Phoenix Style Heroic Build (15/3/2 Pally/Monk/Fighter)

[Bliinky]

This is meant to be a revival of Sigtrent's "Le Petit Phoenix" build, which I enjoyed playing around the time it was created, revamped to use modern enhancements and dragonmark rules. The original build is located here:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...83#post3576583

Much of the build philosophy has remained the same as in the original post, so check that out. In my revised version, I have included manyshot for situational ranged usefulness, since many of the feats in the original build are obsolete and can be replaced. Melee combat is covered by ninja spy weapons for DEX to hit and damage without requiring weapon finesse. I'd appreciate any thoughts, comments, links to someone who's done this before but better, etc. c;

Le Phoenix Renaît
15/3/2 Paladin/Monk/Fighter
Lawful Good Halfling


Level Order

1. Monk. . . . . . 6. Fighter. . . . 11. Paladin. . . . 16. Paladin
2. Paladin. . . . .7. Paladin. . . . 12. Paladin. . . . 17. Paladin
3. Paladin. . . . .8. Paladin. . . . 13. Paladin. . . . 18. Paladin
4. Monk. . . . . . 9. Fighter. . . . 14. Paladin. . . . 19. Paladin
5. Monk. . . . . .10. Paladin . . . .15. Paladin . . . .20. Paladin


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 13. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 16. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . .8. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . 14. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . 14. . .


Skills
. . . . . M .P .P .M. M .F. P. P. F .P .P .P .P .P .P .P .P .P .P .P
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4. 5 .6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4 .1 .1 .1. 1 . . 1. 1. . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .21
Balance . 4 . . . .2. 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8
Jump. . . 3 . . . . . . .1. . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .12 .1 .1 .3. 3 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1


Feats

.1. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Healing
.1 Monk . : Two Weapon Fighting
.2 Deity. : Follower of: Silver Flame
.3. . . . : Power Attack
.4 Monk . : Zen Archery
.5 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
.6. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.6 Fighter: Rapid Shot
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
.9 Fighter: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
11 Deity. : Silver Flame Exorcism
12. . . . : Manyshot
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Empower Healing Spell


Spells

1. Divine Favor, Lesser Restoration, Cure Light Wounds
2. Angelskin, Resist Energy
3. Prayer, Cure Moderate Wounds
4. Holy Sword, Zeal

Enhancements (80 AP)

Halfling (14 AP)

• Halfling Luck, Dexterity, Halfling Luck II, Dexterity II
  
  1. Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III, Acrobatic I
  2. Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
  3. Greater Dragonmark of Healing

Knight of the Chalice (40 AP)

• Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven
  
  1. Divine Light II, Extra Smite II
  2. Exalted Cleave III, Melee Power Boost I
  3. Divine Sacrifice III, Vigor of Life, Exalted Smite III
  4. Censure Demons, Passion III, Vigor of Life, Empowered Smite
  5. Censure Outsiders, Holy Retribution III, Vigor of Life, Avenging Cleave III

Shintao (12 AP)

• Bastion of Purity
  
  1. Deft Strikes III
  2. Fists of Iron, Conditioning III

Ninja Spy (9 AP)

• Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training
  
  1. Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic II
  2. Agility III

Kensei (5 AP)

• Kensei Focus: Light Blades
  
  1. Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost II

[unbongwah]

I have included manyshot for situational ranged usefulness

The only way to get DEX-to-dmg with a longbow is Elven Grace enhancement. Adv Ninja Training used to provide DEX-to-dmg w/bows if you had Zen Archery, but that got nerfed a long time ago.

So you should either go STR-based; or you should consider using shuriken instead, since Shuriken Expertise + Adv Ninja Training proc chances are based on DEX.

[Bliinky]

I know the longbows won't be getting damage from DEX, so it will be relatively low DPS, but with only 3 monk levels, I wouldn't be able to take 10k Stars. which I feel would severely reduce the effectiveness of including shurikens. Do you think that replacing Zen Archery with Shuriken Expertise and Manyshot with Quick Draw (perhaps shuffling feat order) would provide a better option, damage-wise? It would also be easy enough to get damage from DEX on shurikens from the Halfling tree (which I'm already fairly thoroughly invested in). The only problem I might have with that is the relative lack of named (or even decent non-named) shuriken compared to longbows.

EDIT: Did a quick rework including that, and switched over to Sovereign Host for Unyielding Sovereignty to match the "ridiculous survivability" theme:

Le Phoenix Renaît
15/3/2 Paladin/Monk/Fighter
Lawful Good Halfling


Level Order

1. Monk. . . . . . 6. Fighter. . . . 11. Paladin. . . . 16. Paladin
2. Paladin. . . . .7. Paladin. . . . 12. Paladin. . . . 17. Paladin
3. Paladin. . . . .8. Paladin. . . . 13. Paladin. . . . 18. Paladin
4. Monk. . . . . . 9. Fighter. . . . 14. Paladin. . . . 19. Paladin
5. Monk. . . . . .10. Paladin . . . .15. Paladin . . . .20. Paladin


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 13. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 16. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . .8. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . 14. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . 14. . .


Skills
. . . . . M .P .P .M. M .F. P. P. F .P .P .P .P .P .P .P .P .P .P .P
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4. 5 .6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4 .1 .1 .1. 1 . . 1. 1. . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .21
Balance . 4 . . . .2. 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8
Jump. . . 3 . . . . . . .1. . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .12 .1 .1 .3. 3 .1. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1


Feats

.1. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Healing
.1 Monk . : Two Weapon Fighting
.2 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.3. . . . : Power Attack
.4 Monk . : Shuriken Expertise
.5 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
.6. . . . : Quick Draw
.6 Fighter: Point Blank Shot
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
.9 Fighter: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
11 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
12. . . . : Rapid Shot
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Empower Healing Spell


Spells

1. Divine Favor, Lesser Restoration, Cure Light Wounds
2. Angelskin, Resist Energy
3. Prayer, Cure Moderate Wounds
4. Holy Sword, Zeal

Enhancements (80 AP)

Halfling (17 AP)

• Halfling Luck, Dexterity, Halfling Luck II, Dexterity II
  
  1. Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III, Acrobatic I
  2. Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
  3. Greater Dragonmark of Healing, Skillful Thrower
  4. Master Thrower

Knight of the Chalice (40 AP)

• Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven
  
  1. Divine Light II, Extra Smite II
  2. Exalted Cleave III, Melee Power Boost I
  3. Divine Sacrifice III, Vigor of Life, Exalted Smite III
  4. Censure Demons, Passion III, Vigor of Life, Empowered Smite
  5. Censure Outsiders, Holy Retribution III, Vigor of Life, Avenging Cleave III

Shintao (12 AP)

• Bastion of Purity
  
  1. Deft Strikes III
  2. Fists of Iron, Conditioning III

Ninja Spy (8 AP)

• Basic Ninja Training, Advanced Ninja Training
  
  1. Sneak Attack Training, Acrobatic II
  2. Agility II

Kensei (3 AP)

• Kensei Focus: Light Blades
  
  1. Weapon Group Specialization

[unbongwah]

I know the longbows won't be getting damage from DEX, so it will be relatively low DPS, but with only 3 monk levels, I wouldn't be able to take 10k Stars. which I feel would severely reduce the effectiveness of including shurikens. Do you think that replacing Zen Archery with Shuriken Expertise and Manyshot with Quick Draw (perhaps shuffling feat order) would provide a better option, damage-wise?

Many shuriken builds only take 3 monk lvls for Adv Ninja Training and ignore 10K Stars; this lets them dump WIS and not worry about the Doubleshot penalty from 10K. These builds are usually pure thrower builds, though, focused on sustained ranged DPS; I'm guessing you just want a decent burst DPS option as a backup.

TBH, I don't think Phoenix builds have aged well, but if you really want one, I would go STR+CHA-based with pal 15 / monk 3 / rgr 2 using short swords + bows.

[Bliinky]

I'm guessing you just want a decent burst DPS option as a backup.

This exactly. I will have to crunch some numbers to see whether bows with manyshot or shurikens with expertise will better fit what I'm looking for. I'm actually leaning towards shurikens at this point though.

if you really want one, I would go STR+CHA-based with pal 15 / monk 3 / rgr 2 using short swords + bows.

This option would sacrifice quite a bit in terms of defenses (especially AC and reflex). I think it would work if my primary goal was a phoenix style build that did damage, however, my goal for this build is mostly to have second tier DPS in exchange for huge survivability. Also, unless I'm mistaken, building this way would still require 17+ DEX to get GTWF? I feel like that starts to spread the stats very thin...

[Bliinky]

After doing some math, it actually appears that despite the nice stacking extra shuriken and damage I could put on with my DEX, longbows with manyshot should roughly out-DPS the shuriken so long as I use the bow on average less than about 45 seconds per manyshot cd. It's important to note that my math was based on the actual longbows and shuriken that I expect to be able to easily find, as I'm not interested in grind farming for each shuriken, and my cannith crafting levels aren't high enough to make my own to any degree of effectiveness. The sparse use of the bow does fit with my concept of how I want to play the build, however, so I'm leaning back towards the longbow concept again.