Developers, can we talk about the Binding status of items?

[Wizza]

Why, at some point in DDO history, we changed from Unbound or even BtCoE items to BtA items in quests?

Trading has always been a big, big part of every MMORPG. Trading is fundamental to interact with other people, to give a feeling of purpose to questing other than fun or farming for our own items. Trading and selling is that carrot that many endplayers have always wanted and it's not something that I'm making up. We have few historical examples:

EE GH was absolutely fantastic. Items were rare enough and everything was BtCoE. I remember tons of players farming ToR, PoP to sell their items and get some Astral shards or trade them for their wanted items.
EE Stormhorns was amazing as well. People still farm it, after all this time. Same goes for Haunted Halls.

ToEE, for some reason, has some items Unbound and some BtA. I still have not understood what is happening in that quest.

What made you change your mind and make everything BtA? We want to farm items and trade items. Why are you preventing us from doing that? Why can't we have BtCoE items anymore? Once we get our own items, a pack is dead for many players. Look at Necro 4. Noone runs the quests anymore, unless a friend needs an item. The only thing that is run is the Raid. Same goes for 3BC, a pack reduced to XP farm during eTRs.

Speak to us Devs. Let us know. I don't want to do these quests once and done. I WANT to play this game but I want to have a reason to play. Why would I do a quest when it offers me nothing, after I got my item? XP is zero, since I'm capped. Fun factor is always there, I still run HH once in a while because the quest is fun but what makes me run HH even more is the fact that I may or may not loot something and sell it (unless it's the Purple Dragon Shield).

I don't even care about tiered loot at this point, that is obviously not coming back.

Why have you killed trading and selling?

[Vellrad]

People whined that they want bta, because, as they said, trading ee loot makes you evil capitalistic swine that exploits unskilled noobs who can't complete ee, because u will demand ridiculous amount of astral shards, you filthy greedy pigs!*, so devs listened.
I personally like trading stuffs I don't wanna for stufs I wanna or moneyz, so I can save up for stuff I wanna, and, even if I get everything I want from questpack, I still have reason to farm it, so I can sell it, unlike BtA junk that after getting I don't need to run that quest again (unles I wanna favor).
Of course, some ppl want bta, because they don't care for anything other that ******** farming xp, discarding xp, repeat until world explodes, because that means they need to stop at hated lvl cap, where they dont get precious disposable stacking points only for a while before they can go back to true/heroic/iconic retardation... I mean reincarnation.
*Not exact quote, but I swear, that's spirit behind many people's thoughts on tradable loot (and its quite close in wording anyway).

[Wizza]

People whined that they want bta, because, as they said, trading ee loot makes you evil capitalistic swine that exploits unskilled noobs who can't complete ee, because u will demand ridiculous amount of astral shards, you filthy greedy pigs!*, so devs listened.
I personally like trading stuffs I don't wanna for stufs I wanna or moneyz, so I can save up for stuff I wanna, and, even if I get everything I want from questpack, I still have reason to farm it, so I can sell it, unlike BtA junk that after getting I don't need to run that quest again (unles I wanna favor).
Of course, some ppl want bta, because they don't care for anything other that ******** farming xp, discarding xp, repeat until world explodes, because that means they need to stop at hated lvl cap, where they dont get precious disposable stacking points only for a while before they can go back to true/heroic/iconic retardation... I mean reincarnation.
*Not exact quote, but I swear, that's spirit behind many people's thoughts on tradable loot (and its quite close in wording anyway).

Okay, I can even get the "trading ee loot makes you an elitist jerk" complain. Let's say I can get behind it, even tho I really don't. Harder difficulties = better rewards, simple logic and rules of every game. Whatever.

But now there isn't tiered loot anymore. There isn't that Epic Elite only loot that only Elitists can get, everything is the same tier. So why keep them BtA? Haunted halls did this pretty good and it worked. The good stuff was selling for good money, it was tradeable, people were *gulp* interacting with other people. Let's go back to that please.

[legendkilleroll]

I dont really use the astral shard AH but can see how some people who like that sort of thing dont have much to sell anymore

Saying that, i dont like how people not capable of running EE, could just buy EE loot, EE should have some exclusive BTC/BTA stuff imo

Pugs could be trouble tho, as if your looking for specific loot, unless its a friend/guildie or just a generous person, most are just going to take the item to sell

[Wh070aa]

As a pack rat, I like BTA or unbound items. I can store them on other characters, instead of trying to fit them in my overfilled bank.

Also the grind is bad enough for a one item if you don't have good luck. 20+ runs for stuff kinda kills it for me.

Market/trading is dead as hell, since everything worthwhile is BTC. Also for the "you must earn your EE loot" crowd, you guys are reson why there is only one build anyone is running all the time. I want to have loot on my flavor build. I don't want to TR to FOTM build, farm **** for 60+runs, then TR back to my flavor build, and only then play what I want.

The loot system does not feel good. I should not be tossing named loot into garbage bins, because I can't use it on the character playing it.

[stoerm]

Perhaps it's their way of saying thanks?

[General_Gronker]

Perhaps it's their way of saying thanks?

Except that the binding was going on before that, so your point isn't.

We continue to use a variety of binding in different situations, and sometimes the same situation, and expect that to continue in the future.

Loot binding is pretty simple, and you guys should be able to handle this:

Is it RAID loot?

YES - bound to character on acquire.
NO - unbound. Period.

Anything else is simply bad design.

[laurawilder]

What they should do is make more things bound to character and rare. That is what made quests played more in the past. Back when the bloodstone was rare people ran the desert, and the shroud was ran often to make unique stronger weapons.

Now that common loot is better than most named items at level or within two levels and nothing is unique and can be sold people farm certain quests and challenges and use a stone to raise their character to wear their shiny things.

More things bound and less things to be sold are what is better for the game and its economy. The should have only items drop that are rare in quests btcoE and the rest of random loot be +1 and up. If the want items with complex sufix and prefix they should need to be crafted. That would make crafting more useful and make it worthwhile. It would create an economy for those with ability to create and sell and create rolls in a guild for characters that took the time to raise crafting levels.

Plus the more rare the loot the more people will need to run and rerun those quests and raids. Not just the first month, flood the market with items and whine for more new end game quests.

[Lonnbeimnech]

What they should do is make more things bound to character and rare. That is what made quests played more in the past. Back when the bloodstone was rare people ran the desert, and the shroud was ran often to make unique stronger weapons.

Now that common loot is better than most named items at level or within two levels and nothing is unique and can be sold people farm certain quests and challenges and use a stone to raise their character to wear their shiny things.

More things bound and less things to be sold are what is better for the game and its economy. The should have only items drop that are rare in quests btcoE and the rest of random loot be +1 and up. If the want items with complex sufix and prefix they should need to be crafted. That would make crafting more useful and make it worthwhile. It would create an economy for those with ability to create and sell and create rolls in a guild for characters that took the time to raise crafting levels.

Plus the more rare the loot the more people will need to run and rerun those quests and raids. Not just the first month, flood the market with items and whine for more new end game quests.

But I soloed it TWICE on normal and didn't get (insert item name here)! This game is too much of a grindfest, I'm going back to candy crush!

[PentegarnDarras]

... It would create an economy for those with ability to create and sell and create rolls in a guild...

THIS is what we need.
Airship bakeries!

[laurawilder]

Why, at some point in DDO history, we changed from Unbound or even BtCoE items to BtA items in quests?

Trading has always been a big, big part of every MMORPG. Trading is fundamental to interact with other people, to give a feeling of purpose to questing other than fun or farming for our own items. Trading and selling is that carrot that many endplayers have always wanted and it's not something that I'm making up. We have few historical examples:

EE GH was absolutely fantastic. Items were rare enough and everything was BtCoE. I remember tons of players farming ToR, PoP to sell their items and get some Astral shards or trade them for their wanted items.
EE Stormhorns was amazing as well. People still farm it, after all this time. Same goes for Haunted Halls.

ToEE, for some reason, has some items Unbound and some BtA. I still have not understood what is happening in that quest.

What made you change your mind and make everything BtA? We want to farm items and trade items. Why are you preventing us from doing that? Why can't we have BtCoE items anymore? Once we get our own items, a pack is dead for many players. Look at Necro 4. Noone runs the quests anymore, unless a friend needs an item. The only thing that is run is the Raid. Same goes for 3BC, a pack reduced to XP farm during eTRs.

Speak to us Devs. Let us know. I don't want to do these quests once and done. I WANT to play this game but I want to have a reason to play. Why would I do a quest when it offers me nothing, after I got my item? XP is zero, since I'm capped. Fun factor is always there, I still run HH once in a while because the quest is fun but what makes me run HH even more is the fact that I may or may not loot something and sell it (unless it's the Purple Dragon Shield).

I don't even care about tiered loot at this point, that is obviously not coming back.

Why have you killed trading and selling?

So just that I understand your point of view. making all(more) items unbound and allowing more trading and selling will create more traffic in quests? Was not the best system pretty much ever in the game the shroud and green steel item creation. But was that not tied in with flagging and many items and ingredients bound to account? Did not that end game work for years and always stay active? How have recent endgame cycles gone?

I think if you look back at the history of the game and what has succeeded and kept interest and made quests ran often it was the opposite of what you seek to change. The easier items are made to farm and sell the less people will run quests. All that will accomplish is satisfy the short attention span folks that hop games and spend less time and money in ddo.

Endgame interest is not about buying and selling. I mean seriously after you have one character reach level 20 and have over a say 1 million plat you will never go broke. What value does the AH bring to the game? It brings convenience and an easy button plus it allows items to be sold to people that may not have those packs purchased.

Making things unbound and easier to acquiring does not benefit quest traffic or Turbine in any fashion to be honest.

[slarden]

I really like bound to account loot because it's easy to move around and people have to earn their own loot.

With that said, probably a mix of having some things bound and some things unbound is ideal for people that like to selling/buying. I still hope most loot is bound to account even if they add some unbound items.

[Spekdah_NZ]

I really like bound to account loot because it's easy to move around and people have to earn their own loot.

With that said, probably a mix of having some things bound and some things unbound is ideal for people that like to selling/buying. I still hope most loot is bound to account even if they add some unbound items.

I'm another one in this camp. When playing rounds of necro 4, I could pick up loot for both my char and the odd time something for an alt. Otherwise I could give stuff to other peeps in the pug when I could not use it, which was alot. Compared to say GH, didn't matter what dropped, for years playing GH I still rarely see loot gifted away in pugs, those helms still net some good shards.

To me BtA is nostalgia to some old school MMO's play styles where you never looted what you couldn't use .... before some kind of auction house ruined it (looking at you EQ1).

Does it have to be set in stone? I am liking the variety even if unbound (Haunted Halls) isn't so recent.

[Wizza]

I really like bound to account loot because it's easy to move around and people have to earn their own loot.

With that said, probably a mix of having some things bound and some things unbound is ideal for people that like to selling/buying. I still hope most loot is bound to account even if they add some unbound items.

But what is in fact happening is that content is dying right after people have "earned" their loot. So why not make content last longer by making it either unbound, BtAoE or BtCoE? GH, SH, HH are still being run from time to time for their awesome loot system.

Loot is one of the most important factor when it comes to longevity of content. It is important for everyone, capped and uncapped players, vet and non vet. Trading is a huge part for Veterans, it gives them something to do. Playing the Auction House game is fun for many veterans, or just trading with other players to get the best stuff. People might sell their Otto's boxes for 3-4 Epic items like we used to do, people might sell Turbine points for Epic items.

The previous poster talks about nostalgia. Well, I've a bad news for you: nostalgia does not keep content alive. And content not alive means less people playing.

I honestly see a win for everyone with making stuff unbound, BtAoE or BtCoE.

[JOTMON]

Some of the binding makes no sense..

Raid items.. sure BTCoA its a raid item that should notably be the best of the best named items in the game for the level it represents.
Upgraded crafted items.. makes sense to bind as you tier up power of named items..

Quest items.. BTA/BTCoE/BTAoE.. in many cases is heavy handed.. many items coming out of quests shouldn't be bound at all.. only the more powerful/upgradeable items should carry these tags..

Chain end rewards.. BTCoA.. why is it that Quest items are BTA, unbound when the chain is fully bound and not tiered for difficulty.. chain drops normal version and is BTC.. why?
This makes no sense to me whatsoever.. if anything the chain version should have lesser restrictions than the quest version.. you have to run 4 quests at a chance of getting a item from the reward list.. not farm 1 chest in a quest.

Fix end reward list givers for running chains.. don't give us some BS of how its not possible.. you are doing it in saga's already with a point system and sagas recognize difficulties and reward list is based on it.
Unbind chain rewards or change them to the on equip binding.. whatever tier is less than the quest farm version... makes no sense to me that farming 1 quest gives a better reward than farming the whole chain.
Add named items to chain end reward list.. after a while it gets annoying to see 3 +3 BTC search tomes on the same list.. I am in a level 200 guild.. we already farmed the hell out of guild renown.. everything on the saga list is btc.
Expand the list and give us some unbound choices that we can trade or sell.. unbind all the tomes on the saga chain reward list. I would even be happy to see the guild renown stones unbound.. there would be a market for those.

On of the other things I hate seeing is "exclusive".. not every clicky item needs to be exclusive.. seriously...
Yes its nice to have clickies and more than one.. they take inventory space which means the more things we have the more space we will need and we will adjust, farm favor, buy more space...
Raid items should not be exclusive.. its already a grind to get them.
if we craft/build/upgrade something it shouldn't be exclusive.. Devs screwed us on Ornamental daggers with retroactive exclusive.. Kobolds still hate you for this..

and of course there are the flasks.. I was excited when I heard they wer ecoming.. great something for non-UMD users with stacks of unlimited vendor scrolls......
They came out and I farmed and crafted two of them only to discover...BTC and long shared timers.... one of the stupidest thing I have seen in this game.. two pots on the same toon.. ahhhhhrrrgrrrrr...
It was a grind getting them and an ever longer grind making them..clickity.f.click...10,000 times...
remove shared timers. give each flask its own cooldown timer.. If I want to build/carry 10 flasks and cycle drink them then let me.. its 10 inventory slots.. or the equivalent space of 1,000 scrolls...

We want "re-playability" of content.. not "one and done".

[Vargouille]

There's more to discuss here, but one short thing worth nothing: From our point of view, looking globally, being able to trade loot doesn't result in increased running of quests. For every piece of loot you trade to someone else, that just means you ran the quest more, and someone else ran the quest less (whoever got the loot from you). That's not to say trading is always and inherently undesirable, nor is it inherently desirable.

In summary, "I'll run this quest more if I can trade the loot!" isn't inherently compelling as a reason to make more of the loot in DDO unbound or bind on equip. We do realize this affects different players differently (sellers vs. buyers).

We continue to use a variety of binding in different situations, and sometimes the same situation, and expect that to continue in the future. Occasionally some players believe a single update indicates a new method has been chosen, Now and Forever. This is explicitly not the case for loot binding.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I still think the AH was the worst thing to happen to the game...

[Braegan]

I still think the AH was the worst thing to happen to the game...

Trading doesn't always have anything to do with the AH, just saying.

[JOTMON]

I still think the AH was the worst thing to happen to the game...

AH was fine.. the ASAH well.. that's a different story....

[kned225]

We want to farm items and trade. I don't want to do these quests once and done. I WANT to play this game but I want to have a reason to play. Why would I do a quest when it offers me nothing, after I got my item? XP is zero, since I'm capped

If endgamers are only playing in order to acquire, sell and profit, there's a whole big world out there waiting for them where they'll give you REAL MONEY to do this