are actually two parts that need to be clear...

1. LFM should state the difficulty
2. People that join should respect the difficulty the LFM is set to

If you need that quest on a different difficulty then what is posted you are better off putting up your own LFM for that difficulty then to join someone else and try to get them to change the difficulty.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Isn't it simple math?

EE - EN = EH? :P

[Angelic-council]

In my opinion, there is a very large difference between EN and EE. On a scale of 1-10, EN is about a 1 or a 2, and EE is about an 11.

People who join EN groups, or who post EN groups, might very well be making a sound decision based on their character's abilities. I have a character that can solo (some) EE's, but not all my characters can do so. Some of my characters just don't have great DPS, and they do fine in EN, but they are either barely contributing in EE or they are riding around in someone's backpack as a soulstone in EE. With those characters, EE simply isn't any fun for me, because it mostly consists of "I have to hit each mob five thousand times for it to die, but if it hits me two or three times I'm dead. What fun!"

If I post an LFM for EN, or for EH, I'm not going to change it EE once the last guy joins and complains, "I want to do EE, I have a streak, I need it on EE for saga, I want the EE version of the shiny in this quest, I want the extra XP, etc..." I just think keeping the posted difficulty is the courteous thing to do for the other people in the group. If they joined my LFM because it was posted for EN and they know they can actually play DDO on EN (as opposed to either spending the quest as a soulstone or contributing infinitesimal amounts of damage through every fight), I don't think it's fair to switch it to EE and leave them up a creek.

However, this is something I see other people doing often. Not all the time, but often for sure.

Would it be considered acceptable if someone joined an EE group and then started complaining that EE is too hard and they would really prefer EN? I doubt anyone would think so. Why is it acceptable with so many people to join EN or EH groups and instantly start complaining that the posted difficulty is too easy and they would rather do EE?

I think it's acceptable to "suggest", like if you joined EH group then you could say "I think we can handle EE, wanna try it guys?". But you shouldn't complain about it. To me, I believe that people can judge for themselves. If your character has bad dps, others will spot that. If you have good dps, the same.

Anyways, communication is the key. If you joined EE and you can't handle, either leave the party or try your best to survive (but you should know before joining). If you joined EN and believe that you can handle, don't leave right away, but suggest and talk to people, after that, it's your choice whatever you want to do. Ultimately, it's party leader's choice. And he/she should respect other players opinion. But again, it's an online game... just a game.

[Qhualor]

I think it's acceptable to "suggest", like if you joined EH group then you could say "I think we can handle EE, wanna try it guys?". But you shouldn't complain about it. To me, I believe that people can judge for themselves. If your character has bad dps, others will spot that. If you have good dps, the same.

I love hearing in a pug group "wanna try EE? the quest isn't that hard" or "lets do EE. we can do it." how does a player in a group of strangers know that the whole group can do it?

[Algreg]

because, based on knowledge of their own ability, people tell you your team can handle EE. So yes, I think that is acceptable. Now, of cause sometimes you get some newbies who think EE is all easy because they got used of being dragged through by jumping into EE pugs, but this another thing and usually the warning signs are hard to miss.

[Algreg]

I love hearing in a pug group "wanna try EE? the quest isn't that hard" or "lets do EE. we can do it." how does a player in a group of strangers know that the whole group can do it?

because he has confidence in his own abilities to make a difference?

[Angelic-council]

I love hearing in a pug group "wanna try EE? the quest isn't that hard" or "lets do EE. we can do it." how does a player in a group of strangers know that the whole group can do it?

Well, he said it so, he can probably handle it. I would say something similar to that, then just zerg and complete ee runs.

[Qhualor]

because he has confidence in his own abilities to make a difference?

we all wish we could be heroes.

[Augon]

What is worse is when that guy joins the EN pug and then jumps into the quest on EE and says "In on Elite - now you can't change it! lol"

Literally happened to me, although the exact wording may have been different. I dropped group.

I am probably as uptight as anyone about pugs - so many of the behaviors I see in pugs irritate me, but the scenarios y'all presented about someone joining and being polite about suggesting we try it wouldn't bother me at all. Yeah, he really has no way of knowing if what he is saying is true, but if the group as a whole is cool with trying, I'd say go for it. If we couldn't handle it, in most quests it would become obvious pretty quickly and we can just release, repair and start over no worse for the wear. Done that plenty of times with my guild.

[Qhualor]

Well, he said it so, he can probably handle it. I would say something similar to that, then just zerg and complete ee runs.

im glad he thinks he can, but can the rest of the group he doesn't know?

the zergers are why I solo now.

[blerkington]

I love hearing in a pug group "wanna try EE? the quest isn't that hard" or "lets do EE. we can do it." how does a player in a group of strangers know that the whole group can do it?

because he has confidence in his own abilities to make a difference?

Hi,

With the game as it is now, one strong player is enough to carry a group in pretty much all non-raid content.

This person doesn't even have to be one of those villainous elitist zergers some of the community hates so much, just someone who knows how to get it done.

The other thing is you get to know people on the PUG circuit. I see the same people, again and again, and I have a sense of their capabilities even if I know hardly anything else about them.

That knowledge is never perfect but it's usually enough to tell what sort of ride you'll be in for if you try EE. It's quite rare to go in completely cold. I can't remember the last time I did in a full or nearly full group.

Thanks.

[Braegan]

we all wish we could be heroes.

Meh, I thought about it.

But, then I realized how much work it was going to be.

[Lonnbeimnech]

... even if the party can easily handle EE, you might have put the lfm up for eh or en because you already ran them on EE before your last etr, and now want the first time completion of eh/en.

Really, if the lfm says eh and someone wants to do EE that bad that they start complaining, they should politely drop group and put up their own lfm.

[Braegan]

... even if the party can easily handle EE, you might have put the lfm up for eh or en because you already ran them on EE before your last etr, and now want the first time completion of eh/en.

Really, if the lfm says eh and someone wants to do EE that bad that they start complaining, they should politely drop group and put up their own lfm.

Joking aside I agree with you.

There is nothing wrong with politely asking about shifting the difficulty. But it you join a group for a posted difficulty beyond politely asking you have no room to complain and can either deal with it or move on, imo.

[Enderoc]

I think Epic Hard is probably better for groups who are not all elite, Epic Normal is totally soloist. Unless you absolutely need extra players for a quest or you are grinding for materials or gear Epic Normal is basically for lone players. Epic Hard still gives you some BB, it is faster to run than Epic Elite, and repair bills are usually not as high. If a group of people were running Epic Hard to flag, get experience, or grinding, and planned on doing a ton of content on Epic Hard... I think I would join that group first while shooting for EE whenever an LFM is open for those I missed on EE.

Trust me, Epic Hard is easy to Handle by most parties... and depending they tend to be easy to solo too. If you are looking to cap fast, its better to run those. Favor and rewards should come second.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

One of the reasons I seldom put up LFMs, is the large number of "that guy"s who join and then start telling me various things I should do.....
(although my LFMs, almost always are for the highest difficulty. ) (and been that way since way before streaking) (in DDO I mean. )

Just more relaxing to me to join someone else's and let them deal with trying to make everyone happy...

[bartharok]

One of the reasons I seldom put up LFMs, is the large number of "that guy"s who join and then start telling me various things I should do.....
(although my LFMs, almost always are for the highest difficulty. ) (and been that way since way before streaking) (in DDO I mean. )

Just more relaxing to me to join someone else's and let them deal with trying to make everyone happy...

Naked runs?

[redoubt]

OP: totally unacceptable to complain about running on the published difficulty. They are just being annoying. You have a valid point and complaint.

I think it's acceptable to "suggest", like if you joined EH group then you could say "I think we can handle EE, wanna try it guys?". But you shouldn't complain about it. To me, I believe that people can judge for themselves. If your character has bad dps, others will spot that. If you have good dps, the same.

Anyways, communication is the key. If you joined EE and you can't handle, either leave the party or try your best to survive (but you should know before joining). If you joined EN and believe that you can handle, don't leave right away, but suggest and talk to people, after that, it's your choice whatever you want to do. Ultimately, it's party leader's choice. And he/she should respect other players opinion. But again, it's an online game... just a game.

I love hearing in a pug group "wanna try EE? the quest isn't that hard" or "lets do EE. we can do it." how does a player in a group of strangers know that the whole group can do it?

I think suggesting is fine. Then shut up if the group decides not to change it.

I agree that with actual strangers the first quest is not where you make that suggestion. I've seen two places where it makes sense:

1. I post an LFM for EH. I plan to solo or duo if no one joins. Several "pug regulars" join and I throw out the question of if they want to run EE because I've run with them several times before.

2. We run a quest or three and are doing very well. The group is clicking and have an easy time of EH. This would be a decent time to suggest doing EE. But again, if someone doesn't want to bump the difficulty, respect that desire.

[morkahn82]

In my opinion, there is a very large difference between EN and EE. On a scale of 1-10, EN is about a 1 or a 2, and EE is about an 11.

People who join EN groups, or who post EN groups, might very well be making a sound decision based on their character's abilities. I have a character that can solo (some) EE's, but not all my characters can do so. Some of my characters just don't have great DPS, and they do fine in EN, but they are either barely contributing in EE or they are riding around in someone's backpack as a soulstone in EE. With those characters, EE simply isn't any fun for me, because it mostly consists of "I have to hit each mob five thousand times for it to die, but if it hits me two or three times I'm dead. What fun!"

If I post an LFM for EN, or for EH, I'm not going to change it EE once the last guy joins and complains, "I want to do EE, I have a streak, I need it on EE for saga, I want the EE version of the shiny in this quest, I want the extra XP, etc..." I just think keeping the posted difficulty is the courteous thing to do for the other people in the group. If they joined my LFM because it was posted for EN and they know they can actually play DDO on EN (as opposed to either spending the quest as a soulstone or contributing infinitesimal amounts of damage through every fight), I don't think it's fair to switch it to EE and leave them up a creek.

However, this is something I see other people doing often. Not all the time, but often for sure.

Would it be considered acceptable if someone joined an EE group and then started complaining that EE is too hard and they would really prefer EN? I doubt anyone would think so. Why is it acceptable with so many people to join EN or EH groups and instantly start complaining that the posted difficulty is too easy and they would rather do EE?

Well said. If you dislike the lfm's difficulty just make your own group.