Radiant Servant way too expensive!

[FranOhmsford]

I decent cleric will clear rooms with turning in heroics.

You know...This is what really gets me down about TU and the Devs refusal to buff it {even going so far as to remove random gen Sacred gear from the game!

A Cleric can absolutely annihilate Delera's Graveyard, Necro 1/2/3, The Catacombs etc. BUT SO CAN A SORC, SO CAN A WIZARD, SO CAN A CLEAVING BARB/FTR OR PALADIN, SO CAN AN ARTI!
Heck pretty much every class these days can blast through this content even on E-BB with ease given some player experience behind the screen!

And those other Classes can do exactly the same thing everywhere else too but the Cleric? No she had to gimp her DCs to get her Turns up!


That same Cleric could have taken the FvS route in the higher level quests and dropped BBs as she went - Maybe a few less mobs killed but the result is the same!


TU is not infinite - Even with regenning Turns you run out regularly - Don't tell me that Sorcs, Wizards and Artis have to rely on their SPs either as Mnem Pots have actually made those Infinite!

[MonadRebelion]

People will tell you that TU is "viable" in EEs - It just requires insane Builds {Maxed Cha}, Gear {+6 or higher Tomes!} and Multiple Cleric Past Lives!
Unfortunately viability is subjective and I don't really consider that high a requirement should be necessary simply for "viable"! Viable does not = Works every single time!

Anyone who says turning is viable in EEs is either just posturing or showing that are aren't competent judges. By totally maxing you abilities you and gear you can turn a maximum of two ghostly kobolds at a time in 3BC. Anything higher level than that and you're S.O.L. Casting undeath to death and implosion in EE is way more effective at killing undead than turning. Undead are actually quite weak against implosion. Evocation DCs in the mid 60s will clear mobs of undead in EE orchard.

[FranOhmsford]

You have an unusual "must have" list. I would never even consider taking the following on a cleric:

Improved Turning
Extra Turning
Extend
Augment Summoning
Toughness

Also, caster clerics wouldn't take Improved Crit.

That still leaves choices to be made, and typically I end up dropping the mental toughness line.

Augment Summoning, Toughness and Imp Crit were not on the "must have" list!
They were on the secondary list of Feats that are nice to have but thanks to Cleric's being so heavily Feat starved very hard to take!

Imp Crit was there specifically because a Melee Cleric WILL take it!
I know full well that a Caster Cleric won't but neither will a Melee Cleric take Gtr Spell Foci or Empower!

Your suggestion for changing the cleric past life from conjuration +1 to necromancy +1 has me swooning with how awesome that would be. Consider me /signed on that one.

I don't understand why Conju which is mainly good for Ice and Acid Savants is the Cleric Past Life!
It's not like we need Heal to get through Saves!

Necro would make far more sense and the only reason I can think of for it not to be in there is that PMs will obviously be farming out Cleric lives instantly if it ever does get put in!

Though with today's DC requirements it really is time to start providing more ways to get a viable DC than "Oh sorry...Max it or go home"!
Allowing Max DC Casters to drop a couple of points {maybe a Feat, maybe an Enhancement, maybe a gear item} so as to fit in something else shouldn't be a problem.

[FranOhmsford]

Anyone who says turning is viable in EEs is either just posturing or showing that are aren't competent judges. By totally maxing you abilities you and gear you can turn a maximum of two ghostly kobolds at a time in 3BC. Anything higher level than that and you're S.O.L. Casting undeath to death and implosion in EE is way more effective at killing undead than turning. Undead are actually quite weak against implosion. Evocation DCs in the mid 60s will clear mobs of undead in EE orchard.

Um...One question - I can't find my Implosion DC? It doesn't show up on the mouse over!

How do I work that out?

[MonadRebelion]

Um...One question - I can't find my Implosion DC? It doesn't show up on the mouse over!

How do I work that out?

It's evocation so just use Blade Barrier as a reference.

[FranOhmsford]

No. Just no. You can Turn for example orange named skelly in Reclaiming Memories on elite, and you don't have to be charisma build.
Doesn't matter either way, fvs or cleric is one of the strongest heroics classes, cleric even more so - BB at 11, Destruction at 13, Implo at 17. Plus DP, Slay Living and Undead to death. You have 35 - 40 DC in your primary school in GH these days - and no fail DCs until the heroic cap basically. BB aoe ticks for 300 - 1000.
I have made some ( not so good quality ) vids of heroic fvs if you are maybe interested - it's basically the same thing as cleric here.
There's no stronger heroic zerger except savant and new warlock, imho. But we all like playing different classes of course. Some people seem to really loathe cleric hehe.

1) That Orange named Giant Skelly in IQ2 is DEATHWARDED! Turn doesn't work on him at all!

2) BB for 1000 per tick? I doubt I get 100!
Heck most of the time it does nothing - Just Evade, Evade, Evade!

3) Destruction is nice, So is Implosion but oh no...Those are two different spell foci! No way can Clerics afford to spend FOUR Feats in Spell Foci!

4) I'm no Zerger, Never have been and Never will be. But running through the quest dropping BBs behind you maybe faster than a Cleaving Barb/Pally or a Kiting Arti/Ranger but Stronger? No!
Fast does not = Strong!

There are only two good things in RS - aura and Sovereignity. And it's usually totally not worth it to spend 30 points for aura - which is nice but more a luxury than practical ability. I never take the aura on caster.

I wouldn't ever spend points on Sovereignty if there was anything else I could take to get to Aura - I rarely ever even need to use the Feat {Yes I usually go Sov Host} - It's an Oh Sugar button that is frankly unnecessary!

Aura however I consider to be a Must!

Cleric past life - 1 to Conjuration is pretty good. Either for Web for arcanes or 50 - 55 DC Cometfall which is THE BEST spell to deal with EE drow at level with a party.

Cometfall? ONE SPELL! {Heck add Deific Vengeance in there too!}.

A Spell that for some reason is not on the Divine Disciple SLA list and therefore costs an absolute fortune to cast!

A Cleric Past Life should actually benefit Clerics {and other Divines} more than it benefits Wizards and Sorcs! {The Turn Boosts are nice yes but until TU is actually truly viable in ALL content that's not really enough!}.

[FranOhmsford]

It's evocation so just use Blade Barrier as a reference.

Well considering my BBs get Evades all over the place but my Implosion works OK I'm a bit lairy of that reference.

[MonadRebelion]

Cometfall which is THE BEST spell to deal with EE drow at level with a party.

I prefer Order's Wrath

[SirValentine]

Here's what I consider to be an absolute must on any Pure Cleric or a mini splash 17/3, 18/2, 19/1:
Improved Turning
Extra Turning
Empower Healing
Heighten
Quicken
Mental Toughness
Extend

Of the 7 you have listed there, I only used 2 on my Cleric. In my view, most of those are junk, not must-haves. I didn't miss them at all, and wouldn't get much use out of them even if they were given free.

And a non-DC-caster build wouldn't even need Heighten.

Worst of all Cleric Past Lives give +1 Conjuration DC per and exactly what Cleric Spells does that help?

One of the best caster past lives! That helps your crowd control. Plus the extras that only help you back on Cleric or Paladin.

You can't even build up your Cleric by running Cleric past lives because what you actually need is Wizard, FvS and Sorc Past Lives!

Wait...you're trying to claim "Extra Turning" is a must-have feat, and at the same time claiming Cleric past lives are not useful to Clerics? Have you read the benefits of the Cleric past life feat?

[SirValentine]

It's not like we need Heal to get through Saves!

Sure we do, or least did. In Heroics, anyway, it used to be reasonable to use Heal to damage an enemy, before the multiple nerfs.

I'm still ticked that the devs nerfed Heal's DC & spell power.

[FranOhmsford]

Sure we do, or least did. In Heroics, anyway, it used to be reasonable to use Heal to damage an enemy, before the multiple nerfs.

I'm still ticked that the devs nerfed Heal's DC & spell power.

Don't you see that the above statements are directly contradictory?

If Undead take so little damage even when Heal actually hits them and knowing the cost of a Max/Emped/Heightened Heal what's the point in building for it to do dmg in the first place?

If the Devs hadn't nerfed Positive dmg vs Undead I could see the point of Conju DCs {maybe not as much as say NECRO! or Abjuration} but yeah I could see the point.
However: For TWO Spells: Cometfall which is good but expensive and Deific Vengeance which is atrocious. Really?

And a non-DC-caster build wouldn't even need Heighten.

A Non-DC Caster build needs Heighten just as much unless he/she's willing to completely ignore DC Spells entirely!

One of the best caster past lives! That helps your crowd control. Plus the extras that only help you back on Cleric or Paladin.



Wait...you're trying to claim "Extra Turning" is a must-have feat, and at the same time claiming Cleric past lives are not useful to Clerics? Have you read the benefits of the Cleric past life feat?

I've stated already that until TU gets a buff going thru 3 Cleric Past lives is more work than I'm willing to put in!
There's a big difference between taking a Feat and spending MONTHS playing thru 3 Cleric lives! {OK maybe I could do it faster but that means ignoring the rest of my characters who I have far more fun playing!}.

[Hoglum]

Well considering my BBs get Evades all over the place but my Implosion works OK I'm a bit lairy of that reference.

Implosion forces a fortitude save while blade barrier forces reflex. Your DC's are the same though assuming you have BB heightened.

Concerning your feat lists you might want to move max & empower to the must haves and the 2 turning & extend to secondary. This would help your BB a lot which is effective against much more than just undead.

Edit: max & empower have the added benefit of hopping up your burst which gives big heals and hurts undead.

[FranOhmsford]

Edit: max & empower have the added benefit of hopping up your burst which gives big heals and hurts undead.

TU has a much greater area of effect than Radiant Burst!

As well as being multiple guaranteed kills in low to mid level content whereas Burst rarely gets anything down to Half in Elites even Maxed!

Empower is far too costly for use on Spells {on top of Maximise which is already very costly with a Cleric's SPs} and would only be taken if I was going to be heavily using SLAs from Disciple.

[Enoach]

1) That Orange named Giant Skelly in IQ2 is DEATHWARDED! Turn doesn't work on him at all!

Yes, this skeleton is deathwarded, but for the cost of either Dispel Magic or Greater Dispel Magic followed by a Turn Undead can make this fight a blink instead of a long beat down. Sometimes debuff are cheaper approach.

2) BB for 1000 per tick? I doubt I get 100!
Heck most of the time it does nothing - Just Evade, Evade, Evade!

Use blade barrier against the right foe is one of the important aspects of deciding which spell to use. Know your enemy. Also gear for the DC. One trick I employ on my wizard and cleric is to have specific gear items for different schools, I take the time to switch them in before I cast that way I maximize the DC as well as Damage/Critical Chances. The same line that improves Force damage and Critical chance works for blade barrier.

3) Destruction is nice, So is Implosion but oh no...Those are two different spell foci! No way can Clerics afford to spend FOUR Feats in Spell Foci!

You don't need to spend Four Feats in Spell Focus. What you need to do is look into DC gear and switchable gear so you maximize your DC for the spells you are using now.

4) I'm no Zerger, Never have been and Never will be. But running through the quest dropping BBs behind you maybe faster than a Cleaving Barb/Pally or a Kiting Arti/Ranger but Stronger? No!
Fast does not = Strong!

I agree that fast does not equal strong. I've seen a number of these types of situations where all it did was jam up doorways leaving everyone else to clean up the mess.

I wouldn't ever spend points on Sovereignty if there was anything else I could take to get to Aura - I rarely ever even need to use the Feat {Yes I usually go Sov Host} - It's an Oh Sugar button that is frankly unnecessary!

It is a nice ability, I admit that I average using it every 3rd quest. Most of the time I use it on that poor guy that just died for the 5th time because recovering from those death penalties will put him at greater risk.

Aura however I consider to be a Must!

It is a must in your book, I see it as a nice to have but not a must have.

Cometfall? ONE SPELL! {Heck add Deific Vengeance in there too!}.

An interesting note is that clerics have 38 conjuration spells, which is the largest school of spells available to clerics. Necromancy at 26 is the next largest.

Now of the 38 spells 14 have save aspects to them. Note that a large number of these spells are Cure/Healing

Now Necromancy with 26 spells has 22 of them with save aspects. However, you have pointed out earlier that you are not a fan of Harm because of its short range and targeting mechanic. And if you review the forums you would find a lot of comments against these types of spells. Now I'm not in agreement. I actually find these spells useful on my cleric, now they are not my primary DPS but I use them to supplement.

[Edit]
Now Wizards/Sorcerers have 31 Conjuration spells of which only 9 have save aspects
And 35 Necromancy Spells of which 24 have save aspects

Based on this, Conjuration DCs benefit clerics more, switching this to Necromancy would benefit Wizards/Sorcerers more
[/Edit]

A Cleric Past Life should actually benefit Clerics {and other Divines} more than it benefits Wizards and Sorcs! {The Turn Boosts are nice yes but until TU is actually truly viable in ALL content that's not really enough!}.

[/QUOTE]
I would argue that it does benefit a cleric. With a +1DC to a spell school that contains spells they always have (you cannot be a cleric without having these spells available to cast) as well as adding in additional Turn Attempts.

[FranOhmsford]

Yes, this skeleton is deathwarded, but for the cost of either Dispel Magic or Greater Dispel Magic followed by a Turn Undead can make this fight a blink instead of a long beat down. Sometimes debuff are cheaper approach.

Dispel? Seriously? With the CRs of mobs in this game?

That spell is broken!

Use blade barrier against the right foe is one of the important aspects of deciding which spell to use. Know your enemy. Also gear for the DC. One trick I employ on my wizard and cleric is to have specific gear items for different schools, I take the time to switch them in before I cast that way I maximize the DC as well as Damage/Critical Chances. The same line that improves Force damage and Critical chance works for blade barrier.

On a Cleric I'm already using 10 bars by IQ - I have no space on my screen for any more!

You don't need to spend Four Feats in Spell Focus. What you need to do is look into DC gear and switchable gear so you maximize your DC for the spells you are using now.

Even on characters with maxed inv slots I regularly find myself having to sell after every single quest in Epics just to have space for loot from the next one - I can't fit in multiple different sets of DC gear!

It is a nice ability, I admit that I average using it every 3rd quest. Most of the time I use it on that poor guy that just died for the 5th time because recovering from those death penalties will put him at greater risk.

Wow - You're getting a lot of Deaths in your parties?

Or was this simply an exaggeration?

An interesting note is that clerics have 38 conjuration spells, which is the largest school of spells available to clerics. Necromancy at 26 is the next largest.

Now of the 38 spells 14 have save aspects to them. Note that a large number of these spells are Cure/Healing

Now Necromancy with 26 spells has 22 of them with save aspects. However, you have pointed out earlier that you are not a fan of Harm because of its short range and targeting mechanic. And if you review the forums you would find a lot of comments against these types of spells. Now I'm not in agreement. I actually find these spells useful on my cleric, now they are not my primary DPS but I use them to supplement.

[Edit]
Now Wizards/Sorcerers have 31 Conjuration spells of which only 9 have save aspects
And 35 Necromancy Spells of which 24 have save aspects

Based on this, Conjuration DCs benefit clerics more, switching this to Necromancy would benefit Wizards/Sorcerers more
[/Edit]

I would argue that it does benefit a cleric. With a +1DC to a spell school that contains spells they always have (you cannot be a cleric without having these spells available to cast) as well as adding in additional Turn Attempts.

Most of those Cleric Spells as you've stated yourself don't really have any requirement for DCs to be in any way maxed - Cure Spells being used on Undead when we have TU, Radiant Burst/Aura, Undeath to Death and indeed MELEE is a major waste of SP!

Whereas you specifiically ignore that it's Acid and Ice Savants who get the most benefit from Conju DCs with multiple Conju spells in their Spam lists!

Wizards yes will get a benefit from a Necro boost - I never said otherwise. However Destruction and Slay Living are 2 of the most heavily used Divine Spells and Undeath to Death as has been pointed out is also utilised heavily so I'd say it's a wash here.
Conju is literally only useful on a Cleric or Soul for Cometfall DCs whereas Necro would be of far more use!


I've already stated that the additional Turn attempts are nice but with TU in the state it's in they don't make up for the other half of the past life benefits being so heavily skewed towards an entirely different class!

[Enoach]

Dispel? Seriously? With the CRs of mobs in this game?

That spell is broken!

I think you miss understand how Dispel Magic works. Its DC is based off the Caster Level of both the dispeller and the original caster.

Dispel Magic is a d20 + Caster Level (Max 10) vs DC 11 + caster level
Greater is a d20 + Caster Level (Max 20) vs DC 11 + caster level

I've used Dispel Magic with my Paladin and Used Turns to stun this giant. With my cleric I primarily use Greater Dispel Magic followed by a Turn Undead and at this time running these quests at level on Elite I have not failed. So I don't believe the DC is as high as you think it is, might actually be good if you check this out for yourself to judge it instead of simply writing it off.

On a Cleric I'm already using 10 bars by IQ - I have no space on my screen for any more!

This is a play style choice, I was simply offering advice on how to maximize your DCs by not being dependent on a single gear setup. Also There are Hotkeys you can setup to cycle your Weapon Sets, those don't require Hotbars

Even on characters with maxed inv slots I regularly find myself having to sell after every single quest in Epics just to have space for loot from the next one - I can't fit in multiple different sets of DC gear!

I use to be this way as well, until I started to review exactly what I carry and why. After an assessment most of my characters are up to two free back pack spaces, some 3 or 4. But this does require some review of what you carry.

Wow - You're getting a lot of Deaths in your parties?

Or was this simply an exaggeration?

Some PuGs can be really fun

I have a saying in my bio on my cleric - "No I won't heal your scratch, but I have no intention of letting you die of anything other then your own stupidity". I also believe everyone should make it to the end of the quest on their own two feet. Sometimes that means raising that person who thinks they are all that and a bag of chips a few times since it does not sink in that maybe they should try something different. I also use this in Raids Like Mark of Death, where sometimes death is hard to avoid, but stacked death penalties would mean that last raise was just signing them up to die again.

Most of those Cleric Spells as you've stated yourself don't really have any requirement for DCs to be in any way maxed - Cure Spells being used on Undead when we have TU, Radiant Burst/Aura, Undeath to Death and indeed MELEE is a major waste of SP!

Whereas you specifiically ignore that it's Acid and Ice Savants who get the most benefit from Conju DCs with multiple Conju spells in their Spam lists!

Wizards yes will get a benefit from a Necro boost - I never said otherwise. However Destruction and Slay Living are 2 of the most heavily used Divine Spells and Undeath to Death as has been pointed out is also utilised heavily so I'd say it's a wash here.
Conju is literally only useful on a Cleric or Soul for Cometfall DCs whereas Necro would be of far more use!

The savant SLAs are basically the same spell on multiple timers, I personally don't count those as separate spells but I could see how some might.

I agree that very few people use cure/healing spells for combat purposes and this is a direct result of the spell power adjustment that Turbine implemented due to the fear that it would make healing too powerful.

Conjuration is useful for Comet Fall & Deific Vengeance (for low levels due to damage cap - good against Undead with Low Will Save)

I've already stated that the additional Turn attempts are nice but with TU in the state it's in they don't make up for the other half of the past life benefits being so heavily skewed towards an entirely different class!

We will have to disagree on the skewed part of your comment.

Lets look at the spells:
Grease
Niac's Cold Ray - Has a damage cap as well as save negates damage
Glitter Dust - static AoE Will save used to negate blindness while in the AoE
Web - Probably the most well known of the conjuration spells - useful with exceptions for CC
Acid Blast - cap at level 10 but still good damage
Stinking Cloud - good cc for living targets
Acid Rain - Good Acid DoT spell
Cloud Kill - Good AoE, has both con and acid damage so very effective - especially if used with Web/Dancing ball to hold stuff inside
Incendiary Cloud - For blindness effect

Now Acid Blast is a Tier 5 Earth savant (5 levels of Sorcerer but must be Character level 12) so this is one additional cast of a spell already available - or the ability to grab a spell so the sorcerer can have a different spell and thus spell depth instead of width. But Earth Savant also has Evocation spells.


The Water Savant has the Cold Ray (Reflex Save = No Damage) at Tier one. All other SLAs appear to be Evocation.

So based on play style for the Wizard and Savant it is possible for them to benefit from more than 2 spells at any given time. Most casters I know do carry web, many of the other spells come down to personal choices (For smart wizards it could mean more choices as they switch spells to be more effective similar to a clerics ability to switch spells to be more effective)


As I see it the Necromancy DC would benefit Wizards/Sorcerers/Druids/Warlocks far more than it would benefit Clerics or FvS for that matter.

[FranOhmsford]

We will have to disagree on the skewed part of your comment.

Lets look at the spells:
Grease
Niac's Cold Ray - Has a damage cap as well as save negates damage
Glitter Dust - static AoE Will save used to negate blindness while in the AoE
Web - Probably the most well known of the conjuration spells - useful with exceptions for CC
Acid Blast - cap at level 10 but still good damage
Stinking Cloud - good cc for living targets
Acid Rain - Good Acid DoT spell
Cloud Kill - Good AoE, has both con and acid damage so very effective - especially if used with Web/Dancing ball to hold stuff inside
Incendiary Cloud - For blindness effect

Now Acid Blast is a Tier 5 Earth savant (5 levels of Sorcerer but must be Character level 12) so this is one additional cast of a spell already available - or the ability to grab a spell so the sorcerer can have a different spell and thus spell depth instead of width. But Earth Savant also has Evocation spells.


The Water Savant has the Cold Ray (Reflex Save = No Damage) at Tier one. All other SLAs appear to be Evocation.

So based on play style for the Wizard and Savant it is possible for them to benefit from more than 2 spells at any given time. Most casters I know do carry web, many of the other spells come down to personal choices (For smart wizards it could mean more choices as they switch spells to be more effective similar to a clerics ability to switch spells to be more effective)


As I see it the Necromancy DC would benefit Wizards/Sorcerers/Druids/Warlocks far more than it would benefit Clerics or FvS for that matter.

1) You've written off one of the strongest low levels spells in the game while talking about the ability to max it's DC - Niac's will fail a lot if not maxed but with 3 Cleric past lives it becomes very strong indeed.

2) You've shown a large number of Conju Spells that Sorcs have access to and that would also benefit from 3 Cleric past lives but you then go on to state that Necro would benefit Arcanes far more than Clerics without mentioning a single Necro spell?

Arcanes = FoD, CoD, Wail, Horrid Wilting
Divines = Destruction, Slay Living, Inflict Mod/Serious Mass, Harm
Both get access to Undeath to Death.

Yes it may very much help PMs but considering the massive variety of options Wizards and Druids have and the lack of options that a Cleric has for dmg dealing I'd say that it would help Clerics more simply by giving them a truly viable Necro option!



On the other hand what I'd really like to see for Divines is a Spell Focus: All feat OR a Divine Specific Boost to Spell DCs that allows them to make full use of their limited spell choices.

[Enoach]

1) You've written off one of the strongest low levels spells in the game while talking about the ability to max it's DC - Niac's will fail a lot if not maxed but with 3 Cleric past lives it becomes very strong indeed.

2) You've shown a large number of Conju Spells that Sorcs have access to and that would also benefit from 3 Cleric past lives but you then go on to state that Necro would benefit Arcanes far more than Clerics without mentioning a single Necro spell?

Arcanes = FoD, CoD, Wail, Horrid Wilting
Divines = Destruction, Slay Living, Inflict Mod/Serious Mass, Harm
Both get access to Undeath to Death.

Yes it may very much help PMs but considering the massive variety of options Wizards and Druids have and the lack of options that a Cleric has for dmg dealing I'd say that it would help Clerics more simply by giving them a truly viable Necro option!



On the other hand what I'd really like to see for Divines is a Spell Focus: All feat OR a Divine Specific Boost to Spell DCs that allows them to make full use of their limited spell choices.

The issue with Niac's is the save = no damage as well as it being capped at 10. For a SLA with cheap cost its good but as a spell it can be dubious in effectiveness

As for the Necromancy spells, I didn't include the Inflict/Harm as I'm sure earlier you made a comment that you don't use these because of the limited range and targeting. So if you remove those from the list you have 3 Cleric to 5 Wizard/Sorcerer spells. Now if you include the Inflict/Harm (which also suffer similar spell power issues as cure/heal) then yes there are more spells available, All with the same targeting/range issue that you seemed to find as a problem earlier in this thread.

It appears you and I have a different approach to Cleric and as such may never find a total agreement.

I think the PL is good as is and has made my cleric stronger, both through the DC's on conjuration as well as the extra turns. I even use the Active Healing Word on a few lives and found it to be a good investment.

However, if you are after a more inclusive feat for all schools, I recommend using the current Wizard Active PL feat as thematically the flexibility of a wizards spell schools this is where Turbine has gone. I have this on my Cleric and take it for the same reason you feel you don't have enough Feats to take one of each Foci.

[SirValentine]

Don't you see that the above statements are directly contradictory?

Nope.

....and knowing the cost of a Max/Emped/Heightened Heal...

You can't use Maximize or Empower on Heal, and never could.

You can no longer use Heighten on Heal. That was one of the nerfs I was talking about.

However: For TWO Spells: Cometfall which is good but expensive and Deific Vengeance which is atrocious. Really?

I never use Deific Vengeance. So, only one. Yes, really.

Why do you think Cometfall is particularly expensive? It's just the standard spell cost for almost all such spells. With Heighten on, it stays the same cost as almost all other CC spells. Hold Person, for example, costs just as much as Cometfall, when both have Heighten applied.

A Non-DC Caster build needs Heighten just as much unless he/she's willing to completely ignore DC Spells entirely!

I don't know what you understand when you see "non-DC" caster, but, yeah, they don't focus on their DCs. That's the point. So, no, they don't need Heighten.

I've stated already that until TU gets a buff going thru 3 Cleric Past lives is more work than I'm willing to put in!
There's a big difference between taking a Feat and spending MONTHS playing thru 3 Cleric lives! {OK maybe I could do it faster but that means ignoring the rest of my characters who I have far more fun playing!}.

Why are you a complaining about what is already one of the more powerful past life feats (STACKING +3 to DCs?!? AND OTHER STUFF!) when YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO GET IT ANYWAY?

If you want +DC to Necro or any school you want, just add Spell Focus to your inexplicable "must have" feat list the same way you already have Extra Turning on there, and the same argument about taking a feat instead of getting past lives applies.

[MonadRebelion]

One thing they could do to make the tree more relevant is make cure spells do damage all enemies, not just undead. Clerics would actually have a reason to be healers if they did that.