Highest PRR monk can get?

[pelaaja]

Out of curiosity, what would be the highest PRR Monk would be able to get which wouldn't gimp the build too much?

I was thinking of 12 monk/5 warlock/3 paladin but do others have different ideas?

[AbyssalMage]

Would have to define what "too much" is?

Honestly, 8/6/6 would work just as well using your class split. It would actually be more powerful than your suggested split simply because all of the power in Monk occurs either through purchasable feats and Tier 5 enhancements.

8 Monk - You really are only losing out on Abundant Step. Not a "make or break" ability. None of the Core 12, or above, in any of the other enhancements are "Make or Break" either. Nice to have but players have learned to do without.

6 Warlock - Not sure another level gives you too much, but that is mostly because of their newness.

6 Paladin - This is considerably stronger than 3. Opens up level 6 cores, allows you to go deeper in Paladin Enhancement Tree's, mostly Sacred Defender, for lots of nice goodies.

After careful consideration,
9 monk, 6 Warlock, 5 Paladin may actually be the best Min/max split, using your parameters (this after thinking about the 8/6/6 I originally suggested). The extra Monk level gives you Improved Evasion over just 8 levels Monk while going from 6 Paladin to 5 Paladin doesn't effect the build adversely.

Simply put, there is no reason to take more than 9 levels of Monk unless going pure. Come to think of it, Monk really needs a pass (like every other class who hasn't gotten one).

[Blackheartox]

I got 200 ish on the split in my sig when i run in my defense oriented setup /twisting prr for cexpertise and spending actual ap for shintao prr. /but since i am in current setup for temple tomes farm i droped it for more bursty dps.

Can be higher, but getting more hits dps to much, so i droped it to around 170ish for my needs its enough coupled with 30% dodge sh fade and godly saves.
There are some splits that can reach a higher number tho, but those would be purely defense builds.
I like how i got 170+ ac on this as well heh-
If i was to reset ap and counting all prr stuff in game, would reach boosted 308 prr as centerd monk.

But for what reason?

[pelaaja]

Would have to define what "too much" is?

Honestly, 8/6/6 would work just as well using your class split. It would actually be more powerful than your suggested split simply because all of the power in Monk occurs either through purchasable feats and Tier 5 enhancements.

8 Monk - You really are only losing out on Abundant Step. Not a "make or break" ability. None of the Core 12, or above, in any of the other enhancements are "Make or Break" either. Nice to have but players have learned to do without.

6 Warlock - Not sure another level gives you too much, but that is mostly because of their newness.

6 Paladin - This is considerably stronger than 3. Opens up level 6 cores, allows you to go deeper in Paladin Enhancement Tree's, mostly Sacred Defender, for lots of nice goodies.

After careful consideration,
9 monk, 6 Warlock, 5 Paladin may actually be the best Min/max split, using your parameters (this after thinking about the 8/6/6 I originally suggested). The extra Monk level gives you Improved Evasion over just 8 levels Monk while going from 6 Paladin to 5 Paladin doesn't effect the build adversely.

Simply put, there is no reason to take more than 9 levels of Monk unless going pure. Come to think of it, Monk really needs a pass (like every other class who hasn't gotten one).

Well, "too much" would be something like "oh lemme grab 2 levels of wizard just for the Improved Shield SLA" or something.

Hmm 8/6/6 sounds nice. 6 warlock would give the ES pulse go a second earlier plus Dark Delirium (since Fey must be picked as pact) as well as giving a chance to get sweet KotC cores. It also would give a chance to play around with enhancements, picking either T5 Shintao, ES or KotC.

However I think your suggested 9/6/5 would work betterif you took a level off of warlock, not paladin. I think Improved Evasion is better than one second earlier pulse, even with a build with very high saves.

However, something popped into my mind which might bring troubles; Epic feats. You'll miss out on Improved Martial Arts and Vorpal Strikes if you don't go 12 monk. So it's a think if the lvl 6 cores are worth it.

I got 200 ish on the split in my sig when i run in my defense oriented setup /twisting prr for cexpertise and spending actual ap for shintao prr.
Can be higher, but getting more hits dps to much, so i droped it to around 170ish for my needs its enough coupled with 30% dodge sh fade and godly saves.
There are some splits that can reach a higher number tho, but those would be purely defense builds.
I like how i got 170+ ac on this as well heh

What was your T5 enhancement, if I may ask?

[Blackheartox]

What was your T5 enhancement, if I may ask?

Atm its kotc, if i was to swap to a defense build it would be in defender. (thats for the 300 + prr setup)
It might work out, but i like saving 3 feats via kotc and getting passive 5 melle power which is huge dps increase.

[pelaaja]

Atm its kotc, if i was to swap to a defense build it would be in defender. (thats for the 300 + prr setup)
It might work out, but i like saving 3 feats via kotc and getting passive 5 melle power which is huge dps increase.

I assume it's much better than Shintao's T5?

[Blackheartox]

I assume it's much better than Shintao's T5?

I had a 12 4 4 split first where i took t5 shintao.
But it costed me 3 feats to get cleave line.
Now i have those 3 feats free, get better w cleaves from palie, exalted smite melle power upgrade, passive 5 melle power from t5 kotc, completionist, imp martial arts and monk past life.
Having 5 crit range for x2 only that you can rely on only during swarm quests is way lower dps wise imo

[pelaaja]

I had a 12 4 4 split first where i took t5 shintao.
But it costed me 3 feats to get cleave line.
Now i have those 3 feats free, get better w cleaves from palie, exalted smite melle power upgrade, passive 5 melle power from t5 kotc, completionist, imp martial arts and monk past life.
Having 5 crit range for x2 only that you can rely on only during swarm quests is way lower dps wise imo

Nah I was thinking the extra damage for unarmed. Changing the die from 1d6 to 1d8 seems to be really good when you get high +W things. the crit range is just a bonus to it I'd say

[Blackheartox]

Nah I was thinking the extra damage for unarmed. Changing the die from 1d6 to 1d8 seems to be really good when you get high +W things. the crit range is just a bonus to it I'd say

If only the dice 6 to 8 increase worked in tree form i would agree with you

[pelaaja]

If only the dice 6 to 8 increase worked in tree form i would agree with you

Wait it's bugged?!

Well buggers... Guess I should really consider TRing my very old Emerald build soon...

[Blackheartox]

It works when you are in normal human form, but not in tree.
Is main reason why i wasted 2-3 k tp just by doing tests (now if i was smart enough to wait for lama heh, would be a different story)

[moo_cow]

Out of curiosity, what would be the highest PRR Monk would be able to get which wouldn't gimp the build too much?

I was thinking of 12 monk/5 warlock/3 paladin but do others have different ideas?

To be honest aiming for a very high prr does gimp you. Those warlock levels give almost nothing to a monk. The pally bonuses can give you prr which can be nice coupled with the saves. Don't try and max you prr though.

[Blackheartox]

To be honest aiming for a very high prr does gimp you. Those warlock levels give almost nothing to a monk. The pally bonuses can give you prr which can be nice coupled with the saves. Don't try and max you prr though.

I did a temple pt 2 solo with full scaling /friend enterd bots, as he thought we would farm pyramid only heh.
More then 170 that i had would be overkill tbh and entirely not needed so far in any content i played /and to test build we did almost whole content on ee in game (he wanted 5k and helped him a bit)
You are almost immortal imo if you combine monk/palie

[DrawingGuy]

If you define highest PRR a monk can get, its 205:

36 PRR from Past lives
15 Grandmaster earth
15 Shintao enhancements
10 meditation of war
30 sheltering item (insightful items don't stack with Meditation)
4 mythic ToEE armor
15 Antipode + Prowess
15 GMOF earth (twist)
20 improved combat expertise (twist)
15 sigil of spell warding (twist - though this is getting corny)
30 Master's Blitz or Unyielding Sentinel + Unbreakable stance
-----------
205 PRR

U27 will add some new items that will push that a little higher, but you're obviously gimping yourself if you're pushing for these kind of numbers.

Now if you're looking to snag non-Monk PRR, your best option is Pally (25 sacred + 25 harbored) + Wiz (which can give up to 20 PRR) or Warlock (which can give up to 19 PRR, though the MRR and DPS options strongly favor this one).

So taking that into account and giving up 1 PRR as Warlock is the better splash for unarmed builds:

36 PRR from Past lives
15 Grandmaster earth
15 Shintao enhancements
25 Sacred defender (10 + 15)
25 Harbored by Light
6 Resilience of Body
13 Spiritual Bastion
30 sheltering item
5 insightful sheltering item
4 mythic ToEE armor
15 Antipode + Prowess
15 GMOF earth (twist)
20 improved combat expertise (twist)
15 sigil of spell warding (twist - though this is getting corny)
30 Master's Blitz or Unyielding Sentinel + Unbreakable stance
-----------
269 PRR

Just pick up what you want from that list.


Though if the question is what the max PRR an unarmored player can get, it only takes 2 monk levels (a fact I find frustrating as all monk survivability takes a bare splash to get) it's 45 PRR (Meditation of War is junk due to it's penalties and is exclusive from Fighter/Pally stances - items cover that bonus anyways). The thing is you just slap a tower shield on someone, and they too can get 45 PRR (15 base + 15 imp mastery + 15 legendary). So a max unarmored PRR build would not even touch Monk....

[AbyssalMage]

However I think your suggested 9/6/5 would work betterif you took a level off of warlock, not paladin. I think Improved Evasion is better than one second earlier pulse, even with a build with very high saves.

However, something popped into my mind which might bring troubles; Epic feats. You'll miss out on Improved Martial Arts and Vorpal Strikes if you don't go 12 monk. So it's a think if the lvl 6 cores are worth it.

Short Swords...
Thunder Forge T3 + ToEE for main set
ToEE + CitW for Raid bosses

Think the number crunchers* showed that the difference between Handwraps and Weapons was 8% while in Windstance, worse in the other 3.

*Actually the guy/gal on forums who has been advocating for Monk for awhile now is the one who crunched the numbers, if memory serves correctly.

[Blackheartox]

Well here is breakdown on my prr slightly higher in prr mode.
36 plifes
12 master stance
15 shintao
15 twist for stance
20 twist for combat expertise
15 sigil
30 item
5 insightful mark ring /i use this for vitality

10 shield from wiz
25 palie stance
15 act boost
25 tier 5 palie
(could take pdk for 10 more when under 50% hp)
15 from ephemeral
50 from tree form
4 mythic armor


But as said, totally not necessary for any content to do this setup, tho it is 302 prr.
I prolly missed couple things here and there as well

[DrawingGuy]

I didn't count temporary boosts in my numbers. If you want to consider those:

30 PRR action boost from Dwarf Stand like Stone or 15 from Pally + 10 from PDK (which I find the 10 from PDK a non-counter)
15 Ephermeral twist (though in practice this will be more around 3)
10 PRR store pot
50 Tree instead of 30 Blitz. Tree is a different build entirely and is not perma-maintainable. Though if built right, it's one of the exploitative OP builds out there along with things like Winter Wolf with NWF + SWF + TWF.

@AbyssalMage - I'm curious as to when these number crunches were done and against what classes. Do you have a link? I'm a huge fan of Unarmed Monk - my main is one - but the DPS is no where close to that of any of the classes that have received a pass. The base damage is competitive - better than some, worse than others - but once you factor crit profiles, special moves (including cleave accesses), attacking tactics (strafing, twitches, rotations), etc, unarmed just falls away. I'm hoping Unarmed can become the best base damage with the same **** crit profiles, and access to moves (or existing moves) are improved. We'll see, though sadly Monk has a while to wait on their pass.

[AbyssalMage]

@AbyssalMage - I'm curious as to when these number crunches were done and against what classes. Do you have a link? I'm a huge fan of Unarmed Monk - my main is one - but the DPS is no where close to that of any of the classes that have received a pass. The base damage is competitive - better than some, worse than others - but once you factor crit profiles, special moves (including cleave accesses), attacking tactics (strafing, twitches, rotations), etc, unarmed just falls away. I'm hoping Unarmed can become the best base damage with the same **** crit profiles, and access to moves (or existing moves) are improved. We'll see, though sadly Monk has a while to wait on their pass.

I suck at Google. I couldn't even find the initial post on "number of attacks" that the whole thing was predicated on. I do know that the numbers were crunched using TF weapons (as they were the best possible at the time).

As far as against what classes...
It was more generic than comparative. Pretty simple honestly (and I feel bad for not remembering who posted this first):
Monk*:
1- miss
2 to 14 - 1 damage**
15 to 17 - 2 damage
18 to 19 - 3 damage
20 - 4 damage

Bard (as the pass happened with them already)
1 - miss
2 to 10 - 1 damage
11 to 14 - 2 damage
15 to 17 - 3 damage
18 to 19 - 4 damage
20 - 5 damage

*I actually may have crit multipliers wrong for both classes. I think SB Bard starts at 3, not 2, but I am too tired to look.
**was the crit multiplier for the roll
So then all you had to do was input the weapon avg. damage, it's W[x], seeker, number of swing in one minute, and any other misc. mods (Basically what everyone does). Basically its the easiest format ,for me, to follow. So easy to do with any update as long as they,Turbine, doesn't switch to some convoluted formula like PRR or Weapon Repair.