Upcoming Experience Changes

[Silverleafeon]

Not sure if people can see it clearly, it we could suppress a quest counting for first time that save bravery for later on, and REALLY helps grouping a lot?

[Silverleafeon]

Not sure if players can see this but:


Elite and Hard Bravery streaks counted

+

Ability to choose between 3 types of suppression ~ all first time, simply hard and elite bravery, simply elite bravery

=

Incentive to group more with a variety of players

[Ape_Man]

Not sure if players can see this but:


Elite and Hard Bravery streaks counted

+

Ability to choose between 3 types of suppression ~ all first time, simply hard and elite bravery, simply elite bravery

=

Incentive to group more with a variety of players

Dude, I'm astonished anyone can find ANYTHING negative to say about these changes.

[EllisDee37]

Dude, I'm astonished anyone can find ANYTHING negative to say about these changes.

It's taking an already unwieldy and confusing mechanic and adding more layers to it. Layers which include more running back and forth between quests.

Here's a mockup of how I'd rather see bravery changed, with correctly recalculated numbers. Left is live, right is proposed. Note the exact same xp totals for both:



So much simpler. No running back and forth to suppress bravery. Cleaner XP report. All the advantages of bravery with none of the headache.

[Silverleafeon]

Wish List for Suppression Sam Version 3.0 ^{with past feedback requests added to it.}

• Be stationed within 2 loading screens of any adventuring location or the like. Be located in the airship and hall of heroes locations. Add Hall of Heroes to Teleporter Spell List.
  
  
• Suppression Menu. This ability does not have any timers on it.
  
  
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards Elite Bravery
    
    
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards Elite and Hard Bravery
    
    
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards being First Time Run
    
    
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards favor, flagging, incrementing any sort of completion counters, etc..(its ok to combine 3 and 4 if necessary.
  
  
  
• Places visible buffs on your toon that says "Hard bravery suppressed" and "Elite bravery suppressed"
  
  
• Can tell you this toon's current Hard and Elite Bravery streaks.
  
  
• Wears a fancy hat like a mad hatter type.
  
  
• Has the ability to erase your entire favor flagging for your toon back to zero, restoring all bravery and first time bonuses. This ability has a once per X weeks timer on it.
  
  
• Is a dragon in elf form, preferably a Gold dragon.
  
  
• Its has a fancy Dragon Name, a bit hard to pronounce, and it humors the adventures a bit in the dialog.
  
  
• Optional ~ Increase the range of heroic level limits for powerleveling by +1, also discuss other heroic level limits such as bravery being increased by +1 the way epics were increased by +2
  
  
• Etc...

[Silverleafeon]

Wish List for Suppression Sam Version 4.0 ^{with past feedback requests added to it.}

• Be easy to get to.
  
  
  • Be located in the airship and hall of heroes locations as stated.
    
    
  • Be located directly next to the Harbor teleportation location.
    
    
  • Consider being located in any minor civilization such as
    
    
    • Amarath
      
      
    • Wheloon
      
      
    • Reaver's Refuge
      
      
    • Gianthold
      
      
    • The Vale
      
      
    • Upper Necropolis
  
  
  
• Suppression Menu. This ability does not have any timers on it. It is a multi-selection permanent buff:
  
  
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards Elite Bravery
    
    
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards Elite and Hard Bravery
    
    
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards being First Time Run
    
    
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards favor, flagging, incrementing any sort of completion counters, etc..(its ok to combine 3 and 4 if necessary.
    
    
  • Grants a +25% bonus to heroic normal questing. Must be a first life toon.
    
    
  • Grants a +15% bonus to heroic hard questing. Must be a second life toon.
    
    
  • Grants a "quest type" 3 negative level debuff (applies to Heroic Quest Xp calculations by lowering your real level by 3). Also, suppress any quests/raids for counting towards favor, flagging, incrementing any sort of completion counters, etc..Must be a third life or higher toon.
    
    
  • Grants a "quest type" 3 negative level debuff (applies to Epic Quest Xp calculations by lowering your real level by 3). Also, suppress any quests/raids for counting towards favor, flagging, incrementing any sort of completion counters, etc..Must be a third life or higher toon.
  
  
  
• Places visible buffs on your toon that indicates which type of Suppression you have running.
  
  
• Can tell you this toon's current Hard and Elite Bravery streaks.
  
  
• Wears a fancy hat like a mad hatter type. Has Gold colored material somewhere on outfit.
  
  
• Optional: Has the ability to erase your entire favor flagging for your toon back to zero, restoring all bravery and first time bonuses. This ability has a once per X weeks timer on it.
  
  
• Is a dragon in elf form, preferably a Gold dragon.
  
  
• Dialog
  
  
  • Provides humor: My name is Suppliciousif the 10th but you can call me Sam.
    
    
  • Provides instruction: Would you like me to explain bravery?
    
    
  • Provides sympathy:
    
    
    • Are you a first life toon? I can grant you bonus experience. Explains.
      
      
    • Are you a second life toon? I can grant you bonus experience. Explains.
      
      
    • Are you a third life toon? I can help you group with lower level players. Explains.
      
      
    • Are you concerned about losing your Bravery Streaks? I can help you. Explains.
  
  
  
• Optional ~ Increase the range of heroic level limits for powerleveling by +1, also discuss other heroic level limits such as bravery being increased by +1 the way epics were increased by +2
  

[Silverleafeon]

So much simpler.

It seems that maybe you were the straw that turned the tide and pushed this all forward, congratulations.

Sometimes the Devs take our ideas and improvise in good ways.

A warmage project idea is now located in the harper tree.



While your ideas are great, to my thinking they do not answer the age old question of "I have not done this quest on elite yet, can I join a normal or hard run?" sufficiently.

They also remove incentive rewards to play the game.

They also introduce more xp into the game which might be better placed in weekend grouping bonuses.

They also don't answer the age old question of "what do we do for the newcomer?"

[Silverleafeon]

A lot of these ideas, I'm stealing from past posters.

Consider the 3 negative level debuff idead, inspired by occasionally lamanted by guildies and forum posters. "I wish I could group with you but my only toon near that level is too high for you."

Or the recent brilliant idea, "We need to do something nice for newcomers.", hence +X% normal bonus xp for first life toon.

The Supp Buffs could be chose of the below so that any buff removes another version of Supp Buffs.

[nibel]

Can you please look over this post again? I found it very confusing when I read it the first time and it still is misleading.

Language barrier, probably. I'm fluent, but english is still not my first language. You can check those four bonus when you enter any quest on bravery level.



The 80% bonus applies when you run elite for the first time, regardless if you ran the quest on casual, normal, or hard before.
The 20% bonus applies when the first time you run an quest is on elite. This bonus is NOT bravery because it is given as a separeted bonus from the +10-50% bravery.
The bravery bonus is applied in you-know-when conditions, and have a variable bonus from 10 to 50%.

I was saying that if you want to get the bravery bonus changed to other bonus, it should be merged on the 20%, not the 80%.

[Silverleafeon]

Given:

From the Quest info box on Lamannia, concerning the Bravery Bonus:

"To qualify, you must play on Hard, Elite, or Reaper difficulty your first time through."

I can neither confirm nor deny that we have been discussing the possibility of a Reaper mode with the player's council or that we have been looking into some sort of proof of concept for a new difficulty above elite. Nor are we committing to nor announcing another difficulty level at this time.

Sev~

Elite is tied to bravery streaks (with bonuses), favor, and other rewards that current players are basing their game play and game time around. The current game demands playing through content for the very first time on elite to get these bonuses as well, thus adding to the expectation that players should be able to complete new content on elite. That's a good thing for many of our players. Making elite even more difficult is not something we want to do at this time.

Sev~

Wish List for Suppression Sam Version 5.0 ^{with past feedback requests added to it.}

• Be easy to get to.
  
  
  • Be located in the airship and hall of heroes locations as stated.
    
    
  • Be located directly next to the Harbor teleportation location.
    
    
  • Consider being located in any minor civilization such as
    
    
    • Amarath
      
      
    • Wheloon
      
      
    • Reaver's Refuge
      
      
    • Gianthold
      
      
    • The Vale
      
      
    • Upper Necropolis
  
  
  
• Suppression Menu. This ability does not have any timers on it. It is a multi-selection permanent buff, chose one of the below (replaces existing suppression buffs):
  
  
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards Reaper Bravery
    
    
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards Reaper and Elite Bravery
    
    
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards Reaper, Elite and Hard Bravery
    
    
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards being First Time Run
    
    
  • Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards favor, flagging, incrementing any sort of completion counters, etc..(its ok to combine 3 and 4 if necessary.
    
    
  • Grants a +25% bonus to heroic normal questing. Must be a first life toon.
    
    
  • Grants a +15% bonus to heroic hard questing. Must be a second life toon.
    
    
  • Grants a "quest type" 3 negative level debuff (applies to Heroic Quest Xp calculations by lowering your real level by 3). Also, suppress any quests/raids for counting towards favor, flagging, incrementing any sort of completion counters, etc..Must be a third life or higher toon.
    
    
  • Grants a "quest type" 3 negative level debuff (applies to Epic Quest Xp calculations by lowering your real level by 3). Also, suppress any quests/raids for counting towards favor, flagging, incrementing any sort of completion counters, etc..Must be a third life or higher toon.
  
  
  
• Places visible buffs on your toon that indicates which type of Suppression you have running.
  
  
• Can tell you this toon's current Reaper, Elite, and Hard Bravery streaks.
  
  
• Wears a fancy hat like a mad hatter type. Has Gold colored material somewhere on outfit.
  
  
• Optional: Has the ability to erase your entire favor flagging for your toon back to zero, restoring all bravery and first time bonuses. This ability has a once per X weeks timer on it.
  
  
• Is a dragon in elf form, preferably a Gold dragon.
  
  
• Dialog
  
  
  • Provides humor: My name is Suppliciousif the 10th but you can call me Sam.
    
    
  • Provides instruction: Would you like me to explain bravery?
    
    
  • Provides sympathy:
    
    
    • Are you a first life toon? I can grant you bonus experience. Explains.
      
      
    • Are you a second life toon? I can grant you bonus experience. Explains.
      
      
    • Are you a third life toon? I can help you group with lower level players. Explains.
      
      
    • Are you concerned about losing your Bravery Streaks? I can help you. Explains.
  
  
  
• Optional ~ Increase the range of heroic level limits for powerleveling by +1, also discuss other heroic level limits such as bravery being increased by +1 the way epics were increased by +2
  

[PsychoBlonde]

Consider also getting rid of the late arrival penalty. Nobody in a group cares if somebody was late to a quest but potential joiners care if they miss 50-80% xp. It's hard enough having to bust your butt to get to an IP quest before finish if you join late. An extra penalty really isn't warranted.

It'd be really nice if you guys would seriously make an effort to have more free-form "chainless" quests and so forth in future updates. None of this "you must have done the other quests to do this one" stuff. Flagging for raids is okay, but don't make us have to do several quests to flag for another quest--it's hard to keep a group together for an entire chain. Too many people leave after one quest and then if anybody joins they probably won't be flagged for the last one so they have to drop out. Unfair.

LFM panel, quest log, and quest compendium could also use a serious overhaul if encouraging grouping is going to be a thing. They are annoying to use and slow to update. It's really easy to forget to update them.

I'd love to be able to put up an LFM for a questing AREA ("House Jorasco", "Delera's Graveyard") rather than having to do a specific quest. I generally do all the quests in a given area at once and that at least would mean I wouldn't have to update the dang lfm every 5 minutes.

It'd be nice if you put up LFG that if a group goes up in the LFM for that quest or area, you auto-join that group. So you wouldn't have to keep checking the LFM over and over.

[Tscheuss]

Given:










Wish List for Suppression Sam Version 5.0 ^{with past feedback requests added to it.}


[list][*]Be easy to get to.

• Be located in the airship and hall of heroes locations as stated.
  
  
• Be located directly next to the Harbor teleportation location.
  
  
• Consider being located in any minor civilization such as
  
  
  • Amarath
    
    
  • Wheloon
    
    
  • Reaver's Refuge
    
    
  • Gianthold
    
    
  • The Vale
    
    
  • Upper Necropolis

.
.
.

Instead of a new npc to be placed everywhere, why not just expand the Spirit Binder dialog?

[Silverleafeon]

Consider also getting rid of the late arrival penalty. Nobody in a group cares if somebody was late to a quest but potential joiners care if they miss 50-80% xp. It's hard enough having to bust your butt to get to an IP quest before finish if you join late. An extra penalty really isn't warranted.

That certainly should be considered.

It'd be really nice if you guys would seriously make an effort to have more free-form "chainless" quests and so forth in future updates. None of this "you must have done the other quests to do this one" stuff. Flagging for raids is okay, but don't make us have to do several quests to flag for another quest--it's hard to keep a group together for an entire chain. Too many people leave after one quest and then if anybody joins they probably won't be flagged for the last one so they have to drop out. Unfair.

Had this happen alot in certain places.
Lordmarch for example.

LFM panel, quest log, and quest compendium could also use a serious overhaul if encouraging grouping is going to be a thing. They are annoying to use and slow to update. It's really easy to forget to update them.

I'd love to be able to put up an LFM for a questing AREA ("House Jorasco", "Delera's Graveyard") rather than having to do a specific quest. I generally do all the quests in a given area at once and that at least would mean I wouldn't have to update the dang lfm every 5 minutes.

It'd be nice if you put up LFG that if a group goes up in the LFM for that quest or area, you auto-join that group. So you wouldn't have to keep checking the LFM over and over.

Adding Areas sounds interesting.

I believe Public Grouping sort of allows auto-join, although such has its own set of pop up problems.

Instead of a new npc to be placed everywhere, why not just expand the Spirit Binder dialog?

Absolutely brilliant.

[Silverleafeon]

Unless of course, opening up an old system could produce halos and such and a new NPC would be better?

[knockcocker]

It's taking an already unwieldy and confusing mechanic and adding more layers to it. Layers which include more running back and forth between quests.

Here's a mockup of how I'd rather see bravery changed, with correctly recalculated numbers. Left is live, right is proposed. Note the exact same xp totals for both:


image hosting over 5mb

So much simpler. No running back and forth to suppress bravery. Cleaner XP report. All the advantages of bravery with none of the headache.

Indeed. It's almost like the NIH stuff you see in some development projects.

Why add another poor mechanic on top of another poor mechanic? it makes no sense to me
at all.

[Postumus]

instead of a new npc to be placed everywhere, why not just expand the spirit binder dialog?

this!

[davmuzl]

Language barrier, probably. I'm fluent, but english is still not my first language. You can check those four bonus when you enter any quest on bravery level.

I just was a little confused by the 200% first time bonus at first, because it feels this number is out of context. It only describes the difference of the first ever run compared to doing the same quest a second time again.
What you get for running every quest on elite the first time instead of normal or hard is only 70% bonus xp.

The 20% bonus applies when the first time you run an quest is on elite. This bonus is NOT bravery because it is given as a separeted bonus from the +10-50% bravery.

But it actually says:
... and have chosen to play elite difficulty BRAVERY BONUS +20%: xp

I was saying that if you want to get the bravery bonus changed to other bonus, it should be merged on the 20%, not the 80%.

Because it's what actually makes sense

[lyrecono]

then give norm/hard/elite the same exp as elite and raise the droprate for elite (incentive for tr's)

problems solved

though i might be oversimplifying things

How would that solve the problem when elite is still the default difficulty and the difficulties are not changing?

it was meant as a tong in cheek comment,
If all the quest gave the same exp of a first time elite BB streak regardless of level&difficulty then everybody would group for normal again.
and the "the game isn't hard enough" crowd would still have their elite.

all meant as a joke ofc

[FranOhmsford]

Consider also getting rid of the late arrival penalty. Nobody in a group cares if somebody was late to a quest but potential joiners care if they miss 50-80% xp. It's hard enough having to bust your butt to get to an IP quest before finish if you join late. An extra penalty really isn't warranted.

That penalty is there to stop people from catching the coattails of quests to gain FREE XP!

Honestly in quests that take longer than 10 mins it's pretty common for people to still be doing this even with the -80% penalty and dropping said penalty would be a big mistake!

It'd be really nice if you guys would seriously make an effort to have more free-form "chainless" quests and so forth in future updates. None of this "you must have done the other quests to do this one" stuff. Flagging for raids is okay, but don't make us have to do several quests to flag for another quest--it's hard to keep a group together for an entire chain. Too many people leave after one quest and then if anybody joins they probably won't be flagged for the last one so they have to drop out. Unfair.

LFM panel, quest log, and quest compendium could also use a serious overhaul if encouraging grouping is going to be a thing. They are annoying to use and slow to update. It's really easy to forget to update them.

I'd love to be able to put up an LFM for a questing AREA ("House Jorasco", "Delera's Graveyard") rather than having to do a specific quest. I generally do all the quests in a given area at once and that at least would mean I wouldn't have to update the dang lfm every 5 minutes.

Actually Chains like Tangleroot, Sorrowdusk, Threnal and Catacombs have this issue in Spades!

What I'd like to see is an option to choose the Chain rather than a specific quest AND that the LFM updates automatically each time a quest in that Chain is completed to show the next quest in the Chain.

This would remove the need for the leader to constantly update the LFM after each quest in case someone joins thinking she's still on Pt 1.


For looser Chains like Vale or Sands the Option could be there for you to select the quests in the order you want to run them before you start and the LFM will update automatically following that selection.

Say I want to run Wiz King, OoB and Chains in that order.
Say someone else prefers to start with Chains and then do OoB and Wiz King.
Say someone else wants to start with OoB followed by Wiz King and skip Chains entirely.
Well this gives all three of those Leaders the same benefit and removes the need to type the quest order into the box therefore giving more space for stuff like BYOH, Zerg, All Welcome etc.

It'd be nice if you put up LFG that if a group goes up in the LFM for that quest or area, you auto-join that group. So you wouldn't have to keep checking the LFM over and over.

What about if the group leader doesn't want you auto-joining his group? What if he wants to be able to choose who he accepts?

[Vellrad]

Language barrier, probably. I'm fluent, but english is still not my first language. You can check those four bonus when you enter any quest on bravery level.



The 80% bonus applies when you run elite for the first time, regardless if you ran the quest on casual, normal, or hard before.
The 20% bonus applies when the first time you run an quest is on elite. This bonus is NOT bravery because it is given as a separeted bonus from the +10-50% bravery.

You have never played this adventure before, and have chosen to play elite difficulty. Bravery bonus (+20%).
This IS the bravery bonus.

The bravery bonus is applied in you-know-when conditions, and have a variable bonus from 10 to 50%.

This is thre bravery STREAK bonus.

I was saying that if you want to get the bravery bonus changed to other bonus, it should be merged on the 20%, not the 80%.