Ideas for a new PrE for monks - Zen archer.

[Lemdog]

These are my thoughts and ideas for a new monk PrE when the monk pass rolls along in the somewhat distant future.

Here it is , feel free to disagree, but please do not be blatantly insulting of my work, and if you have to, explain why.

Core 1 - Your point blank shot extra damage is increased from 1(W) to 1.5(W)
Core 3 - +3 ranged and melee power
Core 6 - Your ten thousand stars may be used every 30 seconds instead of every 60 seconds.
Core 12 - Stun on the run - Acts like stunning blow with a ranged weapon - Stun an enemy with your bow or shuriken for up to 7 seconds. DC = 18 + ½ character level + Wisdom Mod. 12 Second Cooldown 1
Core 18- +8 ranged and melee power
Capstone - ‘You are a master of applying your inner strength and peace to a ranged tactical perspective’ +2 wis +2 dex. You gain +4 ranged power and while wielding bows you gain 20% doubleshot and 0.5(W). Your Ki arrows now gain a 5% chance to paralyze enemies with no save. (all 1 ap)

Tier 1
*Quick shot - 2%/5%/7% ranged alacrity. 1/1/1
*Toughness - +5/+10/+15 hitpoints. 1/1/1
*Novice archer - +1/+2/+3 ranged power. 1/1/1
*Bleeding firearms - 33/66/100% chance to apply a stack of bleed on every successful hit with a shuriken or bow. 1/1/1
*Awareness - +1/2/3 to Listen, search, and spot. 1/1/1

Tier 2
*Injuring firearms - +.5/.8/1(W) damage to all types of bows. 1/1/1
*Improved guile - +2 sneak attack die, +5 point blank shot range, +2 ranged power 2
*Apprentice archer - +1/+2/+3 ranged power. 1/1/1
*Shield - Permanently gain the effects of the shield spell - +4 shield bonus to AC , immunity to magic missiles. 2
*Action boost - Melee and ranged power - 10/20/30. Duration: 25 seconds. 1/1/1

Tier 3
*Tactical stun - Reduces Stun on the Run's cooldown from 12 seconds to 8 seconds. 2
*Zen shots - Adds your wisdom to hit for all bows and thrown weapons. 2
*Skillful archer - +1/+2/+3 ranged power. 1/1/1
*Improved shield - Replaces shield and gain the effects of improved shield. +10 PRR and +5 shield bonus to AC and protection from magic missiles. 2
*Ki arrows - Create a stack of 100 returning arrows using Ki. The enchantment bonus starts at +1 at level 1, and increases by 1 every 4 levels. Antirequisite: Conjure arrows from Arcane archer. 1/1/1


Tier 4
*Severe stun on the run - Improves your stun on the run to cause 75% helpless damage instead of 50%. 2
*Greater zen archery - Adds your wisdom mod to damage with bows only . 2
*Master archer - +2/4/6 ranged AND melee power. 2/2/2
*Greater shield - Your shield now grants +20 PRR and +10 MRR. +6 shield bonus to AC and protection from magic missiles.
*Phlebotomizing firearms - Requires tier three of bleeding arrows. Automatically applys full stacks of bleed on an enemy.

Tier 5
*Critical firearms - Requires Stun on the run - +1/2 Critical threat range on all shurikens and arrows. This requires Earth or Fire stance active. 2/2
*Devastating firearms - +1 crit multiplier on all shurikens and arrows. This requires water or air stance. 2
*Ultimate archer - +10 ranged power. 2
*Superior shield - Your shield now grants +30 PRR and +20 MRR. +7 shield bonus to AC and protection from most force damage.
*Tensers Transformation (SLA). You can cast Tensers transformation as a spell-like-ability using ki. Costs 25 ki. Lasts 1 minute + 5 seconds per monk level. Tensers tranformation : Causes the caster to become a virtual fighting machine becoming stronger, tougher, faster, and more skilled in combat. You gain a +4 alchemical bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +6 alchemical bonus to Armor Class, and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. Your base attack bonus equals your character level. Your spellcasting ability is reduced, resulting in a -2 penalty to all spell DCs, -2 to your rolls to bypass enemy Spell Resistance, and doubling the cooldown of your spells.


Afterthought: I realize this tree may be a little OP at first, and i may make some adjustments to it. I also realize it may be a little too generic. Feel free to comment or give any feedback! This was also made with the intent to use shurikens and bows, but also to use a little bit of melee when the time is right. **Also note this is a very rough draft, if it wasn't already clear.

[TeacherSyn]

Hey, there. Some thoughts:

• Looks like you're made up quite of bit of stuff. As applicable for a live MMO, the devs still tend to use much of the 3.5 D&D feats and skills. Enhancements are similar but often are more made-up for our world. Compare your ideas to a D&D SRD of the 3.5e Zen Archer here.
• Archery is archery. We already have a very capable shuriken-thrower that doesn't require a tree. A Zen Archer core ability should focus on improving the bow or the character's defense, nothing more. No shuriken or melee aid. You could suggest a chance for an extra arrow fired, based on Dexterity or Wisdom bonus. Same for no Melee Power and "Zen Strikes"; that's the subject of the Shintao Monk, which many believe needs love. Like shuriken-throwers, the Zen Archer Monk can go old-school and fight unarmed better than many. It just wouldn't excel in it, and Zen Archers must still choose a philosophy.
• "Conjuring" is an arcane term; ki is not magic. Rather, a ki-based way to make arrows would be interesting. The enhancement bonus is based on Monk levels, +5 maximum, able to create them at tier 3 only so this is requires a commitment to the tree. Perhaps at level 20, the ki-generated stack of arrows have a chance to be Slayer arrows of a random type. Arrows are bound to character, 100% returning, and disappear on logout. Philosophy chosen could decide if ki arrows generated are Good-aligned or have Negative Energy.
• I like the Shield against Magic Missiles idea but this should again be ki-based to fit the theme. Like Primal Avatar's Spirit, it can be a toggle that uses +1 ki per 6 seconds, turning itself off if ki is consumed. It could also give the traditional spell's bonus to AC while active.
• Rather than a form of ranged stunning, the Zen Archer would benefit more with a ki-based type of Pin. Ki amounts at low levels and a 12 second cooldown (a level 18 or 20 core would drop that to 6 seconds) would keep it from being abused. This should be a level 12 core ability and is anti-prerequisite to Pin from Shiradi (can't have both).
• Boosts to Ranged Power per core (say, +2 per first five, +4 on training core 6, with 10% Doubleshot, 20 is overpowered) would be logical. That last core could also add +2 DEX, +2 WIS and +1 passive ki regeneration. Again, no shuriken love; that's already in the Ninja Spy tree.

You probably seen my Zen Archer build, which is a great sniper style that leverages Harper Agent training and is a pure Elven Monk with DEX-to-Damage. I'm about to post the final level 28 build test results shortly, which you'll find in this thread.

[Enderoc]

Monks should be able to reach an enhancement level like elves to open up arcane archer with prerequisite for Zen Archery with a pre-req enhancement that would open when the Zen Archery feat is taken stating it uses wisdom for damage with longbows or shortbows.

If you were to make a new tree...it should be based off water. That would have synergy with both Rangers and Silver flame Clerics/Favored Souls.

A path of harmonious balance...should also be included where instead of a strike that deals damage it increases saves and the chance to deflect arrows every 3 monk levels. There should be ki strikes set with it however but whenever the strike is pressed it should act as a block but animated like a deflection. Thus the balance...both strikes and blocks are incorporated.

[TeacherSyn]

Monks should be able to reach an enhancement level like elves to open up arcane archer with prerequisite for Zen Archery with a pre-req enhancement that would open when the Zen Archery feat is taken stating it uses wisdom for damage with longbows or shortbows.

If you were to make a new tree...it should be based off water. That would have synergy with both Rangers and Silver flame Clerics/Favored Souls.

A path of harmonious balance...should also be included where instead of a strike that deals damage it increases saves and the chance to deflect arrows every 3 monk levels. There should be ki strikes set with it however but whenever the strike is pressed it should act as a block but animated like a deflection. Thus the balance...both strikes and blocks are incorporated.

Going along your idea: Choosing the first Zen Archer core gives longbow proficiency but still requires Zen Archery feat to activate it and thus the tree itself. That removes the feat load I circumvented in my build by going Elf.

The Deflect Arrows with ki strikes doesn't make sense from coding, although I appreciate the idea. Perhaps the ZA tree improves Deflect Arrows rate of deflection with ranks or levels?

I'd rather see the ZA tree have benefits from any Monk stance. Earth Stance already has crit threat range. Ocean Stance should improve Dodge more so, Fire adds Fire damage to arrows and Wind adds Frost. All these graduate in power with more ZA cores, and is managed by a series of enhancements.

A DEX-to-Damage for bows core should kick in at core ability 2 but should have a specific requirement that makes players commit more. We have enough monkchers and I don't want multiclassing option to cause this to be used for more overpowered ability. It would be anti-choiced with Aerenal Grace from Elf

[Lemdog]

Hey, there. Some thoughts:

• Looks like you're made up quite of bit of stuff. As applicable for a live MMO, the devs still tend to use much of the 3.5 D&D feats and skills. Enhancements are similar but often are more made-up for our world. Compare your ideas to a D&D SRD of the 3.5e Zen Archer here.
• Archery is archery. We already have a very capable shuriken-thrower that doesn't require a tree. A Zen Archer core ability should focus on improving the bow or the character's defense, nothing more. No shuriken or melee aid. You could suggest a chance for an extra arrow fired, based on Dexterity or Wisdom bonus. Same for no Melee Power and "Zen Strikes"; that's the subject of the Shintao Monk, which many believe needs love. Like shuriken-throwers, the Zen Archer Monk can go old-school and fight unarmed better than many. It just wouldn't excel in it, and Zen Archers must still choose a philosophy.
• "Conjuring" is an arcane term; ki is not magic. Rather, a ki-based way to make arrows would be interesting. The enhancement bonus is based on Monk levels, +5 maximum, able to create them at tier 3 only so this is requires a commitment to the tree. Perhaps at level 20, the ki-generated stack of arrows have a chance to be Slayer arrows of a random type. Arrows are bound to character, 100% returning, and disappear on logout. Philosophy chosen could decide if ki arrows generated are Good-aligned or have Negative Energy.
• I like the Shield against Magic Missiles idea but this should again be ki-based to fit the theme. Like Primal Avatar's Spirit, it can be a toggle that uses +1 ki per 6 seconds, turning itself off if ki is consumed. It could also give the traditional spell's bonus to AC while active.
• Rather than a form of ranged stunning, the Zen Archer would benefit more with a ki-based type of Pin. Ki amounts at low levels and a 12 second cooldown (a level 18 or 20 core would drop that to 6 seconds) would keep it from being abused. This should be a level 12 core ability and is anti-prerequisite to Pin from Shiradi (can't have both).
• Boosts to Ranged Power per core (say, +2 per first five, +4 on training core 6, with 10% Doubleshot, 20 is overpowered) would be logical. That last core could also add +2 DEX, +2 WIS and +1 passive ki regeneration. Again, no shuriken love; that's already in the Ninja Spy tree.

You probably seen my Zen Archer build, which is a great sniper style that leverages Harper Agent training and is a pure Elven Monk with DEX-to-Damage. I'm about to post the final level 28 build test results shortly, which you'll find in this thread.

Hey Syn, Thanks for the feedback. I will update my Zen archer build accordingly, but there are a few things i would like to keep, like the stun thing. I do also believe Ki could be used as magic through an ability, perhaps through monk levels or from the ZA tree. I really do like your idea on the shield, but ZAs don't regain ki quite as fast, water stance does regen +1 extra ki, i would still like to keep it free though, My thoughts were if you added PRR and MRR to the ZA "Superior shield", they could have a decent boost to survivability, but also able to maintain Ki. My thoughts on "Stun on the run", was that it's something unique that we haven't seen before, and i do think it would be a pretty decent boost to Zen's DPS if you could in theory use pin and a ranged stun ability on seperate CDs. Though i really am considering your idea to add it to the core line.

Thanks for your feedback again!

Earth Stance already has crit threat range.

Earth stance i think on the contrary has +1 multiplier. I would have to check though.

[TeacherSyn]

Hey Syn, Thanks for the feedback. I will update my Zen archer build accordingly, but there are a few things i would like to keep, like the stun thing. I do also believe Ki could be used as magic through an ability, perhaps through monk levels or from the ZA tree. I really do like your idea on the shield, but ZAs don't regain ki quite as fast, water stance does regen +1 extra ki, i would still like to keep it free though, My thoughts were if you added PRR and MRR to the ZA "Superior shield", they could have a decent boost to survivability, but also able to maintain Ki. My thoughts on "Stun on the run", was that it's something unique that we haven't seen before, and i do think it would be a pretty decent boost to Zen's DPS if you could in theory use pin and a ranged stun ability on seperate CDs. Though i really am considering your idea to add it to the core line.

Thanks for your feedback again!

Earth stance i think on the contrary has +1 multiplier. I would have to check though.

It's fun to dream! You're right on Earth Stance. Too many hits to the head; I always get that confused.

[Enderoc]

A multi-stance tree I think would not be in line with the other enhancement trees of monk. Ocean is based on Wisdom, and increases dodge and saves. Zen Archery Uses Wisdom to hit. Catering to one race for a class I think would be out of line with the idea of Zen Archer.

Now if you want a Fists of Fury Monk who stays primarily in Wind Stance...then Dexterity should be the stat it should be attributed to and focusing on a finesse/thrower build mostly.