Upcoming Experience Changes

[Postumus]

From the number of people in this thread alone who want BB gone and switched to a 1st run bonus, you are outnumbered about 25/2. ..

Eliminating BB for a 1st time bonus changes nothing. It's semantics. Players interested in max xp will always run quests in a way to get maximum xp. That means they'll still run elite for the higher first time bonus. How is that an improvement?

[Maelphistez]

Not sure if Devs are still reading this thread or if they've gotten bored with the back and forth... but just in case they are still reading and possibly willing to make adjustments:

Devs, please consider tying these changes into a change with dungeon scaling as has been suggested elsewhere in this thread. In short, modify the scaling according to the following guide:

Casual: 1x Scale. Scaled for 1 player, no matter how many enter the quest.
Normal: 3x Scale. Scaled for 3 players, no matter how many enter the quest.
Hard: 5x Scale, normal level of Champions. Scaled for 5 players, no matter how many enter quest.
Elite: 6x Scale, 2x Champion appearance. Scaled for 6 players, no matter how many enter quest with 2x the chance for spawns to be champs.
Reaper: 6x Scale, 10x Champion appearance. Scaled for 6 players, no matter how many enter quest with 10x the chance for spawns to be champs.

[FranOhmsford]

Eliminating BB for a 1st time bonus changes nothing. It's semantics. Players interested in max xp will always run quests in a way to get maximum xp. That means they'll still run elite for the higher first time bonus. How is that an improvement?

Well if nothing else it does streamline the bonus and removes the need to explain BB over and over again!

[Postumus]

Well if nothing else it does streamline the bonus and removes the need to explain BB over and over again!

True enough.

And there are a number of vocal posters who don't like BB, but I think a lot more players will be LIVID if they suddenly take a huge xp hit because BB was eliminated. If BB is eliminated by the first time bonuses increased to compensate, players will still run E/H/N, in that order, unless the first time playthrough bonus is also eliminated (which would also result in a lot of unhappy campers).

[Silverleafeon]

Wish List for Suppression Sam

• Be stationed within 2 loading screens of any adventuring location or the like, in addition to the airship and hall of heroes locations.
  
  
• Be able to request suppression of either Elite plus Hard bravery streak or just Elite bravery streak. This ability does not have any timers on it.
  
  
• Places visible buffs on your toon that says "Hard bravery suppressed" and "Elite bravery suppressed"
  
  
• Can tell you this toon's current Hard and Elite Bravery streaks.
  
  
• Wears a fancy hat like a mad hatter type.
  
  
• Has the ability to erase your entire favor flagging for your toon back to zero, restoring all bravery and first time bonuses. This ability has a once a month timer on it.
  
  
• Is a dragon in elf form, preferably a Gold dragon.
  
  
• Increase the range of heroic level limits for powerleveling by +1, also discuss other heroic level limits such as bravery being increased by +1 the way epics were increased by +2
  
  
• Etc...

[Faltout]

From the number of people in this thread alone who want BB gone and switched to a 1st run bonus, you are outnumbered about 25/2. (I count a grand total of 2 people who specifically stated they "like" having the high number.. my count could be off, but by all means count yourself).

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unfortunately, this is true. I know some players that are actually proud of their high number and refuse to lose that high number no matter what, even though any number above 5 has 0 benefit.

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Yes, Sev is correct on this. Many people I know in game (including myself) like the bravery bonus number.

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I count 8 (not Qhualor) plus 2 references to people in game (3 refs including mine). Even if they don't specifically say they like their count number, agreeing to keep the count for bragging rights is still the same point.

[Xionanx]

If a number only you can see is that important to you.. why not bust out a piece of notebook paper and keep track of it manually?

It is still a POOR reason not to implement a better system.

Quality of Life > Bragging Number ---- ever day of the week.

[FranOhmsford]

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I count 8 (not Qhualor) plus 2 references to people in game (3 refs including mine). Even if they don't specifically say they like their count number, agreeing to keep the count for bragging rights is still the same point.

Even in a thread with multiple posts by the same people - 8/365 posts is pretty low!

[Postumus]

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I count 8 (not Qhualor) plus 2 references to people in game (3 refs including mine). Even if they don't specifically say they like their count number, agreeing to keep the count for bragging rights is still the same point.

Add me as another one AGAINST eliminating BB. Now it's suddenly 25-8. And I doubt the "25" for since a lot of folks have requested a modification of BB rather than complete removal, but I'm not going back through this thread to count them.


I can't believe it, but Ironclan probably has the best idea in this thread for modifying BB.

[Postumus]

Even in a thread with multiple posts by the same people - 8/365 posts is pretty low!

There are not 365 posts against. Come on Fran!

[JOTMON]

True enough.

And there are a number of vocal posters who don't like BB, but I think a lot more players will be LIVID if they suddenly take a huge xp hit because BB was eliminated. If BB is eliminated by the first time bonuses increased to compensate, players will still run E/H/N, in that order, unless the first time playthrough bonus is also eliminated (which would also result in a lot of unhappy campers).

Some perhaps.. but I see a lot of people who refuse to jump into pug runs of quests because it is Normal/Hard because they haven't run Elite yet and dont want to lose their streak.
BB is great for static groups and Guilds.. generally sucky for pugs and newer players.
Personally seeing BB go would not bother me at all, I would rather run a couple EH/EN Von5's than hold out waiting to fill the empty EE one..

[FranOhmsford]

There are not 365 posts against. Come on Fran!

8/365 = 8 posts out of 365 in the thread!

Now considering pretty much everyone who's come out against has multiple posts and only a few of those who've come out for have multiple posts it skews the numbers quite a bit!

Actually this is now the 372nd post in the thread!

Add me as another one AGAINST eliminating BB. Now it's suddenly 25-8. And I doubt the "25" for since a lot of folks have requested a modification of BB rather than complete removal, but I'm not going back through this thread to count them.

You can't be serious?

Out of a 372 post thread you're thinking less than 25 have posted for?

I'd say that number is more likely to be over a hundred!

[Maelphistez]

Honestly, the Bravery Streak means nothing to me outside of the XP bonus. If the XP bonus were just all rolled into a First Time on Elite bonus without any more streaking... I'd be all for it. Elite Streaking stops people from joining N/H runs the way it is working right now. It may not stop everyone, but I know it has stopped me in the past and it has stopped others from joining my groups. That's all I need to know to support any change that pauses or eliminates streaking.

[Hafeal]

From the number of people in the thread that said they like their high streak count right now (including me), and from in-game experience when people mention their streak count, I don't know why you would doubt that Sev's statement is true.

I doubt it because it is not based on any fact process that would actually provide definitive polling on the subject. Forum posters are a small, not necessarily representative, sample size of the player base. Asking where the devs derived there data for "A lot of players" is a fair question, imo.

If you wish to speculate that you believe there is much support for BB, great. I speculate players would care less about BB if it is replaced with a better alternative. I agree with Ironclan, BB was bad from Day 1. There was a clear lack of vision and understanding on how the BB would divide the player base and be a complete turn-off for new and casual players. Why play an MMO when you can't find groups?

And there are a number of vocal posters who don't like BB, but I think a lot more players will be LIVID if they suddenly take a huge xp hit because BB was eliminated. If BB is eliminated by the first time bonuses increased to compensate, players will still run E/H/N, in that order, unless the first time playthrough bonus is also eliminated (which would also result in a lot of unhappy campers).

I think it is wholly dependent on how they replace the BB bonus. One thing is for sure - BB makes players happy/unhappy now and any change will have the same impact. IMO, the question becomes, what is best to grow the player base for the game and be attractive for new players?

[Qhualor]

since some people are caught up on the "fors" and "against" of BB in a thread that has nothing to do with it, just some peoples opinions on a better fix, I will give my opinion too. I could care less if BB stays or goes. im more concerned with the negatives the streak brings. there is no benefit beyond 5, but some like the high number for bragging rights. ok, whatever. maybe they should be posting this in the Achievements section than. I want to see improvements to grouping and players running difficulties that are more suitable for them to run without feeling they must run elite for the best benefit and because its the default setting, even if they really shouldn't be running elite. if players are running lower difficulties because it is a more comfortable difficulty for them and it improves grouping options, than maybe there will be less entitlement issues and maybe the devs can implement challenge back into elite. im willing to try this pausing your BB if these issues will be fixed or made better. I hope it does and would like to see a more healthy game environment pleasing all play styles.

[dunklezhan]

Sev, Where has't thou gone?

The thread has descended to counting 'votes' and arguing over the metrics by which one should do that. If he's got any sense he's gone to the pub

[Faltout]

I doubt it because it is not based on any fact process that would actually provide definitive polling on the subject. Forum posters are a small, not necessarily representative, sample size of the player base. Asking where the devs derived there data for "A lot of players" is a fair question, imo.

Maybe by playing the game or reading the forums once in a while...
Also, "A lot of players" does not mean "Most of the players". The devs have been leaving flavor abilities in enhancement tree just because "someone" might use them. When it comes to streak count, it's obvious that it's not only "someone", it's "A lot of people". And 8 people out of 100 people is actually a lot of people.

There are many issues that need a serious poll (like what classes are OP, does the loot need more power, are heroics compromised, are champions fun, do you want a new difficulty, do you like the new quests, etc.) but whether or not people like streak count is not that important and evidence that some people like it is already more than needed.

[Frotz]

If someone dying would cost them experience then they have incentive to keep them alive

Sometimes the only way to keep them from dying is to decline their join request.

That's supposed to be a wry joke, but it could be true. If there were any penalties for dying you could even be doing them a favor, assuming you couldn't knock them over the head at the entrance.

[Faltout]

If a number only you can see is that important to you.. why not bust out a piece of notebook paper and keep track of it manually?

It is still a POOR reason not to implement a better system.

Quality of Life > Bragging Number ---- ever day of the week.

From 2 pages behind:

And this mechanism will make the streak count useless for bragging purposes. So, why don't you keep streak count as is (without the option to suspend it) and increase the xp for hard and elite the first time in a quest?

Players that like their streak count can still have a meaningful count and players that like xp can avoid trips to an NPC.

With this in mind, I don't understand why keeping streak count as is contradicts with Quality of Life. The way I see it, the dev proposal is more clunky than the proposal of those 8 people I quoted.

Btw, there are so many numbers only you can see in the game. Like STR score and yet someone has made a thread with max STR score. How about solo runs? I'm sure noone has posted anything about solo runs because only they could see the completion. You're sounding like you can't just take a screenshot of your streak count and display it...

[Hafeal]

And 8 people out of 100 people is actually a lot of people.

No, it is not.

Even in Family Feud.