Upcoming Experience Changes

[Uska]

yeah but under the old system people got mad if you died and it still happens. this time it doesn't matter. let me say it this way. those same people with the changes or not will still not help your fellow party mates. whenever i saw a lfm that said don't die. it will have meant exactly that. now under the new xp those lfms should disappear because it wont effect the party leader anymore. they might still see it as a pain, but then they become the jerk for just leaving you there. so no matter what its on the people who play to change themselves not turbine.


people would need to change in general to be more helpful towards others instead of being a jerk. nothing turbine can do to change that ever. this is where personalities clash and the play styles happen. we might see a little more grouping sure. but the flowersniffing and zerging will collide like it does now.

This change will mean people will help group members less although some may group a little more there is no encouragment to help them since it wont matter if they die where as before people needed to help make sure the whole group survived if they wanted to keep the bonus.

[Silverleafeon]

I will be much less likely to buff or heal any more

Tell me, if Fawn used her Jibber's Blade, killed the end boss of a raid, then cast your toon rez scroll before expiring a necrotic death, would you bother to "waste" a raise dead scroll so she could loot her raid chest?

Hmmm?


And yes folks Fawn has Jibbered for the win before in a raid.


Never mind, most raids has Rez shrines appearing, maybe for that reason after then ending.
Something to keep in mind for the future Devs.

[Postumus]

Like these!


Hmmm. Am not as thrilled with these concepts. The cut between Heroic and Epic bonuses already excludes a lot of folks one way or another on those weekends. This is just going to add another divisive aspect to the bonus rotation.

(Posted in reply to just the OP. Haven't read the rest of the thread yet.)

Well these

~ We are working on an additional DDO bonus days event that will award a percentage bonus on completion XP for each additional person in your dungeon group. This will not affect raids.

~ We are working on an additional DDO bonus days event that will award a percentage bonus on completion XP for each additional person in your raid group. This will not affect dungeons.

Are what six or seven posters in this forum have been asking for, but as I said in other threads, I honestly think this will encourage more multi-boxing than grouping. But if the metric of success is sheer number of accounts logging in, then multi-boxing will also boost this metric and maybe Turbine doesn't care if whether six different people sign on, or if just six different accounts sign on?

[arkonas]

What are you talking about? What incentive is being taken away?

The quests haven't changed. The difficulty hasn't changed.

What will change? You will hopefully see MORE lfms and you will see more players in groups.

How does this in any way affect how YOU interact with fellow players with regard to buffing? Seriously? You won't buff or plan now because you won't care if someone dies over the -10%? You mean to say that was the ONLY reason you buffed before? Geez.

i think this will effect the people who do help others because they're friendlier and they have that rule of no one left behind. the only people who wont be effected are those that cared if you died. now they might let you in but ignore you. that is more of a personal behavior thing then anything else.

Could be too little, too late.

The reality is that they lose nothing by trying.

maybe. reason i say this is look at some of the other games that people said would have died but haven't like ultima online and everquest. they keep adapting and adding new changes to keep the game alive. it could end like Heroes. lol we all know cryptic.

[Hafeal]

teamwork incentive you were encouraged to help you group members or loose the bonus this change is dumb

You shouldn't need a 'bonus' to be a good teammate.

You shouldn't need an 'incentive' to buff and heal.

Being in a group attempting to achieve a goal has the inherent responsibility that you will do what you need to do for the group.

I strongly disagree with your assessment that the change is 'dumb' and I certainly find nothing in your logic that supports keeping the status quo - in fact - if anything, it strengthens my view of how needed this change is.

[Lonnbeimnech]

So this 'suppression', is it going to be

1. talk to the guy and the next quest has no BB
2. talk to the guy and for the next hour there is no BB
3. or is it a toggle, BB is suppressed until you return to him and turn it back on?

[Postumus]

Tell me, if Fawn used her Jibber's Blade, killed the end boss of a raid, then cast your toon rez scroll before expiring a necrotic death, would you bother to "waste" a raise dead scroll so she could loot her raid chest?

Hmmm?

Well I would. I think most people would. That's why I think Uska may be re-thinking his previous post. Personally, I have met far fewer selfish players in DDO than helpful, team-oriented players.

[Qhualor]

That has been far from my experience.

Power creep has made the game easily soloable; especially in Heroic levels. The added penalty players received of losing xp 'carrying' other players has contributed to less teamwork and more soloing.

While this change is not the silver bullet of solving the "lfm problem", it is a move in that direction and a pro-active step to take away a disincentive to post an lfm. Add in the BB suppression, I am hopeful this will lead to a sea change in taking us back toward a more social, group friendly game, as opposed to the isolated, lonely, solo mode it had morphed into - particularly for new and casual players.

if you are expecting to see anything more than a slight increase in lfm/grouping activity over these changes or see an increase in team play, than im sorry to say in my opinion you will be wrong. I am marking my words on this and I don't do this hardly ever unless I feel very strongly about something, but I do hope you are right and I am wrong. I seriously want to be wrong on this, but I see daily how DDO is played and the attitude overall players have. this is a huge benefit for the zergers, casuals and those that have always looked at losing the miniscule Flawless Bonus as a penalty. you are right that this is not the silver bullet and the devs have said the proper way to address the actual problem is too big of a project, but what this is is band aid fix.

[arkonas]

This change will mean people will help group members less although some may group a little more there is no encouragment to help them since it wont matter if they die where as before people needed to help make sure the whole group survived if they wanted to keep the bonus.

at the same point though those people never cared about xp either i met as i played. the real players die and do help each other. no matter what its a player issue. i've only played on argo and i've noticed a lot of players and styles. most people didn't care if you died or loss the xp. most would help you or come back for you etc. i always tried to save someone if i could. even under this new change i still will because its who i am. this change won't change who i am on the inside. i still will be a helpful player. the only type i will never help are the rude player who make the game just not fun to play with.

the ones who don't listen, rude in general etc.

[arkonas]

You shouldn't need a 'bonus' to be a good teammate.

You shouldn't need an 'incentive' to buff and heal.

Being in a group attempting to achieve a goal has the inherent responsibility that you will do what you need to do for the group.

I strongly disagree with your assessment that the change is 'dumb' and I certainly find nothing in your logic that supports keeping the status quo - in fact - if anything, it strengthens my view of how needed this change is.

this statement is so true. its about who you are as a player not the quest mechanic.

[FranOhmsford]

Did you read my post? There's a reason why this almost never happens, and its not an entirely rational reason. People feel they are losing their investment in guild B. Make a formal merger mechanism with some small renown transfer and you'll overcome some of that inertia. Rational Economic man doesn't play DDO much.

I will never leave my own Guild for someone else's because what happens if that someone else decides to boot me out of their Guild a week, a month or even a year later?

That's the reason I created my own Guild in the first place - So I have CONTROL!



Now a true Guild Merger system would allow for an extra guild rank - Founder - Which cannot be booted without a GM's say so.

[Postumus]

This change will mean people will help group members less although some may group a little more there is no encouragment to help them since it wont matter if they die where as before people needed to help make sure the whole group survived if they wanted to keep the bonus.

No it doesn't. I don't think you give DDO players much credit by making that statement. Most of us are not selfish, self-centered misanthropes only looking out for our own benefit. We play with other people because we enjoy it. Helping your team succeed is part of that enjoyment.


The people who sweat the 10% bonus or don't like helping other players already sequester themselves and play solo or in small, tightly knit groups; which is why I don't think this change will encourage more LFMs because those people don't like grouping in the first place.

[Hoglum]

You shouldn't need a 'bonus' to be a good teammate.

You shouldn't need an 'incentive' to buff and heal.

...and you shouldn't need an 'incentive' or a 'bonus' to group if that's how you like to play.

[blerkington]

Hi,

It's too early to say what all the consequences will be, but right now these seem like good changes to me. Anything that reduces fragmentation of the community and encourages vets to run with newer people is a good thing, I think.

I don't buy the argument that the change to flawless will reduce teamwork. In those rare groups where people were being nasty about lost xp from deaths, the villains of the piece generally didn't seem to be doing much to prevent the deaths anyway.

Certainly a much better direction to take than creating additional difficulties which encourage different parts of the community to become even more isolated from each other.

If some unintended consequence does emerge which makes these changes seem like a mistake, then the changes can be reverted.

Thanks.

[Krell]

Based on player feedback we are implementing some experience changes.

~ The Flawless bonus to experience now only counts your character's deaths instead of the entire party. This means if you invite someone less familiar with the content to your group and they die you won't lose your XP bonus unless you also die.

~ Henchman deaths no longer reduce the flawless XP penalty.

~ There is now an NPC in the Hall of Heroes that will suppress your Bravery Streak and associated bonuses. While suppressed you can go off and do content on lower difficulties without ruining your streak. This allows you to group with friends, or join pick up groups, or even do new content on lower difficulty settings without ruining your bravery streak. Note that while suppressed bravery streaks are not ended, but you don't get associated bravery bonuses.

We also have some special events coming up to reward grouping.

~ We are working on an additional DDO bonus days event that will award a percentage bonus on completion XP for each additional person in your dungeon group. This will not affect raids.

~ We are working on an additional DDO bonus days event that will award a percentage bonus on completion XP for each additional person in your raid group. This will not affect dungeons.

Sev~

Nice changes.

1. What is the thought behind limiting the group bonuses to an event instead of full time?

2. Looking at methods to encourage grouping, any thought to having remnants drop in all epic quests regardless of player level (i.e. no 4 level restriction)?

3. Any progress on fixing the grouping panel without having to populate Who first?

[Silverleafeon]

Well I would. I think most people would. That's why I think Uska may be re-thinking his previous post. Personally, I have met far fewer selfish players in DDO than helpful, team-oriented players.

True, someone just suprised me by mailing Fawn a raid timer as a TY for leading raids on Wednesday.


I like the idea of expanding Bonus Events, it makes for variety. Hopefully it will happen often enough to make a difference.

[cdbd3rd]

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now a real option would be change the channel for chatting. its crappy that the system is based on areas when we all know there is very few people in certain areas. it would be better if it was a global chat. such as level based 1-10 1-20 20+ etc.

When LOTRO did this, suddenly the childish immature chat we affectionately called "Bree chat" went global. It was abominable.

If there is to be a 'global' chat channel, hopefully keep it separate from the current localized chats so we only have to disable one channel to avoid the PvP rabble & such.

[Silverleafeon]

1. What is the thought behind limiting the group bonuses to an event instead of full time?

That was the only thing that puzzled me, but I figured maybe its BIGger bonus instead of a little bonus?

[Silverleafeon]

.



When LOTRO did this, suddenly the childish immature chat we affectionately called "Bree chat" went global. It was abominable.

If there is to be a 'global' chat channel, hopefully keep it separate from the current localized chats so we only have to disable one channel to avoid the PvP rabble & such.

First thing I do on a new noniconic toon is turn off General Chat so I don't have to hear the harbor rabble...

[Algreg]

There is now zero insentive to do teamwork with non-guildies I will be much less likely to buff or heal any more and it will be the same across the board.

Behold, the champion of teamwork speaking...