Put your $ where your mouth is!

[EnziteBob]

This isn't DnD though...but another mmorpg based on dnd rules and since it's MMO it should have PvP imo

MMO's with PvP have to start from day one with PvP in mind. You just can't slap PvP into a PvE game without breaking PvE. In most cases you will have a lackluster PvP experience.

[Lerincho]

MMO's with PvP have to start from day one with PvP in mind. You just can't slap PvP into a PvE game without breaking PvE. In most cases you will have a lackluster PvP experience.

Seen first hand in DDO April 2006.

[spectroum]

Well yeah the current PvP system is a sloppy project and is in the game just so it exists.

Of course it's hard to introduce a good PvP system in a game that is pure PvE but it can happen for sure.


The reason i want PvP is because lately, and by lately i mean the last few years, when you cap your character there is literally nothing to do. Sure you will run some epic and couple raids here and there, mostly for some items, help couple friends, probably even do few favor runs too but mainly you get bored because there is nothing you actually want or is worth running to do. Few years ago the game was harder and you had to find good groups to run raids and epics in order to optimize your character, update after update and bug after bug the game got a lot easier and people actually got their desired gear easily enough (easier than it should be). The introduction of astral shards helped here a lot too since you can buy most of the stuff you can't get yourself anyway.

What i'm trying to say here is that DDO used to be a hard game that also made it a lot interesting and exciting to play, nowdays it's not. Adding a good PvP system will bring back the interest and hunger to optimize your character and try your skills against others.

The PvP system i have in mind is like this:
a) An expansion will introduce the whole PvP system including PvP areas and quest/raid(s) for items. The game as we know won't get affected this way.
a) Only capped characters can enter the PvP areas wearing only PvP equipment. That means you can't run quests wearing PvP items and can't do PvP wearing PvE items.
b) The quests/raid(s) included will have a minimum level required of 28 (cap) which drop only PvP items. This way you need to optimize your character with PvE items in order to get PvP items.
c) Solo/Guild rankings will occur that will reset monthly and at the end of the month prizes (AS,epic items,mats,TPs,etc) will be distributed to the top10 players/guilds with the highest PvP points. Now you have an extra motive to do PvP.


From my point of view doing something like this won't affect the game as it is now at all. You just get an option to do PvP if you want, if not you can just stay PvE as you are now. This is a good way to make cap interesting again and offer a hell of a lot alternatives than just to grind the same old quests over and over. Also Turbine can make money out of this and i strongly think that the playerbase will increase again.

Just a thought...

[Lerincho]

The reason i want PvP is because lately, and by lately i mean the last few years, when you cap your character there is literally nothing to do. Sure you will run some epic and couple raids here and there, mostly for some items, help couple friends, probably even do few favor runs too but mainly you get bored because there is nothing you actually want or is worth running to do. Few years ago the game was harder and you had to find good groups to run raids and epics in order to optimize your character, update after update and bug after bug the game got a lot easier and people actually got their desired gear easily enough (easier than it should be). The introduction of astral shards helped here a lot too since you can buy most of the stuff you can't get yourself anyway.

/Not signed

Focus on more quests, new classes and new races. PvP if it would not be extensive time should be removed completely.

[Uska]

Well yeah the current PvP system is a sloppy project and is in the game just so it exists.

Of course it's hard to introduce a good PvP system in a game that is pure PvE but it can happen for sure.


The reason i want PvP is because lately, and by lately i mean the last few years, when you cap your character there is literally nothing to do. Sure you will run some epic and couple raids here and there, mostly for some items, help couple friends, probably even do few favor runs too but mainly you get bored because there is nothing you actually want or is worth running to do. Few years ago the game was harder and you had to find good groups to run raids and epics in order to optimize your character, update after update and bug after bug the game got a lot easier and people actually got their desired gear easily enough (easier than it should be). The introduction of astral shards helped here a lot too since you can buy most of the stuff you can't get yourself anyway.

What i'm trying to say here is that DDO used to be a hard game that also made it a lot interesting and exciting to play, nowdays it's not. Adding a good PvP system will bring back the interest and hunger to optimize your character and try your skills against others.

The PvP system i have in mind is like this:
a) An expansion will introduce the whole PvP system including PvP areas and quest/raid(s) for items. The game as we know won't get affected this way.
a) Only capped characters can enter the PvP areas wearing only PvP equipment. That means you can't run quests wearing PvP items and can't do PvP wearing PvE items.
b) The quests/raid(s) included will have a minimum level required of 28 (cap) which drop only PvP items. This way you need to optimize your character with PvE items in order to get PvP items.
c) Solo/Guild rankings will occur that will reset monthly and at the end of the month prizes (AS,epic items,mats,TPs,etc) will be distributed to the top10 players/guilds with the highest PvP points. Now you have an extra motive to do PvP.


From my point of view doing something like this won't affect the game as it is now at all. You just get an option to do PvP if you want, if not you can just stay PvE as you are now. This is a good way to make cap interesting again and offer a hell of a lot alternatives than just to grind the same old quests over and over. Also Turbine can make money out of this and i strongly think that the playerbase will increase again.

Just a thought...

NO pvp and yes it will affect even those that dont want it as it would take a lot of dev time and if they did any balancing it is sre to bug and affect PVE so no.

and if they didnt balance it there would be only a few builds that would be feasible to play for pvp its just the way ddo and d&d are

a PvP game needs to be designed with it in mind from the start

[Xionanx]

I would totally toss another $60 at Turbine under the following circumstances:

1. If Turbine announced they were making a SEQUEL to DDO.
2. If Turbine contacted and hired ALL of the people who worked on Dragons Dogma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Dogma (if you haven't played Dragons Dogma, as a fan of D&D you are really missing out, IMO one of the best RPG's to come out in the past 6 years) ***FULLY AWARE ITS NOT A D&D GAME
3. If Turbine contacted and hired MOST of the people who worked on Demon/Dark Souls. (prime examples of "Dungeon Crawling" as an act of exploration, NOT as an act of high speed hack and slash).
4. If Turbine set out to make a MMO that reflects the spirit of AD&D (yes ADVANCED DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS), with a combination of combat mechanics from Dragons Dogma and Demon/Dark Souls, set in a NEW.. yes NEW setting.. by NEW, I mean.. NOT Forgotten Realms, NOT Eberron, NOT Dark Sun, NOT Ravenloft, NOT Spelljammer, NOT Planescape, NOT (Insert Setting)..

IMO, 3rd edition, 4th Edition, and even 5th edition are NOT suited for an "Action" MMO. The edition of D&D that would best suited is the OLD D&D, you know, when weapons had attack speeds, spells had cast times, etc.. Things that would translate well into an "Action" combat system. The more modern turn based combat systems are more suited for.. you guessed it, turn based combat. This is why more recent D&D RPG's that tried to implement real time combat have been kind of lackluster compared to everyone's old favorite.

"Questing" needs to be something tailored to the PARTY. You should be able to form a party, with ANY character at ANY level.. you know, like you could in tabletop, and then.. the PC DUNGEON MASTER should CUSTOM TAILOR THE ENCOUNTERS for an average success rate. This isn't as hard to do as it sounds, I could write a whole description of the mechanics needed to do this, but its VERY doable. Anyway, XP is shared in a party regardless of level.. if you have played the new 1st person shooters that use a "level" system, you have likely already experienced just such a system.. where a players "ELO" is matched to players of similar level, and.. in the cases where a high ELO player groups with a low ELO player, their skills are averaged and matched against players similar to the average ELO. Using this system allows for quests to be "Challenging" without arbitrarily assigning "levels" to quests, because the enemies will always be tailored to the group who enters.

"Dungeons" need to be a combination of "Random" + "Hand Crafted". Again, not that hard to do, Blizzard has been doing this for years as the most notable example. But if the "Quest Goal" is hand crafted with great care, and then the "Dungeon Proper" is randomized you create a situation for near endless questing, and with the previously mentioned PC DM custom tailoring the fights, you will never be in a situation of "not being challenged".

Basically, I want a D&D themed MMO with Diablo Randomization with MOBA AI VS PARTY enemy scaling and epic fights like in the Dogma/Souls series..

I personally think if some developer managed to make the above, they would have a cash cow... major cash cow.

OH.. wait.. https://www.google.com/search?q=drag...od04sD_Q&dpr=1

Looks like Capcom already did.. So yeah, if this game gets a US release, i fully expect I will never play DDO again.

[Lerincho]

I would totally toss another $60 at Turbine under the following circumstances:
<snip>
OH.. wait.. https://www.google.com/search?q=drag...od04sD_Q&dpr=1

Looks like Capcom already did.. So yeah, if this game gets a US release, i fully expect I will never play DDO again.

All this for only $60, yeah.... sure. If the game is as bad as you are implying, you would not be here. Remember when Age of Conan was going to be the death of DDO?

[Xionanx]

All this for only $60, yeah.... sure. If the game is as bad as you are implying, you would not be here. Remember when Age of Conan was going to be the death of DDO?

TBH I am mostly here trolling the forums now. I haven't actually PLAYED DDO for about 3 weeks.. I am still on the forums reading dev posts waiting for some kind of hint they are going to start making the game something I can be excited about again.

I have been playing DDO off and on for years (2006 join date), I tend to play for a month or two, consume all the "new" content and then leave for 9 months or more. Every time I come back, I am appalled by how much further from the origins the game gets. To be frank, i dont know why they even TRY to pretend to be D&D anymore. Turbine should just ditch the remaining 3rd edition mechanics and go all out on implementing their own systems, as it would "fix" their problems.. (i say fix.. but yeah.. )

No, I dont remember when Age of Conan was going be the death of DDO, nor have I implied that Dragons Dogma Online will be the "death" of DDO.. TURBINE will be the death of DDO, I am surprised DDO is still going now, granted it hasn't ALL been turbine's fault, but they do share a good portion of the blame post the Atari/WotC/Hasbro lawsuit that had them sitting on their hands for roughly 2yrs.

There will always be people who insist the game is the best thing ever and refuse to quit playing.. just look at Ultima Online. The question is, are the players who are playing DDO now in denial? I still enjoy a lot of the concepts in DDO, but I also feel like the game needs a MAJOR overhaul.. and I just dont see the money being set aside for it, and I certainly dont see the payoff long term.

MMO's need attentive stewards, who can get ahead of snowballing problems and take care of them with long term solutions.. Sadly, Turbine has not demonstrated those characteristics, all Turbine seems to have been doing is piecework patches to "keep it going" as long as possible.. and now they are reaping the results.. with every new patch breaking old patches... Granted, I may have too high of expectations, as I have seen the same thing in a lot of MMO's.. so I guess they are "average"..


TLDR: Meh... Who cares?

EDIT: Also the $60 implies a purchase price for a "new" game.. if 100,000 copies are sold, so 6 million investment. Then a $15/month sub fee.

[bsquishwizzy]

Would you pay a one time fee of 50$, to help DDO become
something better?

By far this , this is my favorite toy.

My toy needs a serious upgrade.

Docsin

This exists already: "crowdsourcing."

I don't know about you, but I'm not apt to front money for a game that will inevitably charge me for its use. Likewise, only a fool invests without some sort of return or hope of return.

Likewise, DDO is owned by Turbine who in turn is owned by a larger company and has licensing agreements as they do not "own" D&D. These entities will NOT give a go-ahead unless someone, somewhere makes a convincing argument that developing this game does more than make a bunch of fans happy. They want to see big profit numbers (whether they will be realized ort not...don't get me started on this issue). So sourcing money to fund a re-boot of a game is actually a minor issue.

But if you want to front the money? Knock yourself out. It's your money. You do what you want with it.

[esojiul]

This exists already: "crowdsourcing."

I don't know about you, but I'm not apt to front money for a game that will inevitably charge me for its use. Likewise, only a fool invests without some sort of return or hope of return.

Likewise, DDO is owned by Turbine who in turn is owned by a larger company and has licensing agreements as they do not "own" D&D. These entities will NOT give a go-ahead unless someone, somewhere makes a convincing argument that developing this game does more than make a bunch of fans happy. They want to see big profit numbers (whether they will be realized ort not...don't get me started on this issue). So sourcing money to fund a re-boot of a game is actually a minor issue.

But if you want to front the money? Knock yourself out. It's your money. You do what you want with it.

These is game, unless you buy share from WB, is not a bussines, is not fool to put money in a game for fun(only a game), i spend more money 1 day in Montecarlo than 5 year in DDO. dont pretent to wasted more time of my life videogames. These is the only game i play.

the subject of DOC is simple, he want to help, put money on specific project like gnome (example) that are not part of ddo budget, it nice. Raising money for charity or something you want is good.

If you dont like, put your money and time in something you like.

dont waste people time with your commentaries, leave the forum to people who want to put money, an target goals.

Only loser dont do nothing about life situation, people like DOCSIN are people who change things.

[bsquishwizzy]

Pre-fu8nding a game is an investment. Buying time to play a game that already exists is NOT an investment, but an expenditure.

Mainly because there is NO GUARANTEE that when you fund the initial start-up costs of a game it will be developed, and put to market. So, you are taking a literal blind risk to develop a game. Spending money on a risk with ZERO expectations of a reward is advertising that you are basically a con man's easy mark.

When you start up a product, there are no guarantees that it will ever be developed. I develop new software for a living. I can tell you there are lots of products I've started that have been dropped - sometimes a day or two before delivery. So they never see the light of day. And they get dropped for lots of reasons. One of them - and I'll never forget it - was when a company I was developing a product for had to fire their CEO and CFO over an Enron-style accounting scam. When the judge and bank took over, they axed the project even though the company had already spent a significant amount on development costs. So, it happens.

On the other hand, when you purchase a service (DDO) from, say, WB, there is a virtual guarantee that you will receive some sort of service from your purchase.

All of this is basic, basic market economics.

[bsquishwizzy]

If you dont like, put your money and time in something you like.

dont waste people time with your commentaries, leave the forum to people who want to put money, an target goals.

Only loser dont do nothing about life situation, people like DOCSIN are people who change things.

Oh and this last part.

Look-ee here, Junior, my “commentaries” are OFTEN related to direct experience. You don’t work in the software biz for 20+ years doing fairly important stuff without learning a few things.

Throwing money at something doesn’t mean it’ll happen.

There is no Tech Fairy that’ll wave a magic wand and make whatever technology you’re interested in become feasible, and/or affordable. If that were the case, we’d still be watching stuff on Betamax players, and using DC to power our homes.

And no one – and I do mean NO ONE – is going to develop something without it benefitting them in some manner. This is something called “reality.” Maybe you don’t live there, but I do. There are many factors and variables that are involved in developing a new piece of software. Money is only ONE factor.

I really don’t understand the mentality of just throwing money at people and expecting they’ll do whatever it is you fantasize they’ll do. From my experience, this rarely ever ends well. In 90% of the cases, it ends up with a lot of butthurt from delusional “dreamers” like you who are all shocked and agog that someone dare “steal” their money, and shatter their fantasy. Then they generally whine and cry about how someone took advantage of them because things didn’t go EXACTLY the way they wanted them to go. This is especially annoying when people like me TELL YOU UP FRONT that you’re doing something really, really stupid.

Throwing money at something and having expectations but no real investment into the product? That’s basically inviting people using your to subsidize their lifestyle. Just like blindly throwing money away on charity, and not expecting people to do work to support themselves. And then people wonder why people game the system? Ummm…duh?

However, and investor expecting a payoff? That tends to light fires under people because, you know, little things called “expectations.” They expect a return on their investment, and literally push the developers into making that happen. It is a tension that literally needs to exist, because sometimes having a dream, and having the naked ambition to make said dream a reality are two separate and distinct things. And it is rare indeed when someone can have both of those, and repeat those things twice in a lifetime. For the rest of us mere mortals, A simple Return on Investment is one the prime drivers for pushing stuff into the marketplace. And that’s the way things have worked – and worked successfully, I might add – for centuries.

But hey, you seem to think that pipe dreams, unicorns, and rainbows are the answer to everything. Good luck with that one, Junior.

And, if you don’t like my commentaries…too bad.

[royboy]

Been here 8 years.
Seemed like a new server, or something,
Would turn it all around.
I use to play around 40-100 hours a week.
Extremely tired of getting new players involved to DDO,
only for me to have to explain "The Lag".

After reading through all the comments.
I realized how ignorant I am.
Enough time has been spent on this fools errand.
So I'll continue play DDO but not so frequently.

Docsin

[esojiul]

Oh and this last part.

Look-ee here, Junior, my “commentaries” are OFTEN related to direct experience. You don’t work in the software biz for 20+ years doing fairly important stuff without learning a few things.

Throwing money at something doesn’t mean it’ll happen.

There is no Tech Fairy that’ll wave a magic wand and make whatever technology you’re interested in become feasible, and/or affordable. If that were the case, we’d still be watching stuff on Betamax players, and using DC to power our homes.

And no one – and I do mean NO ONE – is going to develop something without it benefitting them in some manner. This is something called “reality.” Maybe you don’t live there, but I do. There are many factors and variables that are involved in developing a new piece of software. Money is only ONE factor.

I really don’t understand the mentality of just throwing money at people and expecting they’ll do whatever it is you fantasize they’ll do. From my experience, this rarely ever ends well. In 90% of the cases, it ends up with a lot of butthurt from delusional “dreamers” like you who are all shocked and agog that someone dare “steal” their money, and shatter their fantasy. Then they generally whine and cry about how someone took advantage of them because things didn’t go EXACTLY the way they wanted them to go. This is especially annoying when people like me TELL YOU UP FRONT that you’re doing something really, really stupid.

Throwing money at something and having expectations but no real investment into the product? That’s basically inviting people using your to subsidize their lifestyle. Just like blindly throwing money away on charity, and not expecting people to do work to support themselves. And then people wonder why people game the system? Ummm…duh?

However, and investor expecting a payoff? That tends to light fires under people because, you know, little things called “expectations.” They expect a return on their investment, and literally push the developers into making that happen. It is a tension that literally needs to exist, because sometimes having a dream, and having the naked ambition to make said dream a reality are two separate and distinct things. And it is rare indeed when someone can have both of those, and repeat those things twice in a lifetime. For the rest of us mere mortals, A simple Return on Investment is one the prime drivers for pushing stuff into the marketplace. And that’s the way things have worked – and worked successfully, I might add – for centuries.

But hey, you seem to think that pipe dreams, unicorns, and rainbows are the answer to everything. Good luck with that one, Junior.

And, if you don’t like my commentaries…too bad.

I have more than 1000 people working for me, after reading these, the only thing come to my mind OMG. total confusion in concepts. Let me know where your did you get you Master degree. Good to know. huge speech for 100usd, give me an idea with the profile of the person.

but the only part is sad is about DOC, if these game loses people like him that want to make differences. I also had better things to do to wasted my time.