Devs, now that warlock is out can you put aside some time to rework thunderforged?

[Kuttamia]

Yes its another thread about thunderforged tier 3 gears too difficult to farm simply because its so hard to get together a group at certain times of the day. Coming from the Asia, its very hard to find enough players to farm the raid multiple times, at most i can put together mabye 2 runs before the party breaks off, and it takes another age to reform the raid party. From experience more people are online during the time when most people in the East gets ready for work. As such, the only time i manage to find people to make groups in a reasonable time is during weekends by staying up late to DDO. Even this was still fine when it came to raids like shroud, as green steels are still significantly more easy to build when compared to thunderforged. Considering the ridiculously low drop rate and the ridiculously high requirement of phlogistons, at my current rate of progression, it will take years before i can unlock tier 3.

What makes it even more difficult is that those people who needs thunderforged tier3 already has it, be it via the massive duping that went on last time, or by legitimate means, very few people needs thunderforged now, so it makes it even more difficult to accomplish this goal.


I hope this raid gets a serious revamp in future.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Switching the phlogs to be BtoA after the raid has been out for a year or more would be a good compromise i think.

[Chauncey1]

Switching the phlogs to be BtoA after the raid has been out for a year or more would be a good compromise i think.

Yup.
It makes no sense to keep them btc at this point.

[Eth]

I still don't get why people struggle with phlogs so much.
It's the ingots that are off. By the time I get 1200 ingots I have over 60 phlogs easily.

I guess most don't care, because duped ingots where available for cheap on the AH for long enough.

Would still like to see 500 ingot option for 20th reward. Would be a choice at least.

[Vanhooger]

I still don't get why people struggle with phlogs so much.
It's the ingots that are off. By the time I get 1200 ingots I have over 60 phlogs easily.

I guess most don't care, because duped ingots where available for cheap on the AH for long enough.

Would still like to see 500 ingot option for 20th reward. Would be a choice at least.

Well not everyone can run EE raid with ease. Some party struggle even on EN, and drop isn't 100% either. You could run 5 en with 0 plog.

[glmfw1]

How about Turbine adding some High Level Quests to Thunderholme that drop the ingredients too. There are enough places where Dungeon Doors could be added and enough different monster types and dungeon varieties in there to make for some varied content.
If drop rates were lower than in the raids (after all, the quest boss would have had to run the raid to get them!) it would offset the natural raid timer delay on getting the ingredients, but people would be able to repeat more often and in regular (rather than raid) parties.
This would mean no reworking of the actual mechanics of creation, but provide new/varied content for people to play and assist when you can't get together a full raid party. My experience in Thunderholme has involved a lot of waiting around to get a party large enough to run the raids - at the lvl they are set, you need a decent sized party, as everyone is below the quest lvl, and that's being based in Europe, allowing me to group (late in the evening) with people from the US who log on early.

[Eth]

Well not everyone can run EE raid with ease. Some party struggle even on EN, and drop isn't 100% either. You could run 5 en with 0 plog.

Droprate on EH seems fairly high though (75%?), while EN seems rather bad.
The difference between EN and EH is marginal. There's no reason to run EN unless never ran it and want to learn it first.

[glmfw1]

I still don't get why people struggle with phlogs so much.
It's the ingots that are off. By the time I get 1200 ingots I have over 60 phlogs easily.

If, like the OP, you struggle to make parties due to time zone, it doesn't matter that you have enough phlogs by the time you have the ingots... it will still have taken 3 years to get there!

[Stinging_Bee]

I still don't get why people struggle with phlogs so much.
It's the ingots that are off. By the time I get 1200 ingots I have over 60 phlogs easily.

I guess most don't care, because duped ingots where available for cheap on the AH for long enough.

Would still like to see 500 ingot option for 20th reward. Would be a choice at least.

Very good idea

[Eth]

If, like the OP, you struggle to make parties due to time zone, it doesn't matter that you have enough phlogs by the time you have the ingots... it will still have taken 3 years to get there!

Huh? Yes, excactly...
I'm not disagreeing with OP. It takes 50+ runs either way to get all the ingrediences, but I don't see how only changing the phlogs bind status would help.
Ingot droprate is just as bad and needs to be tackled.

[JOTMON]

Switching the phlogs to be BtoA after the raid has been out for a year or more would be a good compromise i think.

This would work..


Would also like to see extra Raid end chests based on difficulty.. Normal 1 chest, hard 2 chests, elite 3 chests.. Raid chests not those side junk loot chests..
There is little to no motivation to challenge hardest level difficulty since the rewards don't tier relative to difficulty.
It really pushes the game to just grind normal for easy completions and incremental 20's end reward list vs challenging higher difficulty for better raid rewards.

EE runs takes teamwork, resources and twice as long if not longer to complete with a higher risk of failure.
EN runs start with whatever is in .. biggest difficulty here is stopping people from jumping into the shrine room and locking out stragglers.

[Pnumbra]

I agree in general with the OP. In my experience as a relatively new player, three failed attempts to do the raid on EN. I haven't seen any LFM for either of the TF raids in the past three months. Accordingly, I cannot achieve the required ingredients for tier 3 gear. Being flagged is kind of frustrating since that is as far as I might get. As one poster stated, creating side room encounters would be a good way to solve the issue. Why not have post flagging encounters that allow players an alternate method to gathering Plogs. Make the encounters solo only; the reverse of a raid. Now each player must do the hard work themselves. No one gets slighted or can feel some players didn't earn their gear.

[Lanadazia]

I hope this raid gets a serious revamp in future.

the crafting system does, not the raids themselfes
30 phlogs is just too much, especially since the endlist only offers 10 (or 20?) and (if you're lucky!) you drop 10-12 in 20 runs so..
its not even guranteed, that you get a full weapon after 20 runs (that are hard to come by lately)
making the phlogs BtA would help alot and lowering the phlogs needed to 20 or 15 would be good aswell
(maybe offer a stack of needed phlogs in the endlist aswell, since other raids offer complete weapons already, but the thunderholme ones)
that you have no complete weapon after 20 runs is just not feeling right, especially if that reward list is so small and you always have a 100% chance to drop phlogs/items

[Full_Bleed]

I'd love to see some alternate ways to get phlogs.

At least with Ingots we can buy and trade for them them.


I would also like to see Blinding Fear fixed.

[axel15810]

Well not everyone can run EE raid with ease. Some party struggle even on EN, and drop isn't 100% either. You could run 5 en with 0 plog.

I agree, I have always thought the phlog drop rates were too low. The right drop rates in my opinion are:

EN: 1 phlog
EH: 1d2 phlog
EE: 2 phlogs

It's so soulcrushing to go through that whole long raid and make zero progress toward your goal (aside from getting closer to 20th list). The grind for T3 is too long. 20 normal runs plus taking reward on 20th to get one weapon fully crafted seems fair. 25 EE runs plus taking 20th phlog reward to craft 2 weapons seems fair as well.

We're still talking 40 normal runs minimum to craft 2 weapons. And longer for all if you decide to take gear on one of the 20th lists instead of 10 phlogs.

But I don't think finding a party is all that difficult these days. LFMs for Deathwyrm on Thelanis tend to fill pretty quickly even today. Seems like more people started running it after they made significant progress on the lagwipe issues.

[Eth]

25 EE runs plus taking 20th phlog reward to craft 2 weapons seems fair as well.

Nope. 25 EE runs only gets you enough ingots to craft... well, half a tier 3.
See here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...id-completions

I currently have over 100 fire phlogs spare and about 60 shadow phlogs.
...and I have about 1000 ingots combined, so can't use any of them. Go figure.

[Vanhooger]

Nope. 25 EE runs only gets you enough ingots to craft... well, half a tier 3.
See here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...id-completions

I currently have over 100 fire phlogs spare and about 60 shadow phlogs.
...and I have about 1000 ingots combined, so can't use any of them. Go figure.

We need way more ingots in chest & plog Bta, so people will start running it on multiple alt.

[FestusHood]

I still don't get why people struggle with phlogs so much.
It's the ingots that are off. By the time I get 1200 ingots I have over 60 phlogs easily.

I guess most don't care, because duped ingots where available for cheap on the AH for long enough.

Would still like to see 500 ingot option for 20th reward. Would be a choice at least.

The ingots can be gotten pretty easily from the explorer area. I've gotten over 1000 from there myself.

For people like my many casual friends in the channel i play in, the difference between epic normal and epic hard in high level raids is quite noticeable.

[axel15810]

Nope. 25 EE runs only gets you enough ingots to craft... well, half a tier 3.
See here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...id-completions

I currently have over 100 fire phlogs spare and about 60 shadow phlogs.
...and I have about 1000 ingots combined, so can't use any of them. Go figure.

I was referring to phlogs only. Like above poster said, I think the explorer area is your best bet for ingots. Get a full group, plenty of people are willing to run for XP only and pass them.

[Eth]

I was referring to phlogs only. Like above poster said, I think the explorer area is your best bet for ingots.
Get a full group, plenty of people are willing to run for XP only and pass them.

You must be kidding me. Arguing a drop rate is balanced when I run it in a 12 man group where everyone is willing to pass me their stuff?
I guess absolutely every droprate in the game is is balanced then.
There is no problem with phlogs either. What are you talking about? Just ask the other 11 to pass them theirs. They can have some XP.

I gave you some statistics. The numbers are there. Give me yours if you mind. The ingot droprate is to low.

Farming explorer is absolutely not worth it, stop bringing up that nonsense. I tried it. A lot. It's absolutely worthless. Average drop is 3 or 4 ingots. Rares are not guaranteed, even just finding all the rares takes forever in such a huge area and those chests can only be looted 8 times a week per toon like any other chest.
You are always better off doing the raids for ingots.

I don't get why people deny this. I really don't.
You need 40 ingots for every phlog to even out when crafting. That's how the droprate should be balanced. It's not (especially when you can get 10 phlogs as 20th reward, but no ingots).
I'm all for raising phlog droprates, because I think generally it's dumb that you need 50 runs to complete a single item.
But phlog increase alone doesn't do it.