Returning Player trying to "fix" Paladin

[Himkano]

I have just come back from a long break. I have researched Paladins, and turned my evasion Pally into a Vanguard Pally in heavy armor. I played this vanguard Pally from level 25 to 26 this week. This character has always been my main (and has all my faction, so I can't TR him), and I like to use him to explore new content (usually because of family schedule I am soloing). I would like to be able to solo EE (while I am soling new content, I like getting cool gear), but have had some trouble, even on lvl 20-21 EE.

Maybe soloing alot of EE is not in the cards for this character, but I would appreciate any advice. This is not my current character build, but the build I am thinking of re-speccing to. To get perfect two-weapon fighting, I would need to get to primal, so I am thinking about buying an Otto Box (I currently of have unyielding sentinel completely unlocked), so if this is not a good build, please let me know so I don't waste the points.

This build is a combination of Unbonwah's Sacred Vanguard and Erkind the Basher. I took bastard swords because I have some pretty good ones, and therefore I did not think that I need cleave (I almost never use it anyway). I didn't take some of the threat powers, because I will probably be solo most of the time. I didn't take stunning blow (freeing another feat, because stunning shield is up often enough that I don't think i need two stuns to keep follow up going. I'm not sure about improved shield bash, since neither of the build I looked at use it, but I had so many buffs to shield bashes that I thought it might be worth it. I didn't quicken or empower feats, because my heals come from my recharging lay on hands, and sovereign host power, so I rarely use heals.

Any advice or comments are welcome.

Paladin Epic
Paladin 20
Lawful Good Human


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .+4. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+4. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 14. . . .+4. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 10. . . .+4. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . .+4. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . 14. . . .+4. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Heal. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Intim . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Balance . 1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
UMD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. .9
Concent . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .10. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5
. . . . .12. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5


Feats

.1. . . . : Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword
.1 Human. : Shield Mastery
.1 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.3. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
.6. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
.6 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
12. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
15. . . . : Improved Shield Mastery
18. . . . : Precision
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Improved Shield Bash
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Guardian Angel


Spells

1. Cure Light Wounds, Lesser Restoration, Bless, Divine Favor
2. Remove Paralysis, Resist Energy, Angelskin, Owl's Wisdom
3. Cure Moderate Wounds, Remove Curse, Remove Blindness, Prayer
4. Cure Serious Wounds, Holy Sword, Zeal, Restoration

Enhancements (80 AP)

Knight of the Chalice (13 AP)

• Slayer of Evil
  
  1. Extra Turning II, Extra Smite II
  2. Divine Might III
  3. Vigor of Life

Sacred Defender (26 AP)

• Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
  
  1. Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III, Sacred Armor Mastery III
  2. Bulwark Aura III, Sacred Shield Mastery III
  3. Hardy Defense III
  4. Reinforced Armor III, Tenacious Defense III

Vanguard (41 AP)

• To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II, Vicious Shield II, Shield Champion
  
  1. Shield Specialization, Unbalancing Shove III
  2. Shield Specialization, Stunning Shield III
  3. Shield Specialization, Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark, Shield Riposte III, Strength
  4. Shield Specialization, Armor Mastery III
  5. Shield to the Face, Disorienting Smash I, Shield Charge III, Armored Strength

Destiny (24 AP)

Unyielding Sentinel

1. Brace for Impact II, Shield Prowess III
2. Endless Smiting, Legendary Shield Mastery III
3. Endless Lay On Hands III
4. Spark of Life
5. Hardened III, Strength of Vitality III
6. Undying Vanguard

Twists of Fate (1 fate points)

1. Endless Turning (Tier 1 Crusader)

[Bloodskittle]

I have just come back from a long break. I have researched Paladins, and turned my evasion Pally into a Vanguard Pally in heavy armor. I played this vanguard Pally from level 25 to 26 this week. This character has always been my main (and has all my faction, so I can't TR him), and I like to use him to explore new content (usually because of family schedule I am soloing). I would like to be able to solo EE (while I am soling new content, I like getting cool gear), but have had some trouble, even on lvl 20-21 EE.

Maybe soloing alot of EE is not in the cards for this character, but I would appreciate any advice. This is not my current character build, but the build I am thinking of re-speccing to. To get perfect two-weapon fighting, I would need to get to primal, so I am thinking about buying an Otto Box (I currently of have unyielding sentinel completely unlocked), so if this is not a good build, please let me know so I don't waste the points.

This build is a combination of Unbonwah's Sacred Vanguard and Erkind the Basher. I took bastard swords because I have some pretty good ones, and therefore I did not think that I need cleave (I almost never use it anyway). I didn't take some of the threat powers, because I will probably be solo most of the time. I didn't take stunning blow (freeing another feat, because stunning shield is up often enough that I don't think i need two stuns to keep follow up going. I'm not sure about improved shield bash, since neither of the build I looked at use it, but I had so many buffs to shield bashes that I thought it might be worth it. I didn't quicken or empower feats, because my heals come from my recharging lay on hands, and sovereign host power, so I rarely use heals.

Any advice or comments are welcome.

Paladin Epic
Paladin 20
Lawful Good Human


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .+4. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+4. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 14. . . .+4. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 10. . . .+4. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . .+4. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . 14. . . .+4. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Heal. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Intim . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Balance . 1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
UMD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. .9
Concent . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .10. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5
. . . . .12. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5


Feats

.1. . . . : Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword
.1 Human. : Shield Mastery
.1 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.3. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
.6. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
.6 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
12. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
15. . . . : Improved Shield Mastery
18. . . . : Precision
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Improved Shield Bash
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Guardian Angel


Spells

1. Cure Light Wounds, Lesser Restoration, Bless, Divine Favor
2. Remove Paralysis, Resist Energy, Angelskin, Owl's Wisdom
3. Cure Moderate Wounds, Remove Curse, Remove Blindness, Prayer
4. Cure Serious Wounds, Holy Sword, Zeal, Restoration

Enhancements (80 AP)

Knight of the Chalice (13 AP)

• Slayer of Evil
  
  1. Extra Turning II, Extra Smite II
  2. Divine Might III
  3. Vigor of Life

Sacred Defender (26 AP)

• Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
  
  1. Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III, Sacred Armor Mastery III
  2. Bulwark Aura III, Sacred Shield Mastery III
  3. Hardy Defense III
  4. Reinforced Armor III, Tenacious Defense III

Vanguard (41 AP)

• To the Fore!, Shield Combat I, Vicious Shield I, Shield Combat II, Vicious Shield II, Shield Champion
  
  1. Shield Specialization, Unbalancing Shove III
  2. Shield Specialization, Stunning Shield III
  3. Shield Specialization, Follow Up III, Fatal Bulwark, Shield Riposte III, Strength
  4. Shield Specialization, Armor Mastery III
  5. Shield to the Face, Disorienting Smash I, Shield Charge III, Armored Strength

Destiny (24 AP)

Unyielding Sentinel

1. Brace for Impact II, Shield Prowess III
2. Endless Smiting, Legendary Shield Mastery III
3. Endless Lay On Hands III
4. Spark of Life
5. Hardened III, Strength of Vitality III
6. Undying Vanguard

Twists of Fate (1 fate points)

1. Endless Turning (Tier 1 Crusader)

The feat lay out is okay for a vanguard.
If you're having trouble doing EE's its likely ED based, Sentinel is just downright junk, there a couple nice things in there to twist; intolerant blows and legendary shield mastery, but over all the destiny is junk I would suggest jumping in Dreadnaught.

I should also point out that all vanguards aren't exactly optimum builds, if you're making a pally you're better off completely focusing your feats etc. to DPS, the survivability will work itself out on a pally.

[lyrecono]

you seem to be lacking the dps to take the mobs down fast enough.
next time, try switching shield feats for power attack and cleave, run in leg dreaghtnought.
A pally in platemail and def stance can get a strong defense as it is, switching to sword and board is a good option when things get really though.

Try grouping, seriously, it's an mmo

[unbongwah]

See my Sacred Vanguards thread.

[Himkano]

Thanks for the replies - sorry I haven't checked here a lot, but i wanted to thank those who took the time to respond. And thanks for the advice - I knew I was doing something wrong, but I couldn't figure out what (and I hate grinding epic destinies, because I feel so weak doing it. As to the grouping - when this game came out, I grouped all the time, but now there is rarely a group my level when I want to group, and I don't usually have more than an hour or two at a time, so its just easier to solo stuff most of the time.

[Bloodskittle]

Thanks for the replies - sorry I haven't checked here a lot, but i wanted to thank those who took the time to respond. And thanks for the advice - I knew I was doing something wrong, but I couldn't figure out what (and I hate grinding epic destinies, because I feel so weak doing it. As to the grouping - when this game came out, I grouped all the time, but now there is rarely a group my level when I want to group, and I don't usually have more than an hour or two at a time, so its just easier to solo stuff most of the time.

If you want to play a paladin may I suggest TRing and using this build https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...y-15-5-Pal-Rgr
Varieties of that build are the highest DPS you'll manage on a paladin imo. The survivability is all there, plus it gives you massively superior DPS and a nice ranged option which is very handy for all 3 of the end game raids that are currently available.

[Himkano]

Thank. I am wearing whisperchain, because I used to be evasion pally. I have kept wearing it because I figured that ethereal and blurry had to be better than random Plate (I know about flawless shadowplate, but that is a long ways away, if ever), but I could be wrong. Is the PRR from, say cormyr plate, better than etherial and blurry?

I know I can get blurry from greensteel - but the big greensteel push came and went while I was on one of my breaks, so I never got around to it, is it worth doing now?

Also, is the ranger build better than the pure paladin with capstone, in terms of surviving and killing?

[Chi_Ryu]

(and has all my faction, so I can't TR him)

FYI, most of the account-based favor unlocks persist after a TR (Arti, Drow, Harper, Vet I and II, 32pt builds), you only lose the per-character ones.

To keep things on topic, Erkid's build is pretty good for a pure Paladin Vanguard, I ran a few Epic Reincarnations using a very similar build.

[unbongwah]

I have kept wearing it because I figured that ethereal and blurry had to be better than random Plate (I know about flawless shadowplate, but that is a long ways away, if ever), but I could be wrong. Is the PRR from, say cormyr plate, better than etherial and blurry?

eRing of Shadows has historically been a popular choice, as it provides both concealment and incorporeality in one slot. The EE version is best, as it's the only DDO item with Lesser Displacement (25% concealment), but any of them is fine. Then if you're looking for a better DPS option in armors, I suggest either PD armor set or Restored Giantcraft Plate to start, upgraded to either flawless black or shadowscale armor later.

Also, is the ranger build better than the pure paladin with capstone, in terms of surviving and killing?

Pal 15 / rgr 5 gets a big boost to its AoE melee DPS from Dance of Death; it also gains Manyshot for a good ranged burst DPS option. The pure paladin should have better survivability (bigger LoHs, can slot CSW & DW in addition to Zeal & HS) and it may have higher single-target DPS from KotC capstone. I also think the pure pally has an easier time with heroic leveling, since you get your pally bonuses ASAP that way.

[Himkano]

FYI, most of the account-based favor unlocks persist after a TR (Arti, Drow, Harper, Vet I and II, 32pt builds), you only lose the per-character ones.

Thanks, I didn't realize this.

[Himkano]

Knowing I won't lose my account faction, I think I'll go ahead a true rez (for the first time ever in DDO). I have tried alot of different Pally builds including mostly unbogwah's Vangaurd and Erkind's Basher. I prefer melee to straight spell caster, I don't have awesome named gear - whisperchain, the 2 named bastard swords from the raid boxes (ITW?), and a sword of shadows (not upgraded, still need a shard), and I have +4 tome for all stats, I'll have 34 point build, and I'll have 1 paladin past life. For destinies, I have Sentinel and Knight of Flowers maxed, a little one of the other divines (at work so can't check name, but the one with endless turn undead)

I know this might take us a little outside Paladins, but since it started here... given all of that, and the fact that my preferred play style is some brand of self healing melee (or bow / xbow - basically anything not helpless once the mana is gone) what do you guys think would be the best / most fun build that is good in groups and solo ee? (I know that answers will vary, I'm just looking for ideas. I feel reasonably sure that I am not going to go for completionist on this character, so that does not need to be a consideration)

Thanks

[Himkano]

See my Sacred Vanguards thread.

I used your thread as the basis of the one I posted in the OP - I didn't take shield charge and shield rush (well, I did and then dropped one), because they seemed the same, and I never used them anyway (I always seem to miss, and then have to turn around), and I swapped out aggro grabbing stuff, because I already get all the agro when I am alone. In your thread though, I couldn't see what ED you used.

I didn't take PA, because the other thread said if you can't take PA and precision, take precision?

I didn't take cleave because either you or Erkind said that cleave made you lose dps, so i figured that the splash damage was better anyway (and one less feat and one less button, and no loss of DPS). Did I make a mistake? Are these feats critical to the build?

[unbongwah]

I didn't take PA, because the other thread said if you can't take PA and precision, take precision?

You can take both feats, but you can't have both stances active simultaneously; and since feats are at a premium on a pure pally, it usually makes sense to only take one. For LD or FotW, I usually go with PA; for other EDs, it depends on what I expect to be fighting most whether +5 dmg or -25% Fortification is more useful. If your primary concern is boss DPS, I'd probably take Precision, because they usually have some Fortification.

I didn't take cleave because either you or Erkind said that cleave made you lose dps, so i figured that the splash damage was better anyway (and one less feat and one less button, and no loss of DPS). Did I make a mistake? Are these feats critical to the build?

Cleave atks are a hit to single-target DPS in exchange for AoE DPS instead. As a paladin, the two Cleave atks in KotC are more powerful than the Cleave feats; but if you're playing a Vanguard, you can't take both T5s and I usually go for Vanguard's T5. So my human VG only takes Exalted Cleave, so I've only got 1 Cleave instead of the usual 2; I'm relying on glancing blows to help boost my DPS vs trash mobs, since those apply to adjacent targets on regular atks. Erkid's build takes CL+GC and uses khopeshes instead; he's relying on the extra crit dmg vs b.sword (or d.axe) to make up the difference of no glancing blows.

[Himkano]

Hmm, the secret to soloing EE in Divine Crusader MIGHT be realizing that Aura of Purification is something that you actually have to turn on....