Upcoming Experience Changes

[pitong]

good idea, but few years too late.
you could also make events with bonus exp and/or higher drop rate for some quest chains. like 2x drop rate for seals/shards in sands or vons for few hours. those events could be more frequent but announced only 1 hour before or so. it would make game a bit more interesting

[Livmo]

~ There is now an NPC in the Hall of Heroes that will suppress your Bravery Streak and associated bonuses. While suppressed you can go off and do content on lower difficulties without ruining your streak. This allows you to group with friends, or join pick up groups, or even do new content on lower difficulty settings without ruining your bravery streak. Note that while suppressed bravery streaks are not ended, but you don't get associated bravery bonuses.

Get ride rid of the bravery streak. It's a constant source of petty anti-social behavior in game. Over time DDO Forum threads have demonstrated the player base is not emotionally mature enough for this type of mechanic in game. More than likely issues will persist bravery streak, even with the toggle option.

There is plenty of XP in the game. Please find other XP incentives and remove this one.

Thanks.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

It's what many people asked for.

It fixes what many people complain about.

It nullifies one of the major complaints against grouping with random players.


... sounds like a good thing to me.






(although in reality, I really wish you guys would stop catering to the unfriendly XP/Minute crowd.)

[Qhualor]

so after experiencing crippling lag in a group today with a few deaths, I wonder how long before people complain that they lost xp because of Lag Monster?

[FranOhmsford]

so after experiencing crippling lag in a group today with a few deaths, I wonder how long before people complain that they lost xp because of Lag Monster?

Considering people have been doing that for years why would it change?

In fact it's likely to be less now as only the person who lagged will lose the xp rather than the entire group!

[Requiro]

We didn't do something like this because it would be a nerf to solo XP.
Sev~

I do not agree and even do not understand that kind of thinking at all

Arguments:
1. In solo mode you do not waste time for looking for team. Thus you can spend more time for more questing = more XP
2. Nerf is when you take sth down. You rise XP for group, thus only some solo whiners will look at this as a nerf.
3. DnD was essential group game only. While DDO is not DnD, players know the origins, and will understand why groups get some advantage.
4. Grouping is the future in that kind of game, where you fight against computer AI, not real people (PvP). That’s why grouping should get some advantage.

For now grouping is dangerous. You can lose XP and Time, while you get NOTHING in return.
Groups right now are only for fun.

If you want more groups, give them something special. Like more XP (like in proposal you answered) or something crazy ideas like additional slot loot, 2nd quest reward, more platinum, same group bravery stark (all ideas depends of group size) ect.

[zeonardo]

Might want to consider balancing Walorcks if you want to encourage grouping.
I mean, I know that for the commercial side of the realease, a powerful class might be appealing. But c'mon... seriously?
Guys are clearing the entire universe with a single cleave.
Next thing they will be able to go from 1 to cap with a single cleave without even leaving the guild ship.

If you only play to get experience to levelup it's ok. Go in and pike.
Now if you gear your character, buy cosmetics, spend time to improve your chances of having fun with your character the way you built it, but you are NOT a warlock... you're left to pike or swing wildly at thin air as they pass.

[Thuldorn]

~ They are designed as a small additional perk of running harder content.


Sev~

So if they were designed to be a small perk why does everything you can get with them cost so much?

[Silverleafeon]

Hi DDO Devs,


At times and places one hears calls for removal of the bravery bonus.

But what was it really like before Braver was implemented?


Lets us take Mining for Ancient Secrets on the Khyber server in the days of drama:


LMF is up, Byoh (bring your own heals) know way Nx11, H, E

Your first task after joining the group is to reply:

Ty, omw, (hopefully you already have running shippies unless it was before that time period)

To which, the leader would probably say, hurry almost done with run number 5.

Knowing your way to the quest easily you run by another player who is being yelled at by the leader for getting lost; being a nice person, you try to herd them in the direction hoping they will follow you instead of randomly killing slayers as you rush to the quest.

Mining is fairly easy to get to, if you open wiki look at the map and have a decent understand of the desert.

You arrive at the quest with your new found friend in time for the to be saying share please. So you open the quest tab (because you thought to hot bar it) and share with him.

Everyone jumps in on normal and the leader says split up.

So you head to the ruby section, and hear the leader yelling at the players, split up several times.

Someone asks for deathward then runs off, excepting people to chase him down for buffs.

You head across the bridges and downward knowing your choice is somewhat less commonly chosen.
Someone wisely follows you, and the two of you deal with mini bosses zerging forward as fast as the pace can allow.
You toss a heal on your friend right before then next room, as you can umd heal scrolls.
The two you charge in to the room as someone dies and another party member gets hopelessly lost.

You shrug your shoulders and power thru, gathering up the gems. You and you friend head up and over and around,
quickly the quest objectives weighing choices.

Picking a set of gems, you come across a soul stone, picking it up you hasten to the beginning of the new gem area and cast a raise dead scroll.

By now the leader of the group is making comments like why did you die, why did not you split up, why is this taking sooo long, why ...

Herding the group towards the gems you bum rush the bosses and over power them, taking a second to toss a heal scroll mid fight then taking aggro in the next room.

The leader is heading toward another set of jewels (an easier one) and still being a drama queen, cause its khyber.

Some else gets lost but you gather them up as head towards the last set, storming the foes in the last jewel rooms. A player dies again, and the leader starts telling the whole group off about what nobs we are and how his guild does things so much better.

The quest is finished, everyone recalls out, the leader proclaims what a waste of time this is which good players and teleports away leaving the party in a rage quit.

The party looks at each other in shame/consternation/amazement as you calmly say, I'll take the star please, now that everyone has seen the quest areas a bit I think the next run will go more smoothly (although to yourself, you think the last run went pretty well anyway), you tell players if you need heals stick near me, and I don't mind people teaming up in 2s or 3s.

You get in about 6 normal runs and everyone is asking when can we do hard and what about that quest beside wiz king, what is it like, i gotta go, my family needs me, afk a min bio...




Years later, you start a tour of the desert, once and done, stick together, take anyone quest level to quest level minus 3, leading the way, picking up explorers as you go. Things are so smooth, people begin to ask, when did Khyber lose its drama?

Do we blame bravery for that?

Hmm...


Cheers,
Silver

[Tscheuss]

Hi DDO Devs,


At times and places one hears calls for removal of the bravery bonus.

But what was it really like before Braver was implemented?


Lets us take Mining for Ancient Secrets on the Khyber server in the days of drama:
.
.
.

Years later, you start a tour of the desert, once and done, stick together, take anyone quest level to quest level minus 3, leading the way, picking up explorers as you go. Things are so smooth, people begin to ask, when did Khyber lose its drama?

Do we blame bravery for that?

Hmm...


Cheers,
Silver

<3 the story.

[PermaBanned]

Get ride rid of the bravery streak. It's a constant source of petty anti-social behavior in game.

Petty anti-social people are the source of petty anti-social behavior - Streak is just one of their excuses. Before the Streak, we still had plenty of petty anti-social people being petty and anti-social; if the Devs followed your advice, we'd still have the same people displaying the same behavior.

[Dark_Helmet]

But a lot of people don't understand it, and think it's the difference between 320% base and 1.1*320 = 352% base. Those people will feel better for the change; me, I will continue not caring.

This change misses the whole point of why grouping is unattractive in DDO, even to people like me that strongly prefer grouping, and that is dungeon scaling. Compared to solo, adding a random player results in mobs and traps doing ~40% more damage, having ~30% more HP, and having better saves. Assuming you are a solid player (i.e. capable of elite streak soloing to 16 or 17 at a decent pace), you need an above average player to make up for the additional difficulty.

Agreed. I was never a fan of the scaling just because it drove a large portion of people to solo or duo for the ease to finish without someone dying.

IMNSHO, the other reason people don't group is DUNGEON ALERT. Anyone who comes in later can spawn or, worse, they go a different path and agro stuff through the walls. It is an issue they won't fix because they don't understand how it drove away a lot of players (not just zergers, but casual role players who thought it was a bad mechanism).

And Uska is wrong as this WILL open up a certain class of players who don't normally group just because they won't get the penalty of the noobs who die easily.

Finally, bonus days are just that: BONUS days. It is not penalizing anyone. While I don't like some of the bonuses they give out, it doesn't change my game playing and ignore them.

[pjw]

Re: Mysterious Remnants:

I don't think we want to encourage players to run under level to farm Remnants. They are designed as a small additional perk of running harder content.

Any chance of allowing them to drop any time BB could be active? ie. up to two levels over level in epics?

[Kompera_Oberon]

Sorry its terrible and more dumbing down, the loss of the bonus was to encourage teamwork. I cant say I care for it at all

While the intent might have been to encourage teamwork, in realty it discouraged teamwork by assigning an "if this tool I'm grouped with dies I lose EXP" penalty to grouping. That and the dungeon scaling mechanic worked against grouping.

We didn't do something like this because it would be a nerf to solo XP.

Sev~

You say that like it's somehow a bad thing...

[lyrecono]

While the intent might have been to encourage teamwork, in realty it discouraged teamwork by assigning an "if this tool I'm grouped with dies I lose EXP" penalty to grouping. That and the dungeon scaling mechanic worked against grouping.


You say that like it's somehow a bad thing...

"if this tool I'm grouped with dies I lose EXP"
I just had to lift this out.

i run tr lives on a weekly basis, i notice people scanning for names like my toons sending tells when i come online, hoping to mooch of a few quest completions out of me.
Heck, i have people playing alt until they see me come within level range again a week later.
And i'm normally a nice guy in party but if a calculate the amount of work they caused me in over a 100 lives, i can totally understand less nice people avoiding first lifers.

as for those people,
if you can't handle the content go run normal.
There are a few i would trust on a first life build in elite settings but the rest of those self entitled wastes of a party slot should avoid elite lfm's.
Go earn that right the same we we did, go grind gear/past lives, you're not entitled to a elite completion, you're expected to contribute to it.

[nayozz]

"if this tool I'm grouped with dies I lose EXP"
I just had to lift this out.

i run tr lives on a weekly basis, i notice people scanning for names like my toons sending tells when i come online, hoping to mooch of a few quest completions out of me.

ouch not a good way to see things :P

i both receive tells and send tells to people, when they go online... both for quests and raids
i do not see it as a bad thing... when i catch a tr zerg, i try to complete quests with him before he outpace me...

usually i split and while he does the main quest i try to complete an optional. (usually i am able to complete b4 he finish, except on EE quests)

when people send me a tell, i judge their power level and create mini groups... so if i see all strong i don't say a thing...
if i see all weaks and 1 strong or medium... i divide party with me + 1 weak v.s. the rest and assign them a task, usually if quest is simmetrical 4 weak people are expected to do what 1 strong + sidekick does.

if i encounter 4 strong + 2 weak i usually make the 2 weaks follow each a veteran to learn a piece of the quest and support veteran

if someone dies alot i give him tasks who do not require fighting.. like collecting stuff (certain quests require collection of items...) or just keep them guarding a base, a spot... with help of 1 strong fighter + 1 healer.

-------

for raids i seek people putting EE raids or EH raids for favor gain, when i organize raids i usually accept anyone... (although i do the easy raids, which i know, and which do not require all party of twinked people.)

i usually am not ****ed off for menial things as deaths... i get "distressed" when people do not listen or read "critical orders" (those that can stall or fail a quest) like killing too early the miniboss in shroud part 2...
i both call their name, write in party chat and send tell to tell to STOP IT... till they stop, and reminds them not to do it. and why they shouldn't do it.

If i see a player is a liability i may even ask to stay in a secluded place while rest of party does a risky task.... like end fight in sleeping dust lie with 2 or 3 spiders already dead, and the troublemaker being the one who killed them by accident.

[stoerm]

Double thumbs up.

An MMO is a giant social experiment as much as a game. Let's see how it turns out, but it looks like some improvements are on the way.

[TheOnly_LightInDark]

If you are fixing XP to encourage more people to group then please fix this.

I would run entire lives with public grouping on if I didn't have to alter it every quest to set the level in line with BB.

[Silverleafeon]

If you are fixing XP to encourage more people to group then please fix this.

I would run entire lives with public grouping on if I didn't have to alter it every quest to set the level in line with BB.

+1
This!

There are several things wrong with current auto levels on a new LMF

• It sets the level spread of the group at 4, this makes some party members receive a penalty automatically. I don't feel this is good at all.
  
  
• It sets the grouping above the current leader. I don't feel this is good at all either.
  
  
• It set the grouping above normal bravery. I don't feel this is good at all.
  
  
• It forces the leader to spend more time setting up an lfm when they are busy enough scouting ahead in quest/wilderness and clearing trash.
  
  
• Any one, including new players are immediately classified as nobs when they don't change the levels.
  
  
• Players who don't change the levels have their grouping ignored, thus discouraging grouping.

[b]Politely ask if possible for an immediate consideration to change this.

[Silverleafeon]

If you are fixing XP to encourage more people to group then please fix this.

I would run entire lives with public grouping on if I didn't have to alter it every quest to set the level in line with BB.

I like this idea and think it is extremely important to spend a few days to permanently fix.