Update 27 Preview!

[Postumus]

3 times without repeating much...

How many times should we be able to run through 20-28 without repeating quests before people stop saying "There's not enough content?"

Would 10 times through 20-28 without repeating be enough content for you?

No, I just have a hard time believing there are 20 million XPs in epic content without repeating some quests a lot.


There are 103 total epic quests & raids. You would have to average 192K XP per quest to be able to one and done all of them and get the 19.8 million XP you'd need to go from 20-28 three times. Add in challenges, that's another, what, 8 or 10? That still means each quest/challenge/raid would need to average 175K XPs per quest. Is that what you are averaging?

[Ape_Man]

No, I just have a hard time believing there are 20 million XPs in epic content without repeating some quests a lot.


There are 103 total epic quests & raids. You would have to average 192K XP per quest to be able to one and done all of them and get the 19.8 million XP you'd need to go from 20-28 three times. Add in challenges, that's another, what, 8 or 10? That still means each quest/challenge/raid would need to average 175K XPs per quest. Is that what you are averaging?

Explorer areas, XP tomes and Pots I assume are included in this.

[Xionanx]

No, I just have a hard time believing there are 20 million XPs in epic content without repeating some quests a lot.


There are 103 total epic quests & raids. You would have to average 192K XP per quest to be able to one and done all of them and get the 19.8 million XP you'd need to go from 20-28 three times. Add in challenges, that's another, what, 8 or 10? That still means each quest/challenge/raid would need to average 175K XPs per quest. Is that what you are averaging?

Clearly its not, and these people who think its "fine" are clearly not playing like the "rest" of us play. Which is, non vip, 5% Voice, and 5% shrine if your lucky, EBB was used already in heroics, and you dont own all the packs.. so yeah, going from 20-28 takes forever..

However, if you are ViP, Own all Packs, somehow have an unlimited supply of 50% pots, and who knows what other kind of bonus's, and managed to skip all the quests you could EE during heroics, oh.. and do all the slayers for Orchad/Gh/Thunder.. then yeah, getting from 20-28 is "easy". You might be able to manage it 2x without "much" repeating.

[Tlorrd]

As previously stated, we expect character to be at level cap for Epic Reincarnation or Iconic True Reincarnation. These requirements would move to level 30.



As previously stated, we haven't determined how much XP will be required to reach level 30, and we may re-examine existing epic level XP requirements.

I would change the xp to spread from level 20-30 to a total of 12 million xp, keep karma at 6 million xp and allow a destiny that has full karma xp to "eTR" but don't go back to level 20 unless you are capped at level 30. Thus you get 2 eTRs during your rise to level 30. Sure some people have destinies capped now, but it will balance out after they spend that karma, after all it has been earned thus far. I know it's extreme amount of xp, but hey, that's ddo

[Algonem]

Clearly its not, and these people who think its "fine" are clearly not playing like the "rest" of us play. Which is, non vip, 5% Voice, and 5% shrine if your lucky, EBB was used already in heroics, and you dont own all the packs.. so yeah, going from 20-28 takes forever..

However, if you are ViP, Own all Packs, somehow have an unlimited supply of 50% pots, and who knows what other kind of bonus's, and managed to skip all the quests you could EE during heroics, oh.. and do all the slayers for Orchad/Gh/Thunder.. then yeah, getting from 20-28 is "easy". You might be able to manage it 2x without "much" repeating.

Never been a more true post.

[Gurei23]

until there is enough content for level 30, yes.

Divorce the level requirement from ETR, simply let us do it when we have 6 million Karma.

Agreed.

As for Iconics, would it be possible to give them their own "sphere" so to speak for the xp required for an ITR?

[salmag]

GNOMES?!?

Finally a mention of them. Maybe there is hope on the horizon. Only took 10 years to mention them.

[Gljosh]

Another option would simply be to continue allowing ETR/ITR at level 28+ and not have to re-adjust the XP values.

The advantage/disadvantage of letting it happen at 6 million Karma would be that I'd just play till I had all 4 spheres filled and then do four immediate ETRs (It also then leaves ITR without a good solution)

ALL OF THIS!!! Just keep the "you can grind heart seeds AT CAP ONLY'. I would totally stay at 28 (or 30) if I could grind my ETRs this way. My Divine is already maxed (9 past lives), my Martial is at 6 million, but I still need another 2.1 million to reach 28 so I can Martial ETR again. You can keep Iconics as the "At Cap" feature.

[Thrudh]

No, I just have a hard time believing there are 20 million XPs in epic content without repeating some quests a lot.

There is totally that much experience.

Although it's after a heroic TR so all slayers are reset, and I usually run with a 30% pot, and I'm VIP.

But first time through I get all the saga chains, and I don't even touch Epic BC, or the low level Eberron epics... Second time through I get all the Eberron epics, and then get epic BC, and repeat the GH sagas probably... and third time through, I get the new Xoriat stuff, and the Temple of Elemental Evil, etc.

I really don't repeat that much... Sure, I'll run Spies or VON 3 for off-destiny XP every other day (I'm smart that way), but my main leveling work is done without repeating a lot of stuff I've done before...

After one heroic and 3-4 epic TRs, I'm usually bored with a guy, and switch to an alt, and start all over...

There's a TON of epic XP.... Maybe not for the powergamers who already have completionist, and only 1 character, but if you do a heroic TR every so often on an alt, epic level quests have a ton of variety.

[Chi_Ryu]

As previously stated, we haven't determined how much XP will be required to reach level 30, and we may re-examine existing epic level XP requirements.

That's good.

Levels 29 and 30 at the current pattern would be an extra 3.15M XP, for a total of 9.75M. I don't know where people are getting 4M from.

I like the level progression at epics, but 3.15M is quite a chunk more. A less grindy approach that still keeps most of the level progression would be to make the XP needed per level just stop increasing after a point (I'd suggest al level 25 or 26), which would make something like:

Level 21: 300k
Level 22: 750k
Level 23: 1.35M
Level 24: 2.1M
Level 25: 3M (XP/level now constant)
Level 26: 3.9M
Level 27: 4.8M
Level 28: 5.7M
Level 29: 6.6M
Level 30: 7.5M (for 900k more, barely noticable)

Or, for a later slowdown:
Level 21: 300k
Level 22: 750k
Level 23: 1.35M
Level 24: 2.1M
Level 25: 3M
Level 26: 4.05M (XP/level now constant)
Level 27: 5.1M
Level 28: 6.15M
Level 29: 7.2M
Level 30: 8.25M (for 1.65M extra)

[Deadlock]

There's going to be quite a lot of quests added between the level cap going to 28 and the level cap going to 30. You've seen many of them already!

Okay, I'm going to be pedantic here. The only quests being added between now and level 30 that we've seen already are the quests in U27 on Lamannia. That's 4 quests.

So 4 quests are "many" which means you're looking at Epic Vale then level cap to 30. So another 4 quests and you think we're all good?

[Deadlock]

As previously stated, we haven't determined how much XP will be required to reach level 30, and we may re-examine existing epic level XP requirements.

Okay, so given that you're determined to stick with ETR and ITR being "at cap", let's suppose you decide not to change the XP requirements. That sounds like an asinine reward to those who have bought Otto boxes. Or is it to provide added incentive for people to buy these in the future?

Adding new quests and then requiring those quests to be run in addition to the existing content for people to be able to ETR/ITR just penalises people for either their lack of playtime or their inability/unwillingness to buy Otto boxes. This makes absolutely no sense.

You either change the experience curve so people can ETR/ITR or you keep the curve and allow people to ETR/ITR from level 28 onwards. Otherwise you're requiring people to do more than we currently do. What's the justification for that? Because seriously man, I can't fathom it.

[Silverleafeon]

An easy way to change the XP curve (one of several ways to deal with the problem) is to change the increment value from 150k to 100k. I did the numbers awhile back and its a fairly good compromise.

Old:
Level 21 Level 22 Level 23 Level 24 Level 25 Level 26 Level 27 Level 28
Experience Gain to Next Level
300,000 450,000 600,000 750,000 900,000 1,050,000 1,200,000 1,350,000
Total Experience Needed
300,000 750,000 1,350,000 2,100,000 3,000,000 4,050,000 5,250,000 6,600,000


New:

Level 21 Level 22 Level 23 Level 24 Level 25 Level 26 Level 27 Level 28 Level 29 Level 30
Experience Gain to Next Level
300,000 400,000 500,000 600,000 700,000 800,000 900,000 1,000,000 1,100,000 1,200,000
Total Experience Needed
300,000 700,000 1,200,000 1,800,000 2,500,000 3,300,000 4,200,000 5,100,000 6,200,000 7,400,000


So new amount required to get level cap is a "mere" 800k which is well within my range of what a comprimise solution would be.




However, there are other options, another of which would be ~ Epic Levels now receive a First Time Quest is done this Week +40ish% bonus. This presses seeking out new quests, and takes care of the increase in xp by providing a obtainable bonus equililant to the increased xp.




Another solution would be to create a new reincarnation system jumping from level 28 to 30, leaving the old reincarnation system in place as is. The new one could have the name Epic Demi-god or the like attached to it. This would encourage upper level lesser type reincarnations while doing end game raiding.



Another solution that is not directly tied to the problem is creating an over flow Demi-God (above level 30) system. Anytime a toon earn xp that is "wasted" ~ not applied to any heroic or epic levels (ok to apply to sentient weapons or ED), it goes into a Demi-God leveling Xp system. The Demi-God Xp system has extremely large per level requirements (think millions of xp) along with very low rewards (think +2 hp and +2 sp, etc). However there is no limits on how many demi-god levels you can obtain. There might be limits of when the rewards are applied (think maybe epic only or level cap only or all levels depending).

[FestusHood]

They could consider capping the amount of xp needed to gain levels 29 and 30 at the same amount needed to get level 28. Like how guild renown per level caps at 1 million.

Not sure how hard it would be to do, but they could reset first time bonuses on on epic reincarnation.

Right now, the run from 20-28 takes much less time than going from 1-20, at least for me. It's not possible for me to run all epic content the first trip through without capping, and most of the time i have no streak bonus and no xp pot going at all.

[Steve_Howe]

GNOMES?!?

Finally a mention of them. Maybe there is hope on the horizon. Only took 10 years to mention them.

Oh, hell no!!

[Certon]

divorce the level requirement from etr, simply let us do it when we have 6 million karma.

this.

[TheWalruss]

Boom!

Nice job guys, can't wait to play this update.