U27 Items Official Discussion - Round 2

[Saekee]

im realy giddy about longsword, there is not many good ones in ddo, as oposed to bastard swords, khopeshes and all that kind,recent longswords were treated like utility offhand weapon, im happy to see a one that is treated like weapon, i think though that sword could use something else than improved banishment, something more unique than that for a longsword, like negative levels or limbchop, or a composite new effect that does few diffrent effects depending on if its a hit, crit or 20, but otherwise, waiting for it.
.

From Steelstar:
+13, Improved Banishing, Sovereign Vorpal, Axiomatic X, Armor Piercing 20%, Doublestrike 15%, Red Augment Slot, Orange Augment Slot (Crit Range of 17-20)

It would be interesting to have some sort of effect that is tied to its crazy crit range, even Axiomatic Burst, or Good Blast (even Great Godly Wrath). Bloodletter would not be in sinc with its apparent lore, which seems to be tied to the tendency to make longswords in DDO seem like Paladin weapons (see my old thread here).

I am assuming Flametouched iron or Cold Iron too? There are few epic named longswords of worth; Oathblade is great at its level but gets quickly outpaced by TF.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

For tripping, the Greaves will get you a better DC than the Epic Boots of the Innocent. They are boots specifically meant for Trip DCs. If you use all three Tactics feats frequently, EBotI might still be better, but your Trip DCs will be worse. As for the lack of Speed 15, what would you say should be removed to add it?

-Steel

i think that there is no one who uses trip but not stunning blow. if i am wrong about this, and tons of people do use trip but not stunning blow, my mind will be blown. watch peoples videos, random peoples videos, play the game, look at what melee players are doing. tactical abilities is pretty much a playstyle choice that generally it seems is all or nothnig. so making boots specifically for trip doesnt benefit anyone i dont think.

i talked with a melee friend of mine, and he even uses stunning blow, which i think is uncommon. but he doesnt use trip. so yea, im not sure the "big time trip boots" thing is catering to, well, anyone.

concerning lack of speed 15:
1) why does something need to be dropped for it? every single effect on innocents is valuable/useful and iirc it has more effects than hooks anyway.
2) if its really a huge concern, dont take anything away and dont add speed 15. but its ridiculous for ml 28 BOOTS to not have 30% striding at least.

innocents:
gh skills - handy when combined with em gaze
11 resist - nice, duh
12 all tactics - very nice, because it doesnt screw any one of your dcs
speed 15 - nice, but not special, seems like a standard effect for high level boots
choice of slot color - blue slot is better than yellow for non casters by a mile

hooks:
12 str - nice, duh

12 trip - hmmmkay, but only because of the stun 15 goggles. id honestly prefer to have this be 12 all tactics, and then i just wouldnt use the goggles.

2 trip - not really necessary. trip is already easier to land most of the time, so if this is going to be here at all either make it for stun or all tactics, just trip is highly unncecessary, and yes with this effect the hook boots will get you a higher trip dc. heres the thing though, as ive already stated trip is generally not hard to land at all when you have halfway decent str and +trip and +all tac dc items on. additionally, you are sacrificing a lot to wear hooks for +1 enhancement bonus to str and +2 trip dc. if you cant land your trip dc with innocents, this +2 is not going to change things for you.

5 all tactics - ok, but i can get this elsewhere too. i guess its fine that its here because it gives more choice freedom. however, viewing this as a major contribution to trip dc over innocents is insanity and a mistake, because as ive said you can get this effect or even the +6 version elsewhere, and anyone who wants to use tactics a lot surely will have slotted it already.

lack of slot color choice - id rather have a blue slot over a yellow, big time

no striding, no speed - i still havent seen a reason why this isnt here. this kind of effect should be on nearly every boots slot item at this level, and especially for a melee. once again not having even striding screws anyone who doesnt have the abbot/mod quiver.


id also highly highly highly recommend making the yellow slot a blue. what am i supposed to put in a yellow after a deathblock aug? ff? water breathing? blindness immunity? +1 necro dc? gimme a break. ill put something that actually increases my survivability like +mdb, golems heart, good luck, false life, or natural armor even. or i could put in something to help with skills like -asf.

so upon reflection, they have an equal number of effects. if one absolutely must be dropped from hooks to add speed 15, kick +2 trip dc to the curb plz. easy decision.

also, i get that thematically you want these to be trip boots, but how are epic innocents thematically tactic boots? given that, i beg you to please please please just put +12 all dcs and +2 q trip -> speed 15. please. otherwise you are going to nuke my reflex save and elemental resists "because trip flavor".

[Xerio]

You can get speed on shadow dragonscale armor too, if you are not wearing heavy (which imo, epic DR is better) then it's a fairly solid option.

[DrawingGuy]

More importantly to me, and not mentioned yet, the enhanced ki should be dropped to +1. Currently ki-on-hit is a bit useless, since monks dont have anything useful to spend it on other than stunning fist and possibly QP (doubtful), and its very easy to regenerate enough without even a +1 on-hit item (or with a +1 item if you use QP a lot, for some quixotic reason).
However, I forsee a future where ki will actually be relevant again after monks get their enhancement pass, and at that point the existence of an item with +3 ki-on-hit wil be hugely unbalancing. TL;DR having +3 ki-on-hit doesn't actually give any benefit over +1 ki-on-hit in the current state of the game, but will likely make rebalancing monks down the line more difficult. The only toons who might actually benefit would be shuriken toons/AAs who drop into melee to whack things for 2 secs out of every 2 mins, which is neither here nor there.

I disagree with the Ki-on-hit only benefiting shuri/aa toons. My monk is not a STR monk that sits in LD and only uses Stunning Fist. I run GMoF, use finishers and debuffs, shintao moves, SF, and I do use QP a lot. Even with +2 regen from GMoF and +1 regen from Henshin, and 100+ concentration, and +1 ki on hit from Spider-Spun, I still have to be careful with my use. The +3 ki-on-hit was huge for me, and I had a blast with it. I'd be very sad to see that go.

I do agree with looking for new things to add to items and new combinations over straight stat climbs. Xoriat update was the most disappointing item release for me for DDO in recent years - here we have a story line that has some of the most unique and fun loot in the entire game, and instead of continuing that or even at least pulling from it, it was just same-ol-same-ol, but watered down for that level. Shav has their special PrE-based combos, and it would have been nice to see that taken to epic levels and fold in all the ones that have been added over the years. Though at this point it's likely far too late to make suggestions for something of that scale.

[IronClan]

how many updates untill DDO will be full jRPG? we will have hundreads of thousands HP, millions damage, mobs will have billions HP and we will handle swords three times bigger than us? the power creep turned to power sprint.
+12 ability items, +6 tomes in constant sale. I bet we will have some temporary offers of +7 tomes in next few months.
instead of making any new gear OP and old gear irrelevant and outdated, make new stuff with old effects but with new combinations. also some sets would be great. some old gear like for example VON stuff is asking for itself to be a set, some of those items have even almost the same names - kundarak delving googles/suit/boots.
when you have no ideas for new content, or just have no money/time for it, make new difficulty setting for old epic quests. call it whatever and make it's quest level the max level possible in given moment. add some items that would conver old epic item to new shiny version with a bit higher bonuses. just don't make drop rate like it was for sos shard for years.

This is how RPG's work if there's nothing better to get there's no reason to play more. it really is that simple. Power creep is a term made up by MMO players, in a development studio they use terms like progression and stagnation and progression is something to strive to achieve not a scary boggieman to be feared. it should have been obvious to anyone that +12 stat items would happen, along with every other higher affix where there's a clear progression that stopped around mid 20's expect all of them to eventually get newer end game values.

I will never understand why a subset of MMO players fear "powercreep" it's just math...

[IronClan]

I really like the Longsword... it's about time there was a Longsword worthy of looting in this game.

The Greataxe is now good stuff...

Thumbs up overall

[the_one_dwarfforged]

You can get speed on shadow dragonscale armor too, if you are not wearing heavy (which imo, epic DR is better) then it's a fairly solid option.

i use shadowstriker, and honestly hadnt even realized that it had 15% melee alacrity. theres still 2 problems with it though.

1) still dont have striding, meaning anyone not wasting a bracer or whatever slot on some non bis item still would need to get themselves a quiver if they didnt already have it.

2) if i was to do my same build as twf, id be using toee armor instead, meaning this would leave me in the same boat.

[Powerhungry]

Since the introduction of update 17 and the ghostbaning of vorpal (adding hp limit and putting it on any weapon type), give the longsword true vorpal.

Vorpal per 3.5 rules
This potent and feared ability allows the weapon to sever the heads of those it strikes. Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll to confirm the critical hit), the weapon severs the opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body. Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. Most other creatures, however, die when their heads are cut off. A vorpal weapon must be a slashing weapon.
and as per the original (pre ghostbaned vorpal) does not work on bosses (red/purple named). but most importantly - no hp limit. 1k hp limit on a 40k hp mob is silly (even 'sovereign' with a 3k limit is silly with the hp totals mobs now have).

[wiliamsane]

Mythic Bonuses are available on all of the loot in the Raid. There are two tiers of Mythic that can appear (+1/+2 and +3/+4, depending on the item), and Mythics in different slots always stack. Mythics cannot appear in the 20th List, and will be extremely hard to get (especially the higher tier) outside of Epic Elite. The bonuses may seem small, but stacking them in a variety of slots on Raid gear adds up. Not saying this is the be-all-end-all solution to the concerns about running at difficulty, it's just one piece of that puzzle.

-Steel

I dont know but i dont like this idea much ... Imagine a scenario where you already have lets say gloves and then pull another one with mythic upgrade (+1/+2 one) of course you will not give it up for roll to others . Same will happen when you luckyly pull better one (+3/+4) You will be really lucky person with 3 almost same items .. where 1 (2) could have been passed to other people. If the base non-mythic items will have similar chance to drop like 3 latest raids (Deathwyrm , Fire, and MoD) where you can barely see 1 item dropped for party in 30 or so chests openings -> then this idea is just terible. Make mythics in raids have only 1 mythic version (better one , it is raid after all) And give base items much much higher chance to drop than we are used to see ... People will still hunt 20th completions if they are after one or more particular item but please .. give some chance to drop it in raid too ... And while you are at it you can give a bump to drop chances in previously mentioned raids too ?

Also any word on raid completions preserving on iconic/heroic reicarnation ?

[RTFM]

I've never had a toon at lvl 28 that could not use a teleport scroll. In fact I can't even remember having a toon past lvl 16 or so that could not use a teleport scroll (and I am talking every single class in the game). The prime reason to put points into UMD is Raise Dead scrolls, the second reason is Teleport! Putting this on a lvl 28 item is a total waste.

I like the teleport clickie.

[RTFM]

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with you (and I think a lot of players I know would disagree with you).

Let's use your example MOD. If I want to kit out my toons with MOD gear, which I really did at least two of them, I was forced with a decision:

1. Forget it, because the drop rates are so incredibly low, and people just loot any gear that drops whether they need it or not, it would take 120-200 runs (total for two toons) to get the gear I wanted.. Even with raid timers, that is a LOT of runs of the same raid. It also costs a lot of plat or store points for all the timers. It is a grind.

2. Run the raid once every 3 days on each toon for the next year, eliminating the need for timers.

3. Run the raid in bursts of 5-20 back to back runs when you get a solid group that can "get it done" without problems on EN, spending oodles of plat, store points on timers (i actually went plat poor on ALL my toons buying timers for MOD on the AH months ago, which was kinda weird being plat poor again!). All I can say is....200 runs to get what I wanted, only actually pulled one item (litany, I already had it by then so put up for roll), and won rolls for two items over that entire 200 runs.

Now I chose #3, and so both my mains have most of what I wanted on them, but still NOT everything! But I'm pretty burned out on running MODS for the time being, hence my 3rd and 4th toons, have NO GEAR and won't be running it anytime soon.

Now you call this system above, too easy? Its a total grind, and only fun AFTER you have the gear. During the grind its a major bummer. It would be much more so having to do 1000 runs because no 20 end reward, or waiting 1 year of grinding every day because timers are no longer available.

So Cetus I don't agree, your approach is way too elitist and totally disenfranchises even the slightest "casual" hard core player! Devs, keep the system as it is, it is already a total pain I still have to run another 200 MODS to get two more toons geared, that's plenty difficult enough.

Heres the usual concern, a concern that I and others have been communicating each and every time a raid is released.

Will you make all of these items, which look like a job well done actually (this hasn't always been the case - so kudos) just a raid bypass zerg on normal away from being essentially a guarantee to anyone who desires them? Something needs to be done about the difficulty with which these can be acquired. Either through *GASP* tiered loot, neutering bypass timers, or introducing mythic versions only for EE. Or some happy combination of all three. I don't know.

Despite the amazing loot present within abbot, that quest has been sacked for 6 minute runs on normal until all of its rewards have been cheapened by the ease of their acquisition.

[nolifer1]

i like countendance kloak, whats the point of quality vertigo and trip? its completly usless on caster robe, not sinlgle meele wil be using it anway, make nice castre robe and replace verogo with insightful chrisma 4!

[Steve_Howe]

i like countendance kloak, whats the point of quality vertigo and trip? its completly usless on caster robe, not sinlgle meele wil be using it anway, make nice castre robe and replace verogo with insightful chrisma 4!

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-2#post5652243

[Shoemaker]

I disagree with the Ki-on-hit only benefiting shuri/aa toons. My monk is not a STR monk that sits in LD and only uses Stunning Fist. I run GMoF, use finishers and debuffs, shintao moves, SF, and I do use QP a lot. Even with +2 regen from GMoF and +1 regen from Henshin, and 100+ concentration, and +1 ki on hit from Spider-Spun, I still have to be careful with my use. The +3 ki-on-hit was huge for me, and I had a blast with it. I'd be very sad to see that go.I do agree with looking for new things to add to items and new combinations over straight stat climbs. Xoriat update was the most disappointing item release for me for DDO in recent years - here we have a story line that has some of the most unique and fun loot in the entire game, and instead of continuing that or even at least pulling from it, it was just same-ol-same-ol, but watered down for that level. Shav has their special PrE-based combos, and it would have been nice to see that taken to epic levels and fold in all the ones that have been added over the years. Though at this point it's likely far too late to make suggestions for something of that scale.

My only issue here is that I don't think that a +16 WIS item should also have ki regeneration. I'd much rather see a +1 or +2 stacking to damage bonus for melee build clerics.

[Steve_Howe]

My only issue here is that I don't think that a +16 WIS item should also have ki regeneration. I'd much rather see a +1 or +2 stacking to damage bonus for melee build clerics.

It's a Monk-centered item that just happens to also be useful for Clerics.

Leave the goggles alone please.

[Rusty_Can]

i like countendance kloak, whats the point of quality vertigo and trip? its completly usless on caster robe, not sinlgle meele wil be using it anway, make nice castre robe and replace verogo with insightful chrisma 4!

Bugged and acknowledged.

Ooh! Yeah, that's not supposed to be there. There's supposed to be a Green Augment Slot in its place.

[Shoemaker]

I've never had a toon at lvl 28 that could not use a teleport scroll. In fact I can't even remember having a toon past lvl 16 or so that could not use a teleport scroll (and I am talking every single class in the game). The prime reason to put points into UMD is Raise Dead scrolls, the second reason is Teleport! Putting this on a lvl 28 item is a total waste.

I likr the fact that the teleport clickie is 3 charges and since there's no svroll cases this little extra flavor on this item is nice.

[Cetus]

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with you (and I think a lot of players I know would disagree with you).

Let's use your example MOD. If I want to kit out my toons with MOD gear, which I really did at least two of them, I was forced with a decision:

1. Forget it, because the drop rates are so incredibly low, and people just loot any gear that drops whether they need it or not, it would take 120-200 runs (total for two toons) to get the gear I wanted.. Even with raid timers, that is a LOT of runs of the same raid. It also costs a lot of plat or store points for all the timers. It is a grind.

2. Run the raid once every 3 days on each toon for the next year, eliminating the need for timers.

3. Run the raid in bursts of 5-20 back to back runs when you get a solid group that can "get it done" without problems on EN, spending oodles of plat, store points on timers (i actually went plat poor on ALL my toons buying timers for MOD on the AH months ago, which was kinda weird being plat poor again!). All I can say is....200 runs to get what I wanted, only actually pulled one item (litany, I already had it by then so put up for roll), and won rolls for two items over that entire 200 runs.

Now I chose #3, and so both my mains have most of what I wanted on them, but still NOT everything! But I'm pretty burned out on running MODS for the time being, hence my 3rd and 4th toons, have NO GEAR and won't be running it anytime soon.

Now you call this system above, too easy? Its a total grind, and only fun AFTER you have the gear. During the grind its a major bummer. It would be much more so having to do 1000 runs because no 20 end reward, or waiting 1 year of grinding every day because timers are no longer available.

So Cetus I don't agree, your approach is way too elitist and totally disenfranchises even the slightest "casual" hard core player! Devs, keep the system as it is, it is already a total pain I still have to run another 200 MODS to get two more toons geared, that's plenty difficult enough.

Don't know what to tell ya, there's a whole world of players out there who got all their stuff by just sacking 20th end reward lists. Both of my mains are geared with pretty much what they wanted from MOD by doing exactly that.

Regardless, it is a simple fact that achieving 20 runs in MOD with a group capable of doing 6-8 minute runs would take...20*10 (say an extra 2 minutes here and there to talk to quest givers and eat timers) = 200 minutes. 3 hours and 20 minutes. Boom - guaranteed most powerful trinket in the game. Or Deific Diadem, or quiver, or whatever.

Over a span of a few weeks this can easily be done to ones satisfaction - especially since any one toon probably needs on average like 2-3 items from there as part of their permanent gear setup.

[Hara]

Cetus,

the reason that there is a whole world of players out there that have all the gear they need from MoD is that they had/have a big fat pile of Raid By PassTimers, I wonder where they got them from? Anniversary Cards perhaps?

I'm still struggling to work out what I think Turbine should do with regard to Raid By Pass Timers, part of me wants them gone forever, but with so few end game raids I'm worried that what raid LFMs are up on a nightly basis will vanish as less players are able to run them due to being on timer. Then again wont Raid By Pass Timers simply accelerate the end of MoD as a played raid, as suggested by your asertion that lots of players have all the gear they need from it.

Without By Pass Timers your 20 runs will take a lot longer to achieve, just like in the past before they were introduced. Many people ran raids and got nothing until their 20th run and people still ran the raids.

I think that perhaps the answer is to have a stable of end game raids that have loot of comparable power with the chance of dropping +6 and +7 tomes, or possibly +5 supremes ( I guess you'll tell me everyone already has these) mixed in with a number of end quests such as HH and ToEE. Then maybe we can get rid of Raid By Pass Timers, of course if they do I imagine there will be a whole outcry and rage quit threads on the forums.

[RTFM]

Again, I think there could be much better clickie. Dark Discorporation 2X per day sounds a heck of a lot more useful. Give us something that is NOT available with scrolls. At lvl 28 inventory space is also NOT an issue so I don't care if its 100 times per day clickie, I can have a stack of scrolls so the feature is a total waste.

I likr the fact that the teleport clickie is 3 charges and since there's no svroll cases this little extra flavor on this item is nice.