Upcoming Experience Changes

[Kylstrem]

The population time has to take up extra time at some point. Whatever we do, we want the player to be able to control when that extra time takes place instead of adding it to login time like it used to.

~

The above answer was in regards to having to go to the Who tab before LFMs would show all names.

It seems the simplest answer is just have the game perform the same function when the LFM tab is opened as the function as when the Who Tab is opened so that the names start filtering in.

[JOTMON]

The above answer was in regards to having to go to the Who tab before LFMs would show all names.

It seems the simplest answer is just have the game perform the same function when the LFM tab is opened as the function as when the Who Tab is opened so that the names start filtering in.

which causes system login load lag.

[CaptainSpacePony]

It's a toggle that lasts until you talk to the NPC again.

Sev~

I have not read the public thread, but I've been thinking about it for a while and I now feel the suspension of BB toggle is ill-conceived. If a player stays on top of it, they will maintain their "streak" bonus w/o actually streaking. If a player messes it up and inadvertently breaks their streak they will find it frustrating.

Wouldn't it be simpler to simply get rid of bravery streaks and instead increase the "1st time playing this quest" bonus for hard and elite? It would be the same XP, but wouldn't require the visits to the toggle interface.

[MaeveTuohy]

Based on player feedback we are implementing some experience changes.

~ We are working on an additional DDO bonus days event that will award a percentage bonus on completion XP for each additional person in your dungeon group. This will not affect raids.

~ We are working on an additional DDO bonus days event that will award a percentage bonus on completion XP for each additional person in your raid group. This will not affect dungeons.

Sev~

What he meant to write was:

"We realize that people want reasons to group, to be properly rewarded for soloing and to see the difficulty of the game increase.

We were going to institute a system where people got greater xp rewards for doing even less, but came to our senses.

Accordingly, we will be instituting the following changes.

1. The difficulty of the game will be increased across the board, especially for elite.

2. Base xp for Hard and Normal will be decreased.

3. An xp bonus will be instituted based on the number of party members (including hirelings): 10% for 4; 20% for 3; 30% for 2 and 50% for 1.


In this way, soloists will be rewarded for their effort. Those who wish to tackle higher difficulties will need to group. The very best players may be able to solo elite content and will be duly rewarded with greater xp.

Grouping for elite and hard or soloing on normal should produce a similar pace of level advancement to the current milieu."

[Severlin]

I have not read the public thread, but I've been thinking about it for a while and I now feel the suspension of BB toggle is ill-conceived. If a player stays on top of it, they will maintain their "streak" bonus w/o actually streaking. If a player messes it up and inadvertently breaks their streak they will find it frustrating.

Wouldn't it be simpler to simply get rid of bravery streaks and instead increase the "1st time playing this quest" bonus for hard and elite? It would be the same XP, but wouldn't require the visits to the toggle interface.

A lot of players like tracking the bravery streak count so we wouldn't want to remove it entirely.

Sev~

[Faltout]

A lot of players like tracking the bravery streak count so we wouldn't want to remove it entirely.

Sev~

And this mechanism will make the streak count useless for bragging purposes. So, why don't you keep streak count as is (without the option to suspend it) and increase the xp for hard and elite the first time in a quest?

Players that like their streak count can still have a meaningful count and players that like xp can avoid trips to an NPC.

[zehnvhex]

It is true that tying the group bonus to an event gives us the ability to monitor and moderate the bonus, but we think people will dig it. Part of this change allows us to have some nice "raid weekends"; it's a good bonus and system to have. Having it on an event also gives us a bit more wiggle room on the - amount - of the bonus.

If we were to see dramatic changes in grouping behavior, it's clearly something we'd look at. Our hope is that these changes have a beneficial impact, and address some long-standing concerns raised by near-everyone over the years. This will not be on the first deployment to Lamannia, but our hope is to get some of these changes out for public previewing soon-ish. Thanks for the great feedback so far!

Will we see any updates/improvements made to the LFG interface at any point? Or grouping in general? Personally I see the greatest hurdles being that the interface is clunky and hard to use effectively/quickly. It takes me more time to set up a LFG prompt then to complete most quests and using the auto-LFG tool puts a giant annoying pop up in the middle of my screen and I have to manually re-enter any 'custom' text every zone in.

Having the auto-pugger not take up 50% of my available real estate with that "YOU ARE LEADING A PUBLIC GROUP, YOU ARE TOTALLY NOT AWARE OF THIS FACT AFTER YEARS OF USING THIS FEATURE" message would be step 1. Having it remember my level range settings would be step 2. Having it remember "Don't ask questions, just join, Elite, BB, know how to get here and have the pack, piking okay" without having to re-up it every time would be step 3.

I'd also like to see DDO implement mentoring so that I'm not prevented from grouping with 90% of other players at any given time. It's 2015 guys, the best solution to grouping is to allow anyone to group with anyone. I would -love- to be able to mentor down to level 5 and just run with people doing Korthos stuff. Want to incentivize it? Add a +3 favor option if you complete a quest as a mentor. My wrist would snap from how hard I'd be pulling my credit card out to be able to mentor in this game.

[Qhualor]

A lot of players like tracking the bravery streak count so we wouldn't want to remove it entirely.

Sev~

unfortunately, this is true. I know some players that are actually proud of their high number and refuse to lose that high number no matter what, even though any number above 5 has 0 benefit. i would like to think if it wasn't for the BB being able to exceed 5 that there would be less concern with players tracking BB streak count and more concern on fixing the negatives that the streak comes with. pausing the streak is probably the best compromise, but this would affect more the casual players, soloists that cant or have trouble with certain elite quests and (crosses fingers) ones that are better suited for a lower difficulty than elite.

[btolson]

A lot of players like tracking the bravery streak count so we wouldn't want to remove it entirely.

Sev~

Under the proposed system, that number doesn't mean much anymore because you can just "cheat" the system with the toggle.

I think what you want to do in order to please as many people as possible is:
-Convert Bravery into a purely-bragging rights mechanic. It will stack and clear as it does now on live, there will be NO toggle to disable it, and it will offer NO tangible rewards (i.e., no bonus XP).
-Make a complementary change to increase the XP for first-time completion bonus as has been suggested earlier in the thread.

This is a lot simpler for everyone, while preserving an uncheatable Bravery count for people who like to see it.

[TheGuyYouKnow]

Based on player feedback we are implementing some experience changes.

~ There is now an NPC in the Hall of Heroes that will suppress your Bravery Streak and associated bonuses. While suppressed you can go off and do content on lower difficulties without ruining your streak. This allows you to group with friends, or join pick up groups, or even do new content on lower difficulty settings without ruining your bravery streak. Note that while suppressed bravery streaks are not ended, but you don't get associated bravery bonuses
Sev~

so what is the point of bravery streak bonus at all? remove it and add the experience to first time bonus.
alternatively:
running hard as first time -5 streak count to a minimum of 3
running normal as first time -10 streak

this way players who run elite can run normal and hard without talking the penalty unless it becomes common.

[Hafeal]

A lot of players like tracking the bravery streak count so we wouldn't want to remove it entirely.

Sev~

ooookay.

Just for curiosity's sake, wanting to get into the dev psychology here, what is a "A lot of players"? How was that number/percentage derived? Survey? Poll? The PC? What about the players who don't want it? Do they number "A lot"?

Or is this a polite way of saying we ain't gonna change it and we don't want to explain why? Frankly, I would rather you just say this if this is true. Throwing out vague phrases such as "A lot of players like" is opening yourself to further questions - not just here but as to how the dev teams analyzes all its design choices.

I have not seen any recent polling in DDO - on the forums or in-game. In fact, I have never seen consistent polling from DDO on any topic. There were a few polls back in Mournlands days and a couple (?) on the 2014 PC, but not many at all. So, I would politely request something a little more concrete if you are gonna throw around that you have an idea that "A lot of players" do or don't like something.

DDO is a game for numbers, and I would hazard to guess even the lesser mathy types amongst us want to see the dice roll on this.

[UurlockYgmeov]

A lot of players like tracking the bravery streak count so we wouldn't want to remove it entirely.

Sev~

I like the proposed changes as they are. well done.

Just kindly include a status indicator (maybe on buff bar or on character sheet) and a tool tip to show current streak #'s.

tyia hand.

[kain741]

I'm going to have to agree, the number won't mean anything anymore and there won't really be anyway to have bragging rights since anyone could manipulate their streak when convenient. It seems to make more sense to keep it in place as it is but don't tie xp directly to it, instead tie the xp to first time bonuses when completed on elite or hard. This way people who just want to track it can still do that and will actually get a more accurate number because they won't be able to turn it off. This will also avoid the inevitable rants after the fact when they forgot to turn it back on before their Von 5 BB and the like. If it's really not going to track bravery (running to an NPC is not brave) then it doesn't represent what it used to and better to just streamline the process by integrating in the current first time bonus.

[Silverleafeon]

A lot of players like tracking the bravery streak count so we wouldn't want to remove it entirely.

Sev~

Count me as one.

Was sad and happy the day Thunderholms arrived...its the raids that do the streak in...

It still takes a lot of time and effort to build upon hundreds or thousands on a bravery streak, and these players never do raid as much until update 27. Yes, I meet people as such they are out there.


Please make an indicator (such as a buff symbol) ~ Toon has bravery suppressed so player will not forget and others can remind them if they do. Thank you.

[Vyder]

I could care less about any number past the max bravery bonus of 5. Just get rid of bravery and add it to first time bonus. If it's not possible to get rid of bravery because people like to see big streak numbers then please just add a check box at the quest entrance. You choose difficulty and check/uncheck a box to suppress streak.

[Angelic-council]

A lot of players like tracking the bravery streak count so we wouldn't want to remove it entirely.

Sev~

Yes, Sev is correct on this. Many people I know in game (including myself) like the bravery bonus number.

I (my party) will no longer lose EXP unless I personally die and it will only affect me. We get more EXP in groups. This is a very positive change that I don't really have to add anything.

However, this streak suppress... it would be annoying to always go back into hall and disable/enable it. There should be an option to switch on and off at the quest entrance.

[FranOhmsford]

It takes me more time to set up a LFG prompt then to complete most quests

This is blatant hyperbole!

Maybe you can complete Home Sweet Sewer in the time it takes you to set up an LFM, Maybe you can complete Haverdasher in the time it takes you to set up an LFM but these are 30 second quests!

Most quests in game past Lvl 2 even if they're empty of all mobs will take between 3-5 minutes just to run through! Many will take quite a bit longer!



I would like it if Chain LFMs could be set to automatically move the quest on when you complete each part - Or have a Dev go through the quest panel in the LFG page and place quests that are part of chains and at the same level next to each other AND in the right order!

Example:
Depths Chain
Depths of Despair and Depths of Darkness - Both Lvl 4 - Aren't even next to each other in the quest panel! {Despair should be first btw}.
Depths of Discord and Depths of Doom - Both Lvl 5 - Are next to each other in the quest panel but in the wrong order! {Discord should come before Doom!}.

Sorrowdusk is one of the worst for this! - Multiple times the quests are in the wrong order in the quest panel!

[Silverleafeon]

At one point in last year's PC we started a thread that at point lamented the lack of Prestigious things to do in DDO, such as a Trophy Case...removing a area of Prestige from the game seems a step backward.


While some folks might proclaim those with Bravery Streak pre U27 are better than those afterwards, I submit that Raids are not a test of individual strength but that of the strength of the party. Hence, a player who leads a series of raids on Epic Hard taking the first 11 people to hit the Pug Lfm without thought to class type including one or several newcomers, being kind enough to teach them the raid could be considered a superior player to one who takes an hour or more setting up an EE raid thru friends, channels, and guild chat with careful consideration to roles?

Some might disagree with me, and I could even be wrong, but that is my opinion.


One of the Flaws of Epic Lives is the lack of any first time bonuses in due time, creating the Von/Wiz King/Spies daily attitude which is what removing bravery will extend downward.


If one wants to improved heroic grouping even more, consider add +1 to the limits of power leveling, etc...
I like the changes, thank you.
Yes I could be very wrong, but its my opinion.

[maddong]

I like the idea of just increasing the first time bonuses and making the streak for bragging purposes only.

[zehnvhex]

I think most people are in favor of that as well. What problem was bravery bonus intended to fix anyways?