Unarmed gearing question

[Nightmanis]

My situation may not be like the majority of other monks (considering I'm actually a rogue with just 2 monk levels) but the gearing should be roughly the same.

Currently my build is a wisdom based rogue/monk focusing on stuns. I do this build because I just love the play style and because I don't really care what build crushes EE content. Does it work in EE? Absolutely yes I can stun stuff even into the hardest content (and will be even better when I get those goggles).

What my question is is pretty simple:

What are you using for gear, specifically bracers? I'm debating on going with the claw set because right now my gloves are the EE Backstabber's for improved deception and insightful sneak, but if I get Strange Tidings from what I understand the deceptions may not stack. If I went with the claw it would allow me a bit more healamp (I'm a bladeforged because easy button) when someone throws a consecrate down and a bit more base damage.

Also, what's everyone's opinions on the TOEE set for wraps? I've only heard one person refer to them and it was basically "run like hell in the other direction", so I'd like a bit more info. Being that the bulk of my damage is still base damage+sneak attack I'm thinking the +20 melee power should be a good reason to do them.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

i dont definitely know one way or the other about the deception on strange tidings stacking or not stacking with improved deception, but backstabbers gloves have insightful sneak attack damage which tidings doesnt have. since youre a bladeforged though you could just get an epic quiver and get more insightful sneak dmg and the concentration penalty shouldnt matter except for ki, but since youre meleeing i doubt that ki would be a huge issue anyway.

for bracers, im now using steady handed armbands or bracers of the twisting shade for +5 seeker as with the new gear ive had to move things around and deadly i can only slot on my cloak, while the bracer slot is wide open (good thing those two bracers exist, otherwise id be really unhappy...). if slotting deadly and 5 seeker elsewhere isnt an issue, claw set sounds good.


i think mortal fear is definitely better for trash when it comes to non twf. for bosses, maybe having a toee set to swap to wouldnt be a bad idea in some cases due to boss dps tf t3s being on crit effects. otoh though, that means you wont have the 35% fort bypass and couldnt count on yourself for vulnerability stacking. and i think toee weaps only get one slot so dr breaking would be completely out the window.

[Nightmanis]

i dont definitely know one way or the other about the deception on strange tidings stacking or not stacking with improved deception, but backstabbers gloves have insightful sneak attack damage which tidings doesnt have. since youre a bladeforged though you could just get an epic quiver and get more insightful sneak dmg and the concentration penalty shouldnt matter except for ki, but since youre meleeing i doubt that ki would be a huge issue anyway.

for bracers, im now using steady handed armbands or bracers of the twisting shade for +5 seeker as with the new gear ive had to move things around and deadly i can only slot on my cloak, while the bracer slot is wide open (good thing those two bracers exist, otherwise id be really unhappy...). if slotting deadly and 5 seeker elsewhere isnt an issue, claw set sounds good.


i think mortal fear is definitely better for trash when it comes to non twf. for bosses, maybe having a toee set to swap to wouldnt be a bad idea in some cases due to boss dps tf t3s being on crit effects. otoh though, that means you wont have the 35% fort bypass and couldnt count on yourself for vulnerability stacking. and i think toee weaps only get one slot so dr breaking would be completely out the window.

That's true about the DR breaking, forgot that bit. I believe we had the discussion in another thread about fort bypass, which also there's the case of if it's a quest like MoD or the like Shadowdancer would be more appropriate than LD which I'm normally in.

I'm not too worried about vulnerability stacking since there's very few times I've ever seen the melee in a group not using at least 1 TF weapon. Since I use assassin's trick liberally depending on the quest (as I did forget about shadowdancer's proc) I normally keep the bio/stat window (*** is that actually called?) open to make sure I'm not wasting time using trick. This lets me know when others are stacking vulnerability up quickly.

I'll have to write down what all I was thinking and see what I'm missing. I know Sightless is more or less the absolute best helm there is for melee, same goes for the vision. I'm currently wearing a deadly 10 cloak because.....well, it's deadly 10. If I find an 11 I'll definitely swap over.

[Nightmanis]

I looked at the prisoner's manacles thinking maybe those would work better, but even at full bore blitzing they're worse than the steady.

[moo_cow]

Also, what's everyone's opinions on the TOEE set for wraps? I've only heard one person refer to them and it was basically "run like hell in the other direction", so I'd like a bit more info. Being that the bulk of my damage is still base damage+sneak attack I'm thinking the +20 melee power should be a good reason to do them.

Back when ToEE first came out I ran the math for my monk. TF was ahead by about 30-40 damage per swing. Throw in the 5% proc chance and the toee wraps don't stand a chance.

[Nightmanis]

Back when ToEE first came out I ran the math for my monk. TF was ahead by about 30-40 damage per swing. Throw in the 5% proc chance and the toee wraps don't stand a chance.

Good to know then. I'll just make the sneak attack shadow scale then too for the deepz.

[LavidDynch]

Pretty much the same setup as any other melee.

Helm: Sightless
Necklace: Pendant of Quiet Movements
Bauble: Epic Litany of the Dead
Cloak: Mysterious
Belt: Battlerager's Harness
Ring 1: ToD Ring (Holy Burst)
Ring 2: Strange Tidings
Gloves: Claw-set
Boots: B. Innocent - Haste, +11 Res, GH. (I'll stick with these til we can actually run EE Defiler and if lucky pull a mythic version of those haste-boots.)
Bracers: Claw -set(30% hamp)
Armor: TOEE Robe -- for 150% fort - 4 mythic (yes, I took ghost touch as my lvl28 feat!)
Goggles: Deadly

Thunderforged Wraps.

[Nightmanis]

Pretty much the same setup as any other melee.

Helm: Sightless
Necklace: Pendant of Quiet Movements
Bauble: Epic Litany of the Dead
Cloak: Mysterious
Belt: Battlerager's Harness
Ring 1: ToD Ring (Holy Burst)
Ring 2: Strange Tidings
Gloves: Claw-set
Boots: B. Innocent - Haste, +11 Res, GH. (I'll stick with these til we can actually run EE Defiler and if lucky pull a mythic version of those haste-boots.)
Bracers: Claw -set(30% hamp)
Armor: TOEE Robe -- for 150% fort - 4 mythic (yes, I took ghost touch as my lvl28 feat!)
Goggles: Deadly

Thunderforged Wraps.

Change the goggles, cloak and ring 1 and that's what I'm thinking would be good.

I'm a glutton for dc's, so I'd go with the precision goggles and ee consuming darkness. Depending on content I'll swap the ring for the skirmisher's ring just for the enjoyment of having balanced attacks being activated by Thor. Cloak is going to remain my deadly cloak for a long long time.

Honestly the toee armor idea doesn't sound bad. However the profane sneak attack on the shadow armor or the +1 DC (which isn't that great) seems much more appealing, and me being bladeforged fort is not something I have to worry about.

I'm thinking the ee backstabbers and the ee steady handed bracers seems like the current best deal.

[LavidDynch]

Change the goggles, cloak and ring 1 and that's what I'm thinking would be good.

I'm a glutton for dc's, so I'd go with the precision goggles and ee consuming darkness. Depending on content I'll swap the ring for the skirmisher's ring just for the enjoyment of having balanced attacks being activated by Thor. Cloak is going to remain my deadly cloak for a long long time.

Honestly the toee armor idea doesn't sound bad. However the profane sneak attack on the shadow armor or the +1 DC (which isn't that great) seems much more appealing, and me being bladeforged fort is not something I have to worry about.

I'm thinking the ee backstabbers and the ee steady handed bracers seems like the current best deal.

I skipped DC's totally, not much worth CCing anymore, don't even have stunning fist -- which explains my choices.

For you the shadow armor is probably the best option and the mysterious cloak is truly worth its investment -- monks have in general awfull MRR and evason doesn't help against everything.

[Nightmanis]

I didn't even see the mrr boost. You're right that in itself is super tempting.

I now need to see about where I can slot deadly.

Any bracers have it?

[LavidDynch]

I didn't even see the mrr boost. You're right that in itself is super tempting.

I now need to see about where I can slot deadly.

Any bracers have it?

bracers and cloaks. DDOwiki has more information. (being lazy here ^^)

[Eth]

I now need to see about where I can slot deadly.

Any bracers have it?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Ethereal_Bracers

[Nightmanis]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Ethereal_Bracers

The fact that I actually was gonna suggest those exact bracers so I didn't have to give up ghostly with the toee armor makes this even more fun.

[Eth]

The fact that I actually was gonna suggest those exact bracers so I didn't have to give up ghostly with the toee armor makes this even more fun.

Those are generally nice for a monk I'd think.
11 dex, 5 AC, 4 saves, 2 slots on top of ghostly and deadly.

[Nightmanis]

Those are generally nice for a monk I'd think.
11 dex, 5 AC, 4 saves, 2 slots on top of ghostly and deadly.

I think I have them on my main. Far better than expecting me to farm ghosts however many times.

[Saekee]

Change the goggles, cloak and ring 1 and that's what I'm thinking would be good.

I'm a glutton for dc's, so I'd go with the precision goggles and ee consuming darkness. Depending on content I'll swap the ring for the skirmisher's ring just for the enjoyment of having balanced attacks being activated by Thor. Cloak is going to remain my deadly cloak for a long long time.

Honestly the toee armor idea doesn't sound bad. However the profane sneak attack on the shadow armor or the +1 DC (which isn't that great) seems much more appealing, and me being bladeforged fort is not something I have to worry about.

I'm thinking the ee backstabbers and the ee steady handed bracers seems like the current best deal.

I know they won't be as good as TF but with all your rogue levels, remember that sneak damage scales massively with melee power. 20+ melee power from ToEE will scale your sneak damage heavily. Nothing beats mortal fear on trash but on bosses, with all your sneak damage and poor crit profile, I wonder if the ToEE set might come ahead?

[Nightmanis]

• 6 GTWF
• 4 Weapon Focus (at best)
• 24 Epic Levels
• 18 LD core
• 70 Blitz
• 6 Sightless
• 5 Nimbleness
• 2 Tome

That's 135 Total I can get with that build without TOEE.

With the TOEE wraps I would have to swap out the wraps, armor and cloak for Hide of the Fallen to try and recover as much innate fort bypass as I can.

So I'm losing:

• 17.5 fire damage
• 6.9 bleed damage (69.5 damage 10% of the time)
• 64 Force damage
• 16.45 Sneak damage (Shadow killer+135MP)
• 15% Fort Bypass innate

I'm gaining:

• 2.2 Specific element damage
• 2.8 maiming
• 7.5 AOE
• 4.53 Weapon (+.5[w]+159MP)

Now, taking into consideration my sneak damage I have to make up.... 87.91 damage a hit.

Just from sneak I get:

• 28 base levels
• 10.5 Improved sneak attack
• 10.5 Enhancements
• 16 Strange
• 5 Backstabber's

Using the 24MP from the set bonus I end up with...130.2.

If somebody could check my math please to make sure it's sound. It seems that even if I didn't get the +2 mythic wraps I'd still be in the clear to out-dps the TF wraps in a boss fight.

The gap pulls even farther away if I use the Adamantine wolf cloak for +5 exceptional seeker as well.

Judging from this then, the 2 best gear loadouts for my style of play would be:

Questing:

1. Sightless
2. Pendant of Quiet Movements
3. Epic Litany of the Dead
4. Mysterious Cloak
5. Battlerager's Harness
6. EE Consuming Darkness
7. Strange Tiding's
8. Epic Ethereal Bracers
9. EE Backstabber's Gloves
10. Boots of Bootiness (Umm....)
11. Shadow Killer Shadowscale docent
12. Visions of Precision
13. 1st Degree/Dragon's Edge/Mortal Fear Thunderforged Wraps.

Raiding and Boss beatdown swaps:

1. TOEE Docent (fire absorption, most likely)
2. TOEE Wraps (acid vulnerability setup?), slotted with whatever DR bypass works best.
3. Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf
4. TOD Alignment Burst ring OR Skirmisher's Ring.

Edit: I see the mistake! Gimme a sec to redo the math.

[Nightmanis]

Ok so let's do the math on the sneak attack again.

Full value without TOEE:

135mp, 70 average sneak damage.

211.75

Full Value with TOEE:

159mp, 70 average sneak damage.

236.95

25.2 damage average difference. We're still over 50 damage a hit off of the TF wraps.

[DrawingGuy]

You're definitely going for max damage if you're willing to give up all heal amp... but you can always swap out BS gloves for Iron Mitts. Are you sure, though, that Deception SA stacks with the BS gloves SA? And don't forget the doublestrike and Insightful SA you can get from Epic Quiver of Alacrity!

As for boots, things to consider:

Many Hooked Greaves - +5 Combat Expertise for stunning moves, and Trip bonuses which you can use for Unbalancing Strikes for more ways to get SA in or actual trip moves, and 12 STR (STR is the only stat you can use for Unarmed damage)

Boots of the Innocent - 1% more attack speed over Ethereal Bracers without needing Haste and perma GH along with Trip bonuses

Blessed Travels - 1% more attack speed without haste, perma FOM, 3 more Ref, 1 more dodge


Between those boots, it depends on your resources and goals. Hooked with Haste is the most DPS along with the superior tactics. The thing is, if you don't need the tactics bonus and can't get solid access to Haste, 1% attack speed > 4 more STR (though Mythic Bonus could close this gap). That leaves whether you care about Trip bonuses or not. If you do, Innocent. You dont, Blessed. GH is easily scrolled, so shouldn't factor in the decision.

[Nightmanis]

You're definitely going for max damage if you're willing to give up all heal amp... but you can always swap out BS gloves for Iron Mitts. Are you sure, though, that Deception SA stacks with the BS gloves SA? And don't forget the doublestrike and Insightful SA you can get from Epic Quiver of Alacrity!

As for boots, things to consider:

Many Hooked Greaves - +5 Combat Expertise for stunning moves, and Trip bonuses which you can use for Unbalancing Strikes for more ways to get SA in or actual trip moves, and 12 STR (STR is the only stat you can use for Unarmed damage)

Boots of the Innocent - 1% more attack speed over Ethereal Bracers without needing Haste and perma GH along with Trip bonuses

Blessed Travels - 1% more attack speed without haste, perma FOM, 3 more Ref, 1 more dodge


Between those boots, it depends on your resources and goals. Hooked with Haste is the most DPS along with the superior tactics. The thing is, if you don't need the tactics bonus and can't get solid access to Haste, 1% attack speed > 4 more STR (though Mythic Bonus could close this gap). That leaves whether you care about Trip bonuses or not. If you do, Innocent. You dont, Blessed. GH is easily scrolled, so shouldn't factor in the decision.

Boots will mostly just be if I ever pull them from the raid or if I find something else that comes up.

Healamp already sucks terribly because I'm a bladeforged. I have a heal stick kama from when I used to scroll myself on her last human life and with that a heal scroll hits me for 123. Flat out pathetic. My next best option is to just increase my defenses and carry spell pots to replenish with.

I don't use anything for trip because I barely have the dc's to pull them off. Could I raise them? Probably. If I pulled the hooked greaves I could swap the darkness for the other 2 options I suggested (probably stick with the skirmisher's just for the sheer enjoyment of that proc).