DDOCast 394 - DDO Debates: The Big Important Stuff

[pjstechie]

Lessah guest moderates this installment of DDO Debates that covers the big important things in DDO right now - so big that our panel needed an extra person! Enjoy Samius Gurobo, Axel, Chai & Shamgar as they discuss and debate several topics!

Have thoughts on this show, ideas for round table topics, questions you want to ask us, or topics you’d like to see us debate? Leave us a comment, send us an email (ddocast@gmail.com) or give us a tweet (@ddocast)!

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DDO Debates - 1:22
Do we need a new difficulty? What should the new difficulty be? - 7:04
What is the worst designed raid? - 27:34
What do you want to see for a raid? - 41:41
Are classes balanced with each other and the game? What class is over performing? What class is underperforming? - 52:03
Are monster champions good for the game? Are they working? - 1:03:47
What game system needs to be revisited and/or expanded? - 1:13:56
Did the armor up PRR/MRR changes go to far? Are they too good? - 1:25:44
What should the necessary XP look like to get to level 30? - 1:37:58
What should the new DnD movie be? - 1:44:18
Closing - 1:53:50

[Vargouille]

I've been behind on DDO blogcastsocialspheremediums, but I made a point to make sure I got through this whole show since it was so topical and full of crunchy bits. Finally did, good show as usual, well done all.

Just the table of contents is exciting. If others have thoughts, chime on in. (The first topic may have had plenty said recently... =)

• Do we need a new difficulty? What should the new difficulty be? - 7:04
• What is the worst designed raid? - 27:34
• What do you want to see for a raid? - 41:41
• Are classes balanced with each other and the game? What class is over performing? What class is underperforming? - 52:03
• Are monster champions good for the game? Are they working? - 1:03:47
• What game system needs to be revisited and/or expanded? - 1:13:56
• Did the armor up PRR/MRR changes go to far? Are they too good? - 1:25:44
• What should the necessary XP look like to get to level 30? - 1:37:58
• What should the new DnD movie be? - 1:44:18

This particular 'cast has at least an hour on "DDO systems/areas Vargouille has contributed to and/or will contribute to in the future", so extra thanks for an episode almost custom made for meeeeeeeeee.

/onlyafewweekslatesamemonthcloseenough

[Qhualor]

I don't listen or watch these kinds of things very much, but this one had some good hot topics and really enjoyed listening.

and when/if these changes happen, I now know who to blame

[UurlockYgmeov]

[Gratch]

Heh... I like that during the "Worst Designed Raid Ever" there wasn't a single mention of Caught in the Web.

Despite the ~40 pages of Lama threads calling it the "Worst DESIGNED Raid Ever" during its debug as well as outright attacks on the developers. How dare you design a raid that makes us walk some girl all over a map!!!! HOW DARE YOU!
Or the 20 pages on the live forum with the same discussion.
Take that forumers who think they know which raid will be the best designed and which the worst (in current hindsight mode).

It may only be middle of the road raid now, but not one mention of being the worst designed from the panel.

Edit: Updated and expanded with greater use of "Designed"

[pjstechie]

Heh... I like that during the "Worst Raid Ever" there wasn't a single mention of Caught in the Web.

Despite the ~40 pages of Lama threads calling it the "Worst Raid Ever" during its debug as well as outright attacks on the developers.
Or the 20 pages on the live forum with the same title.
Take that forumers who think they know which raid will be the best and which the worst (in current hindsight mode).

It may only be middle of the road raid now, but not one mention of being the worst from the panel.

I would point out that the question was about design, not how well it was released, how buggy it was, or how much we or players liked it

[Hafeal]

Varg -

Thanks for the insight, again, to demonstrate the devs listen to the player base.


Patrick & Co. at DDOCast -

First and foremost, thank you for the show and all you do. I really appreciate and enjoy the podcast - even when I may disagree or wish someone had added another thought that seemed to be missing.

If I have *one* constructive criticism - of this podcast particularly, I perceive a lack of insight for the truly casual player and little more than lip service for new players. The guests - while entertaining and very insightful, are often talking on points that casual players may be a long way from enjoying. I think a casual perspective would be helpful to round out the conversations.

[pjstechie]

If I have *one* constructive criticism - of this podcast particularly, I perceive a lack of insight for the truly casual player and little more than lip service for new players. The guests - while entertaining and very insightful, are often talking on points that casual players may be a long way from enjoying. I think a casual perspective would be helpful to round out the conversations.

thanks for the critique, it's something I'm aware of but is challenging for me specifically. I have a long playing experience so it is sometimes difficult to wrap my head around that perspective. There are a couple guests that are more new player friendly minded than I - and I confess I have voiced my own approach, gotten feedback, and changed my approach.

what would be greatly beneficial to me as I prepare for the cast are specific topics you think we should cover. I have a list, but it is dwindling and it is in large part a list that I created. It's not easy coming up with a topic every week and finding a set of guests that are really in their forte to talk about it. (Sometimes I've had guests that were "off topic" where their knowledge is concerned and its showed in the end result and feedback). This is something I ask for every week because I want to be covering topics the listeners want to hear, but I rarely if ever get feedback on this.

I also think you will find this week's episode to your liking

[FranOhmsford]

thanks for the critique, it's something I'm aware of but is challenging for me specifically. I have a long playing experience so it is sometimes difficult to wrap my head around that perspective. There are a couple guests that are more new player friendly minded than I - and I confess I have voiced my own approach, gotten feedback, and changed my approach.

The problem I see though is that you filled the panel with players known as the best of the best - Powergamers all!

Players who have no idea of just how many people have problems even in Heroic Elites {Never mind Epics}.
Players who can solo EEs in a 6 man group - Of course they don't have party wipes!
Players who don't understand that it's a bad idea to segregate players {DDO simply doesn't have a large enough population to do so!} and Elite is the Default BECAUSE you HAVE to be able to play Elite just to get a group!


The benefit of "Reaper" will be that it gives Elite players an option to run a higher difficulty when they want a Challenge!
Adding a load of Rewards to it that make it easier WILL make it the Default just like Elite is now AND WILL leave those same players complaining yet again that it's too easy!



And before you dismiss my points because you think I'm a gimp who doesn't know how to play the game - Just yesterday I got told BY A LEGEND that I had a really powerful Bard {In Heroic Tide Turns on E-BB!} while I knew that I was taking 2-3 minutes longer per quest on that character than on other characters!
There are plenty of players in DDO who people on these forums completely dismiss as not existing!

[FranOhmsford]

Clerics are massively underperforming compared to the game!
Their reason for being has been downgraded so significantly it's impossible to over-rate how much!
Their Melee DPS, Turns and Caster DPS/CC is massively weaker than other toons. And EE is completely out of reach for the majority of Pure {or close to Pure} Clerics!

DC Casting IS Dead so Wizards are hurting bad.

FvSs and Druids {Non Multiclassed Woof Builds} are also significantly underperforming compared to the game!

Monks {Pure} and Artis are seriously weak these days!

Sorcs, Fighters and Rangers are actually OK and would be the last on my list for a boost {which they WILL need once all other classes have got theirs!} - The boosts to them won't need to be much though.



As for over-performing - NOT Paladins! {Paladins are just right!}. - Holy Sword has been nerfed TWICE already {the second of which simply was not needed!}.
The actual classes that ARE over-performing are Warlocks and Barbarians!

[Chai]

The problem I see though is that you filled the panel with players known as the best of the best - Powergamers all!

Players who have no idea of just how many people have problems even in Heroic Elites {Never mind Epics}.
Players who can solo EEs in a 6 man group - Of course they don't have party wipes!
Players who don't understand that it's a bad idea to segregate players {DDO simply doesn't have a large enough population to do so!} and Elite is the Default BECAUSE you HAVE to be able to play Elite just to get a group!

Not really - some of us have been involved and active in teaching channels. If you are in either of the two teaching channels on sarlona over the years its possible we helped you learn what you know of the game.

[pjstechie]

The problem I see though is that you filled the panel with players known as the best of the best - Powergamers all!

I filled the panel with people I knew were passionate about the topics we were discussing. We had been trying to get Samius on a debate show for a while, he kind of also called Chai out previously, and I invited Axel onto the show because of his video blog. I did not actively look for the "best of the best" but rather folks who were already talking about these topics.

I would be happy to have newer players on the show, but I dont as a rule go out blindly inviting folks. And I simply don't run into many of those folks in my normal course of gaming. I also dont realistically have any more time I can give to the show. I constantly put out an open invitation to be a part of the show but very very few engage in that manner. I get maybe 1 or 2 comments a week out of hundreds of views. Unless a dev comments...

Players who have no idea of just how many people have problems even in Heroic Elites {Never mind Epics}.
Players who can solo EEs in a 6 man group - Of course they don't have party wipes!
Players who don't understand that it's a bad idea to segregate players {DDO simply doesn't have a large enough population to do so!} and Elite is the Default BECAUSE you HAVE to be able to play Elite just to get a group!

There are plenty of players in DDO who people on these forums completely dismiss as not existing!

I feel pretty confident that none of these apply to me.

[Hafeal]

thanks for the critique, it's something I'm aware of but is challenging for me specifically. I have a long playing experience so it is sometimes difficult to wrap my head around that perspective. There are a couple guests that are more new player friendly minded than I - and I confess I have voiced my own approach, gotten feedback, and changed my approach.

what would be greatly beneficial to me as I prepare for the cast are specific topics you think we should cover. I have a list, but it is dwindling and it is in large part a list that I created. It's not easy coming up with a topic every week and finding a set of guests that are really in their forte to talk about it. (Sometimes I've had guests that were "off topic" where their knowledge is concerned and its showed in the end result and feedback). This is something I ask for every week because I want to be covering topics the listeners want to hear, but I rarely if ever get feedback on this.

I also think you will find this week's episode to your liking

I am looking forward to the episode. I appreciate that topics are tough; you have been doing such a good job, I have not thought you needed much help but I will see what I can come up with on a quick basis here:

1) A "Back to Basics" series (perhaps 1 a month) on topics like this for example:

a) 1 episode for Feats and guidelines for taking at which levels;
b) 1 episode for Enhancements, perhaps with a short history of their evolution;
c) 1 episode for spells and spells only - spell schools, descriptions, effectiveness, meta magics, good spells, bad spells, why;
d) 1 episode dedicated to Races and Classes.

While *I know* much of this can be found on the Wiki, an episode is nice for a a compilation and for listening rather than active searching. In addition, you can then get the opinions of some great vet players who can add in "what works and what doesn't" sort of viewpoints.

2) An episode dedicated to the lore of Eberron and FR; a recapping of the story lines and how they string all of DDO together;

3) A debate over the the best explorer areas and how they can be made even better;

4) An interview series with some of the forum personalities who have not regularly appeared on the show - anything from a guest appearance co-host to a Budweiser hot seat style 3 question set;

5) Ditto 4 for more devs;

6) A recap of the 2014 DDO PC and see what their thoughts are in reflection;

7) A current round table of the 2015 PC for a peek as to the year and its progress.


Anyway, I'll see if I can think of some more.

[pjstechie]

I am looking forward to the episode. I appreciate that topics are tough; you have been doing such a good job, I have not thought you needed much help but I will see what I can come up with on a quick basis here:

1) A "Back to Basics" series (perhaps 1 a month) on topics like this for example:

a) 1 episode for Feats and guidelines for taking at which levels;
b) 1 episode for Enhancements #303, perhaps with a short history of their evolution;
c) 1 episode for spells and spells only - spell schools, descriptions, effectiveness, meta magics, good spells, bad spells, why;
d) 1 episode dedicated to Races #362and Classes.

I try to maintain a 3 week cycle: Topic, Build, Debate. Ive been working my way through different classes, build archetypes, and more recently, gear slots. I've mostly been taking a whole episode for each for more depth. Is there something missing from them?

2) An episode dedicated to the lore of Eberron and FR; a recapping of the story lines and how they string all of DDO together; been on the list, but honestly not high on my own interests and I keep pushing it off for other things more "often" requested

3) A debate over the the best explorer areas and how they can be made even better; good topic

4) An interview series with some of the forum personalities who have not regularly appeared on the show - anything from a guest appearance co-host to a Budweiser hot seat style 3 question set; know anyone? becuase i dont have the time to blindly search. have them email ddocast@gmail.com!

5) Ditto 4 for more devs; Its been a while, but I have been poking Jerry to talk with the devs some more, but unless its a preview (and we couldnt make the last one work schedule wise) they do it on their own time for which i am extremely thankful

6) A recap of the 2014 DDO PC and see what their thoughts are in reflection; #351

7) A current round table of the 2015 PC for a peek as to the year and its progress.its on my list


Anyway, I'll see if I can think of some more.

thanks for the specific ideas, they are much more helpful than the generic "more new player topics"

Looking at my list of shows, there have been several that are (i thought) targeting newer/less experienced/not power gamer players. Is there something you find lacking within those discussions?

ex:
307 - new player tips
320 - TR tips
313 - playing solo
330 - maximizing premium/F2P
332 - elevating your game play
337, 338, 340 - PUGs
342 - staying alive
353 - new player integration
359 - zerging
372 - hotbars

[axel15810]

If I have *one* constructive criticism - of this podcast particularly, I perceive a lack of insight for the truly casual player and little more than lip service for new players. The guests - while entertaining and very insightful, are often talking on points that casual players may be a long way from enjoying. I think a casual perspective would be helpful to round out the conversations.

That's fair criticism. This panel was filled with experienced players but I know on DDOcast that isn't always the case. It just happened to be the case this time. Definitely check out some older episodes, I know Patrick has had a lot of discussions more geared toward and including newer players.

The problem I see though is that you filled the panel with players known as the best of the best - Powergamers all!

Players who have no idea of just how many people have problems even in Heroic Elites {Never mind Epics}.
Players who can solo EEs in a 6 man group - Of course they don't have party wipes!
Players who don't understand that it's a bad idea to segregate players {DDO simply doesn't have a large enough population to do so!} and Elite is the Default BECAUSE you HAVE to be able to play Elite just to get a group!

I personally don't consider myself a powergamer, I have always run middle of the road builds - normally a battle cleric of some kind. I don't reincarnate very often. I do solo EEs from time to time and but spend most of my time pugging. So I suppose I could fit the powergamer mold depending on what someone would consider a powergamer. But I was a new player once and have not forgotten what it's like, so I always keep them in mind regardless.

[pjstechie]

This particular 'cast has at least an hour on "DDO systems/areas Vargouille has contributed to and/or will contribute to in the future", so extra thanks for an episode almost custom made for meeeeeeeeee.

glad you enjoyed it!

now about that Tarrasque....