Upcoming Experience Changes

[Enderoc]

I think bravery bonus streaks should just be done away with personally and keep with the concept...added players adding more challenge adds more experience for quest completions on hard/elite...where the champ spawns become more lethal as the party grows. Maybe even include extra xp for number of champs killed in the end.

[Impaqt]

no no no...

So it will be very seldom used and it wont solve the problem. I see this Most often used by established friends who want to run with each other but are enough levels apart that they would break one of their streaks... I can see it used occasionally when someone wants to run a level 10 quest (to finish it's arc or get flagged say) when he's accidentally leveled to 13 without realizing he still hadn't run it.

a level 13 in a l10 quest does not get any streaks nor does he break any streaks.

u know, i prolly won't use it, but i must say

you
are
a
genious

indeed, great idea, must say

it allows me, to, for example run citw in non ee my 1st time every life

sad thing i don't use to run raids

but it's a great idea

CitW is a L24 quest. all you need is ONE L27 or 28 in the group and BB does NOT apply. You do NOT get the bonus. You do not break your streak.

DEVS. do you see this?

Systems should NOT be in the game for 2+ years and still remain a mystery to folks.

[DrawingGuy]

Really, I do like these changes. I stopped caring about the XP loss from a death a long time ago - fun/socializing > XP per min, even after 90 lives. The thing is, I know death bother people. I still have people that will apologize profusely for a death, had people leave party over a death, and know people even in my guild that won't join more difficult content because of fearing of being a "burden". That death affecting no one else goes a long way to helping alleviate that.

One thing that I do have to say: don't be afraid of "penalizing" solo XP by giving group XP. Unless we bring back the days of content requiring trappers, healers, tankers, etc as you'll die a horrible death otherwise (which in the current game is not possible as content that challenges certain meta builds will obliterate most other builds breaking the game), parties need to be incentivized other ways. XP is a good way to do that.

I solo all the time. I put up LFMs for everything I do, but they don't always fill. Not because no one in that level range is online - just no one that range needs a party. Always a bit ironic to pop open the player list and see another player or two in the same quest I am, but they didn't hit my LFM or put one up themselves because they can already solo the quest, and bringing someone along gains them nothing but possibly making the quest harder game mechanic wise. There's already plenty of XP in the game now - there is absolutely no reason a soloist should struggle getting to cap. Their choice will became solo and play at the same level without waiting for other players, or play with others and have it easier, though they may have some wait times. If more people want to party, those wait times would likely go down.

[FranOhmsford]

CitW is a L24 quest. all you need is ONE L27 or 28 in the group and BB does NOT apply. You do NOT get the bonus. You do not break your streak.

DEVS. do you see this?

Systems should NOT be in the game for 2+ years and still remain a mystery to folks.

Really?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Bravery_Bonus

For Epic (base level 21 and higher) quests;
The spread between quest level and character level is increased by two, so the highest character level in the party cannot be greater than 4 levels above the base level of the quest.
This means a lvl 21 epic quest will allow bravery bonus for groups where no character is above lvl 25.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Caught_in_the_Web

is Base level 24 so you'd need a Lvl 29 in Party to not break streak!

[Captain_Wizbang]

The game just doesn't feel like a large world, especially compared to other MMOs. If you did more to improve the scope of the place and added in low and mid level adventures in all of the various areas, you would catch a lot of new people.

I hear what you're saying BUT.....This game is based in Eberron, And in particular Stormreach. They've added Korthos (as lack-luster as it is) And have redone the harbor 3 times now.
Creating another starting point is a good idea, but not in some other setting.
If there is ANY other setting for character creation and new low level content, it should be Faerun.

We had a long time ago, training halls on an island. And they were kind of cool, but the game evolved past them. We then had the 3 starting quests in what is now Inspired Quarter, and again, the game evolved past that. Then Korthos Island.

So as you can see the concept is to get new players familiar with the area you'll be playing in. If they develop past Stormreach for new players then I feel we will give a wrong impression of what lies ahead.

I do agree, we need an upgrade for new player intro, but keep it where it belongs.

As for ANOTHER reference to "other MMOs" I for one wish people would stop doing that. It serves no purpose on THESE forums.


NOW let's put this thread back on track. The devs are making some great changes.

The BB toggle is great. In fact Im behind most of the proposed changes. And am looking forward to how they are fine-tuned.
Thank Sev and the devs for interaction on A LOT of threads and ideas and proposed changes. Very refreshing.

[Enderoc]

New lower level content should be added and be made more challenging...so when you TR you can have incentive to group and involve new players too. I think it should be level 4-7 range though as you want new players to start having at least some familiarity. The new challenging quests should have champion crown icons to mark them on the maps. And to be honest...we should open everything under 10th level to ftp. The ftp crowd should still have a hard grind to 20 in hamster wheeling it. Any quest above 10 before that was in the previous package deals should remain closed...even if you open those areas to the public. The quests should be closed, not the areas they are in...in any case. And for those scrapping by, maybe have the options to sell some quests individually higher than they would be if the package deal was broken down.

[Singular]

Excellent changes, well thought out. Thank you for listening to the community!

[Singular]

1. theres another nail towards less reasons for teamwork in a group.

Totally the opposite - now people won't be punished for grouping with new players and people playing flavor builds.

Sorry its terrible and more dumbing down, the loss of the bonus was to encourage teamwork. I cant say I care for it at all

Ridiculous - we've been asking for these changes for 5 years or more. They should have been put in place a long time ago - would have prevented all kinds of nerd rage and bad feelings in game. It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay past time they implemented them!

[Qhualor]

Totally the opposite - now people won't be punished for grouping with new players and people playing flavor builds.

punished for playing with new players? what about vets? I never looked at not getting such a small amount of xp for someone dying as being punished. death happens to all. nobody in this game is invincible.

[Steiner-Davion]

Based on player feedback we are implementing some experience changes.

~ The Flawless bonus to experience now only counts your character's deaths instead of the entire party. This means if you invite someone less familiar with the content to your group and they die you won't lose your XP bonus unless you also die.

~ Henchman deaths no longer reduce the flawless XP penalty.

~ There is now an NPC in the Hall of Heroes that will suppress your Bravery Streak and associated bonuses. While suppressed you can go off and do content on lower difficulties without ruining your streak. This allows you to group with friends, or join pick up groups, or even do new content on lower difficulty settings without ruining your bravery streak. Note that while suppressed bravery streaks are not ended, but you don't get associated bravery bonuses.

We also have some special events coming up to reward grouping.

~ We are working on an additional DDO bonus days event that will award a percentage bonus on completion XP for each additional person in your dungeon group. This will not affect raids.

~ We are working on an additional DDO bonus days event that will award a percentage bonus on completion XP for each additional person in your raid group. This will not affect dungeons.

Sev~

All sounds good and while you are at it can you fix the Shroud so that the quest story driven deaths between parts 4 and 5 do not cause you to loose the XP bonus for not dying please!

[Faltout]

CitW is a L24 quest. all you need is ONE L27 or 28 in the group and BB does NOT apply. You do NOT get the bonus. You do not break your streak.

DEVS. do you see this?

Systems should NOT be in the game for 2+ years and still remain a mystery to folks.

Really?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Bravery_Bonus



http://ddowiki.com/page/Caught_in_the_Web

is Base level 24 so you'd need a Lvl 29 in Party to not break streak!

lol.
His point still stands though. The BB system still remains a mystery to him.

On, topic: Any answer from the devs about what happens when you get BB back? Are you able to run the quests again on elite and get BB bonus?

[IronClan]

These are all very good points



Uh what?

If you run a Lvl 10 quest at 13 it won't break your streak anyway!

If your friends are too high for BB then again neither your nor your friends streaks will be broken!

I will give a couple of examples though where I see this being used:

1) Iconics and Stoned Characters going into Epics who don't want to have to go back and farm out the Heroic versions on Elite first so they don't break their streaks when running EN.

2) Many Epic Players who want to run mainly ENs but keep their streak intact for the inevitable TR.

3) End-Game content {Raids} that's mainly run on EN - You can't run it on EN or EH because it would break your streak, You can't run it on EE because you're not capable of leading and there's never any groups up!
I read in in-game chat today that one player would be happy with this change because he's never run MoD because it would break his streak and now he can!

You're right I had a brain fart thinking the higher level player would break the lower level players streak when all it would do is disable BB... On the other hand this is another area where it wont help: getting people to join an LFM of any setting that wont give them BB because the level range it too high... this remains a grouping detriment. I agree with 1 and 3 being useful ways to use the proposed change, I'd just like to see a more courageous change and less of a clunky half measure. As far as #2 goes I just can't see someone doing 21 through 28 hitting the hall or guild ship between every quest, I imagine only the most OCD would do this especially when all it really does it give you BB for the first few Korthos or harbor quests which amounts to peanuts.

[Faltout]

The point about people not running EE raids because of streak is true. However, that was an incentive to put an EE LFM for the raid. I've joined many EE CitW with people in them that said "gotta preserve that streak". I hope that this will not eliminate any EE LFMs still out there.

As a side note, the streak size also has bragging uses. When a player joins the EE MoD raid and tells you that the streak is 1000+, then you definately feel that he deserves it and that he will be a useful player and that he will not give up and that he enjoys a challenge. With this change, streaks will never be lost again. Either remove the streak counter, or keep the current counter with the current rules and detach the xp bonus from it. (have 2 separate systems: 1 for the true bravery streak and 1 for the xp bonus).

[IronClan]

CitW is a L24 quest. all you need is ONE L27 or 28 in the group and BB does NOT apply. You do NOT get the bonus. You do not break your streak.

DEVS. do you see this?

Systems should NOT be in the game for 2+ years and still remain a mystery to folks.

Indeed!

http://ddowiki.com/page/Caught_in_the_Web

is Base level 24 so you'd need a Lvl 29 in Party to not break streak!

I think it's fair to say that many people are still confused about how BB really works I don't feel too bad for getting it wrong (I mean I did know that being overlevel suppresses BB for everyone in the quest that would be hard to not know, I just didn't catch it when I was trying to think of a scenario where this new suppression mechanic would be useful). I will straight out admit that if you asked me what level overlevel you need to have in party to suppress BB in FoT or CitW I would have had to go wiki it to have a clue. Hell I'm not even sure your correction of Impaqt is correct but I'm willing to take your/wiki's word for it

Be careful correcting people on the DDO forums there's always someone who's willing to fact check the wiki lol.

[Silverleafeon]

Temple of the Deathwyrm
Heroic level: None
Epic level: 30

• I think we all can agree that the shadow Phlogs from Deathwyrm are close to essential for an end game build.
  
  
• I think we all can agree that a typical pug group of random players will be extremely challenged to finish this raid on EE.
  
  
• I think we all can agree that until the level cap goes well above the proposed level 30 during 2015, this raid will smash bravery bonus status to zero.
  
  
• I think we all can agree that the new suppression NPC will preserve bravery bonus streaks.
  
  
• I think we all can agree the Epic Shroud is likely to be a Level 30, 31, or higher raid.

[Impaqt]

lol.
His point still stands though. The BB system still remains a mystery to him.

On, topic: Any answer from the devs about what happens when you get BB back? Are you able to run the quests again on elite and get BB bonus?

Indeed it does... I didnt even realize Epic was different than Heroic. So often we hear they cant change things like this between the 2 levels...

[Uska]

I hear what you're saying BUT.....This game is based in Eberron, And in particular Stormreach. They've added Korthos (as lack-luster as it is) And have redone the harbor 3 times now.
Creating another starting point is a good idea, but not in some other setting.
If there is ANY other setting for character creation and new low level content, it should be Faerun.

We had a long time ago, training halls on an island. And they were kind of cool, but the game evolved past them. We then had the 3 starting quests in what is now Inspired Quarter, and again, the game evolved past that. Then Korthos Island.

So as you can see the concept is to get new players familiar with the area you'll be playing in. If they develop past Stormreach for new players then I feel we will give a wrong impression of what lies ahead.

I do agree, we need an upgrade for new player intro, but keep it where it belongs.

As for ANOTHER reference to "other MMOs" I for one wish people would stop doing that. It serves no purpose on THESE forums.


NOW let's put this thread back on track. The devs are making some great changes.

The BB toggle is great. In fact Im behind most of the proposed changes. And am looking forward to how they are fine-tuned.
Thank Sev and the devs for interaction on A LOT of threads and ideas and proposed changes. Very refreshing.

Actually if they do another low level setting it should be the Village of the Hommlet which is the original low level area

[Silverleafeon]

On, topic: Any answer from the devs about what happens when you get BB back? Are you able to run the quests again on elite and get BB bonus?

~ There is now an NPC in the Hall of Heroes that will suppress your Bravery Streak and associated bonuses. While suppressed you can go off and do content on lower difficulties without ruining your streak. This allows you to group with friends, or join pick up groups, or even do new content on lower difficulty settings without ruining your bravery streak. Note that while suppressed bravery streaks are not ended, but you don't get associated bravery bonuses.

Looking at that, I would have to say, that bravery bonuses are turned off, BUT first time bonuses are not turned off (there is a difference). Since first time bonuses are not turned off, any quest/raid done while Bravery is suppressed would not qualify for Bravery later on, since Bravery requires doing the Quest for the first time during a life.

Obviously this adds to the slightly problematic Epic Reincarnation situation which eventually consumes all your first time bonuses per difficulty along with your Bravery (first time doing quest) bonuses.

However I could be wrong, but it appears to me, suppression simply freezes the streak itself and turns off the bravery bonuses (not the first time per difficulty bonuses), it does not allow one to collect bravery later on as bravery is for the brave first time attempt?

[Silverleafeon]

Actually I still get people asking if I'm going to Window Farm Shadow Crypt every single time I put an LFM up {which is pretty often as I have multiple characters going through TRs}.

Aye, bloody crypt is the same way.

Definately, window farming requested.

Shadow Crypt E/H/N etc. was actually never that popular anyway as it required two or more people to be flagged or have alt accounts ready and waiting to open - The Window Farm requires you to run the same difficulty each time.

Khyber World often had ready made toons just for the purpose of window farming Bloody, Shadow, and whatever the 3rd crypt was. I guess each server differed, and this might no longer be the case at all.

I still get people wanting to run Tempest Spine Hard straight after Elite!
I still get people asking if I'm going to do VoN 3 again even though I've put on the LFM VoN 3/4!

With High XP Quests there'll always be people wanting to run them multiple times!

I'll agree with you on those points.

However the "new farm" is Ex1, Hx1, Nx1, Cx1 and by then people totally lose interest and wander off.
So unlike the "old farm" of Sane Assylum NX11, Hx1, Ex1, Cx1 which became mindlessly numbing.

Also the twist of resetting xp greatly changes the farming scene too.

I think you can agree its not easy to get players to stick around for that Cx1 run nowadays much less the Nx10 after the first Nx1...

[Silverleafeon]

As a side note, the streak size also has bragging uses.

I'll agree with that, which might be why certain other ideas where rejected. Fawn is going to start building hers back up again.

It was so useless having one up until now, as she is a friendly raid leader and is going to run Shadow Dragon for folks whenever she gets near level cap on EN or EH (thereby killing her streak all the time).