U27 Loot thread (unofficial)

[patang01]

We tried to do that with the end reward list items in Wheloon and the Storm Horns; those items had one affix that was much higher than other versions of that affix at-level.

Players pretty universally claimed to hate them while continuing use them as the standard of balance for all future loot (i.e. "I can get STR +8 at level 15, it should be +8 on ALL ML15 items").

We're not likely to do that again anytime soon.

People didn't like it because it was autogranted on completion of quest and it was way over most named loot at the same level, making named loot people had looked for through grind, trade or luck worthless. Kinda like how random deadly of accuracy items destroyed the value of named loot with deadly (such as the visors out of EPOP

[Qhualor]

People didn't like it because it was autogranted on completion of quest and it was way over most named loot at the same level, making named loot people had looked for through grind, trade or luck worthless. Kinda like how random deadly of accuracy items destroyed the value of named loot with deadly (such as the visors out of EPOP

Yeah, I remember this as the biggest complaint. I also remember complaints of the tiered loot where the elite version was obviously better, but was 2 levels higher than the normal version.

[Requiro]

(...)

I don't see you guys polling or doing surveys so you guys appear to be using VERY subjective non empirical data. Sev did exactly the same thing recently when he said that players like collecting BB streak numbers, even though this system has become harmful to the game... Is the number of people who love collecting steak numbers large enough to keep a system that is harmful to grouping behavour? I didn't see a survey there either.

This is a very good statement.

I always wonder, why surveys are not made BEFORE they bring to Lamannia any crazy or ruining game idea...
Like the Devs know EXACLY what players want/thinking WITHOUT asking them... Telepaths? ;-)

[Drwaz99]

This is a very good statement.

I always wonder, why surveys are not made BEFORE they bring to Lamannia any crazy or ruining game idea...
Like the Devs know EXACLY what players want/thinking WITHOUT asking them... Telepaths? ;-)

It comes down to inventing "data" that fits what they want it to fit. We have no way to disprove it. It's been going on in this game for years.

[moo_cow]

Greater reinforced fists, hmm does it stack with regular?
I can see uses for this if yes, since its screaming treebuilds /:
Not really for regular monks tbh

Actually thunderforged would still have a higher base damage. So even for tree builds it wouldn't be better. Unless I am mistaken.

[fangblackhawk]

We tried to do that with the end reward list items in Wheloon and the Storm Horns; those items had one affix that was much higher than other versions of that affix at-level.

Players pretty universally claimed to hate them while continuing use them as the standard of balance for all future loot (i.e. "I can get STR +8 at level 15, it should be +8 on ALL ML15 items").

We're not likely to do that again anytime soon.

i for one think that is was bout dang time there was some even if it be uber rare (woot you made it static actually) stat item between 9 (master crafted cannith) and level 20 items, aside from rare +1 stacking of some stats (heroism in any other slot would of been sweet SWEET lol you cant win them all) but other wise i find these to be great items for my tr's cuz i can toss them... ( it is tough call for my mellee caster builds to trade or not trade the Epic ring of Elemental Essence out for the sages ring at 27)

still though a more evenely scaled stat item system would be nice for you to all look into at some point.... yes the +6 at lvl 9 is alot of work to attain but is there, and is nice ..... other wise loot gen has +6 at lvl 11 then nothing till level 20 (maybe there are "wondrous" items i am not seeing ( i have a wondrous ml 9 +6 wisdom hat some where) but then a good bit of 7 and 8s between 20-25 on named items.... and some 8/9s on said loot gen + 10 on wondrous items at 28 and +11 at @26 on named items...with the odd stacking items insight/exceptional/profane/alchemical/"quality"....... it would be nice to seem more options available in the later half of heroics even at least a few raid items with +7 (stat) of "-________" effect(s) gear and solid this is where its at with stats at epic levels some where ish


edit.... maybe instead of making new ones ..... take the Old shard/seal/scroll items and istead of adding new effects just lower there mlto be relevent to other items of there ilk..... example is the mask of tragedy made epic from the carnival and the dark storm helm heroic version from the web of chaos chain or and would require you to of been there at least once for the seal and shard of item....

[Blackheartox]

Actually thunderforged would still have a higher base damage. So even for tree builds it wouldn't be better. Unless I am mistaken.

Cant say without testing.
THing is your base damage in tree is dependent on monk level ws and gear/feat ws, and enchantment base of weapon.
So if the new gear grants 3 w, that transfers over to base of 70 + dice to tree hmm.

WIll look into it, havent gotten pair of temple wraps yet to cant really figure out full max dps output, but il compare temple vs new wraps at some point

[maddong]

Cant say without testing.
THing is your base damage in tree is dependent on monk level ws and gear/feat ws, and enchantment base of weapon.
So if the new gear grants 3 w, that transfers over to base of 70 + dice to tree hmm.

WIll look into it, havent gotten pair of temple wraps yet to cant really figure out full max dps output, but il compare temple vs new wraps at some point

I thought you had to use a shortsword or other ki weapon in tree form to retain the d20s. Otherwise with handwraps you get more dice but they are d6s.

[Angelic-council]

People didn't like it because it was autogranted on completion of quest and it was way over most named loot at the same level, making named loot people had looked for through grind, trade or luck worthless. Kinda like how random deadly of accuracy items destroyed the value of named loot with deadly (such as the visors out of EPOP

Epic necro 4 for example.. I also don't like how we get the best gear so easily. Yes, it's useful and we have a no choice, but to use them as a replacement. But honestly, best gear shouldn't be given away simply like that.

[Postumus]

I don't see you guys polling or doing surveys so you guys appear to be using VERY subjective non empirical data.

I'm pretty sure that's what the player council is there for. They bounce ideas off of them and go from there.

Sev did exactly the same thing recently when he said that players like collecting BB streak numbers, even though this system has become harmful to the game... Is the number of people who love collecting steak numbers large enough to keep a system that is harmful to grouping behavour? I didn't see a survey there either.

The BB system has not become harmful to the game. Please stop spreading myths perpetrated by a few people in the forums who dislike BB, and, frankly, don't have any evidence to support it beyond wishful thinking. Turbine doesn't need to survey you, or anyone, to pull data from their own servers. There is no point in surveying players when they can see log in numbers and who runs what most frequently.

[legendkilleroll]

Epic necro 4 for example.. I also don't like how we get the best gear so easily. Yes, it's useful and we have a no choice, but to use them as a replacement. But honestly, best gear shouldn't be given away simply like that.

Agreed, said this before, yeh sometimes that one piece may take a little longer but apart from mythics the named necro gear is thrown at you.

Thats why when ToEE had low drop rates, people were like "*** why dont i have my item yet" because they were so used to being given everything like necro and 3bc

[Blackheartox]

I thought you had to use a shortsword or other ki weapon in tree form to retain the d20s. Otherwise with handwraps you get more dice but they are d6s.

Nah the dice is 20 with wraps for sure + w increase from monk stuff.
I got with thforged now 27.3 d20 in first tree form

[SirValentine]

We tried to do that with the end reward list items in Wheloon and the Storm Horns; those items had one affix that was much higher than other versions of that affix at-level.

Players pretty universally claimed to hate them while continuing use them as the standard of balance for all future loot (i.e. "I can get STR +8 at level 15, it should be +8 on ALL ML15 items").

You phrase that as if the hating and using are somehow opposed.

Personally, I hated the decision to introduce such items precisely BECAUSE it thus set the standard of balance so much higher, at such a low level. It completely invalidated the balance of tons of other items. (E.g., compare to grind-for-months shard/seal/scroll items that have only a +7 at level 20.)

But once Turbine put them in the game anyway, why wouldn't I use them and compare other items to them?

We're not likely to do that again anytime soon.

Good to hear. Learning from mistakes is awesome!

[davmuzl]

As we said back when those items were new, Deathblock reducing the amount of damage (and subsequently, healing) you get from Negative Energy is working as intended.

Someone also said at some point that this would be looked into.
If this is an effect to actually make it less effective for PMs in undead form that's fine. But it would be nice to have good alternative items.

At this point the epic belt of thoughtful remembrance is one of the best belts one can get. PMs basically can't use it and others might want to use another item in the slot. There should really be some good con items other than this one belt.
Charisma also has very few +11 items.

One of the biggest problems DC based wizards have right now is that the items they are looking for are very hard to get.
The epic deific diadem and the epic litany are the best items in their slots without a question and wizards can still use some of the other items in that raid.
They are also looking for intricate field optics with insightful int +3 because those are the only insightful int +3 item that fits in a max DC gear layout.

I haven't seen the raid loot yet, but there should really be some alternatives for all the items I mentioned.

[Chai]

The BB system has not become harmful to the game. Please stop spreading myths perpetrated by a few people in the forums who dislike BB, and, frankly, don't have any evidence to support it beyond wishful thinking. Turbine doesn't need to survey you, or anyone, to pull data from their own servers. There is no point in surveying players when they can see log in numbers and who runs what most frequently.

Theres quite a bit of evidence that goes well beyond "a few people" on the forums which shows mandate levels of support for changing the system so the difficulty settings are balanced rather than the toughest being the default xp difficulty. All one needs to do is read through the xp changes threads and note the positive feedback from far more than "a few people on the forums" to see this. Its a step in the right direction to not punitively penalize people for running a quest or two on a non elite difficulty.

[Steelstar]

New thread for the new build is here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...70#post5652170

Let's move the discussion over there to keep information up to date!

[Chai]

You phrase that as if the hating and using are somehow opposed.

Personally, I hated the decision to introduce such items precisely BECAUSE it thus set the standard of balance so much higher, at such a low level. It completely invalidated the balance of tons of other items. (E.g., compare to grind-for-months shard/seal/scroll items that have only a +7 at level 20.)

But once Turbine put them in the game anyway, why wouldn't I use them and compare other items to them?

This.

Another example is going from +5/+5 to-hit + damage (EE dream visor) to being able to buy a +10/10 item (trash loot deadly of accuracy) off the broker in one update invalidated the EE dream visor which were trading for high value. People who made that purchase were peeved because they plugged money into the game to buy the item only to have its effectiveness swept away a few short weeks later. It isn't so much that players don't like progress in gear, but many would have still used that item if it was a very close second best in slot item - if the new update would have put in a (+6/+6 item for instance) and it was equally rare named item to get - but instead it began raining +6-10 trash loot items (many of them same slot).

When those hit the game of course people were going to provide negative feedback. But since it became the new standard, that's what players equipped their characters with - while putting their dream visor they traded high value items for into their bank.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

wondering what the reasons for leaving +12 stun and speed 15 off the boots are.

i get that +12 stun maybe doesnt fit thematically, but comparing just the hooks to innocents, innocents are better.

its also wildly confusing to me that the boots dont have at least 30% *striding*, forgetting about speed 15. its ok that they dont for some people, since they can just go back to quiver of alacrity, but this might screw someone else.

and for the alacrity part, is this to potentially make haste a spell worth a raid stacking up for because we wont be seeing speed on items in the future? i could get behind that, if thats the case. or is it because there is going to be an anchoring effect in the new raid and so it wont matter anyway? if there is going to be a need for anchoring and its not a raid environmental effect or a temporary raid buff or whatever, and its going to come on say, boots, why bother leaving striding/speed off of these boots?

[Postumus]

Theres quite a bit of evidence that goes well beyond "a few people" on the forums which shows mandate levels of support for changing the system so the difficulty settings are balanced rather than the toughest being the default xp difficulty.

I'm not going on a fishing expedition through necro posts to disprove your claim. You, and others, made this claim, post your evidence.


But I know you don't have it or it would have been posted already.

[Ape_Man]

The BB system has not become harmful to the game.

While I agree with you, how do you know? It's not like either side has data to back their claim.