Confusion & Mass confusion

[Angelic-council]

On any sort of DC caster, +1 DC can mean the difference between a mass hold or an instakill and a bunch of wasted spell points. Logic dictates that anything that gives a bonus to the DC you want to increase is the best way to go.

On a side note, the tier 5 tainted scholar +2 dc ability sort of irritates me. For 3 AP, bard spellsingers get +2 concentration/perform skills, +2 spell penetration, +2 enchantment DC's, and temporary spell points in an aoe around them when they sing songs. Tainted scholar uses the same 3 AP and only gets +2 to the dc of their choice, which doesn't include necromancy (the only real choices being evocation or enchantment if you're going tier 5 scholar, anyway).

Yeah, I would just replace heighten with completionist feat.

I feel your frustration. I think bards are exceptional. Every other class has to spend 2 AP for 1 DC. But warlocks get 2 DC for 3 AP.

[Angelic-council]

Hypnotism, crushing despair and some other no-save debuffs... Secret much ^^

no such debuffs

[Red_Knight]

Eh, the real question is "Which DC type will your warlock go for". Not enough feats for everything. And once you get into epic feats, warlocks may decide they want the epic eldrich blast and epic arcane eldrich blast feats for extra damage dice. Enlightened Spirit warlocks may be going for melee feats too. which again would limit what you can do for spell DC.

[Angelic-council]

Eh, the real question is "Which DC type will your warlock go for". Not enough feats for everything. And once you get into epic feats, warlocks may decide they want the epic eldrich blast and epic arcane eldrich blast feats for extra damage dice. Enlightened Spirit warlocks may be going for melee feats too. which again would limit what you can do for spell DC.

Well, yes. But we are actually talking about confusion and enchantment DC here.

It's not impossible to have both, good DPS and DC. I always believe in player skills. We can have exact same gear and build, but only one of us will shine. Warlocks get limited feat selection, but it's not an issue if you know what you are doing.

Now... no disrespect, but people who want to play a melee warlock can forget about DC casting. It's not possible that melee can compete with pure DC casters. There is just no way... Because you then have to pick melee specific feats and that will ruin everything in the end.

Melee in enlightened spirit and DC casting is such a bad combination.. not sure why you mentioned that

[Red_Knight]

Melee in enlightened spirit and DC casting is such a bad combination.. not sure why you mentioned that

Been experimenting with it. Didn't take any melee feats nor do I use a khopesh of any kind. And with low str it's not like my melee damage is exceptional. But it supplements the eldrich aura, eldrich burst, and spirit blast damage. Although I am eying the elven dex to damage enhancement and wondering if I should get it. Feats are all for SLA damage, evocation DC, and necromancy DC (planned). Oh, and Toughness for more hit points. Seems to work all right. And on Lam a similar build had landed my DC spells fairly regularly on Epic Normal (which I mostly run). At least, they landed regularly when I wasn't fighting drow.

[richieelias27]

Been experimenting with it. Didn't take any melee feats nor do I use a khopesh of any kind. And with low str it's not like my melee damage is exceptional. But it supplements the eldrich aura, eldrich burst, and spirit blast damage. Although I am eying the elven dex to damage enhancement and wondering if I should get it. Feats are all for SLA damage, evocation DC, and necromancy DC (planned). Oh, and Toughness for more hit points. Seems to work all right. And on Lam a similar build had landed my DC spells fairly regularly on Epic Normal (which I mostly run). At least, they landed regularly when I wasn't fighting drow.

I think you may not understand what numbers *true* melee dps can reach, and the feats/Epic Destinies required to get there. Pure Caster Warlock with zero melee feats swinging a stick while running the aura does not even come close, trust me. If you were doing even an 8th of their damage in this scenario, I would be impressed.

It is absolutely possible to make a warlock that can put out some impressive melee dps in addition to the aura, but you need splash classes and melee feats. All of them.

As incredibly annoying as it is currently to cast spells while using EB attacks (turbine, the switch from flinging blasts to casting a spell should be SEAMLESS. FREAKING FIX THIS), you're still going to get higher DPS doing that than meleeing with the aura on a DC maxed Warlock.

[Red_Knight]

As incredibly annoying as it is currently to cast spells while using EB attacks (turbine, the switch from flinging blasts to casting a spell should be SEAMLESS. FREAKING FIX THIS), you're still going to get higher DPS doing that than meleeing with the aura on a DC maxed Warlock.

Yeah, that's probably true. And if I cared about my "stick swinging" dealing crazy amounts of damage it'd make a difference. As it is, I'm swinging my weapon as something to do between aoe attacks and the occasional spell. Not looking for melee attacks to be my main contribution, just one that helps out. Eldrich Aura is likely out damaging my weapon attacks, but that's okay to me. Necromancy and eldrich blast are my main focus. Or rather Eldrich Aura is my main focus since Brilliance keeps convincing me to not switch to ranged attacking on that character.

[richieelias27]

Yeah, that's probably true. And if I cared about my "stick swinging" dealing crazy amounts of damage it'd make a difference. As it is, I'm swinging my weapon as something to do between aoe attacks and the occasional spell. Not looking for melee attacks to be my main contribution, just one that helps out. Eldrich Aura is likely out damaging my weapon attacks, but that's okay to me. Necromancy and eldrich blast are my main focus. Or rather Eldrich Aura is my main focus since Brilliance keeps convincing me to not switch to ranged attacking on that character.

Ah then I misunderstood what you were saying. I wouldn't call that "melee" though.

The awkwardness of slipping casts in-between eldritch blasts is sucking pretty hard right now.

[richieelias27]

Yeah, that's probably true. And if I cared about my "stick swinging" dealing crazy amounts of damage it'd make a difference. As it is, I'm swinging my weapon as something to do between aoe attacks and the occasional spell. Not looking for melee attacks to be my main contribution, just one that helps out. Eldrich Aura is likely out damaging my weapon attacks, but that's okay to me. Necromancy and eldrich blast are my main focus. Or rather Eldrich Aura is my main focus since Brilliance keeps convincing me to not switch to ranged attacking on that character.

Ah then I misunderstood what you were saying. I wouldn't call that "melee" though.

The awkwardness of slipping casts in-between eldritch blasts is sucking pretty hard right now. Enough, in fact, that I also made a Warlock dedicated to Aura party support + spellcasting.

[Red_Knight]

Confuse so far hasn't been that helpful on my tainted scholar. But then I only have the single target version right now. it's helped on occasion, but not enough to make me go "Oh wow". Had a chuckle when I managed to confuse an elder beholder in Invaders though.

[Vanhooger]

Confuse so far hasn't been that helpful on my tainted scholar. But then I only have the single target version right now. it's helped on occasion, but not enough to make me go "Oh wow". Had a chuckle when I managed to confuse an elder beholder in Invaders though.

Well I agree, and I have the mass confusion too. I say they work, but I almost forget that I have it, and when I use it, I think that it's not really worth it, in a few sec trash is dead so not really useful for me.

[richieelias27]

Well I agree, and I have the mass confusion too. I say they work, but I almost forget that I have it, and when I use it, I think that it's not really worth it, in a few sec trash is dead so not really useful for me.

I've actually found Mass Confusion to be immensely useful.

It is essentially a free opener that, if cast properly from a distance, guarantees that you will not attract initial aggro when you approach and start attacking. By the time they do get aggro on me, they are probably dead. It also has a side benefit of grouping everything up nicely as everything in the area homes in on the group I confused. Bonus: All of this happens regardless of how many mobs fail the save, so long as one gets confused. Bonus to the bonus: Anything invisible or hidden in the area breaks stealth to attack the confused mobs, not me.

Do note that the 10% chance to confuse on EB hit is not nearly as useful, as it does not give the side benefit of things attacking the confused mob. They already hate you, and one guy getting confused wont change that.

[Vanhooger]

I've actually found Mass Confusion to be immensely useful.

It is essentially a free opener that, if cast properly from a distance, guarantees that you will not attract initial aggro when you approach and start attacking. By the time they do get aggro on me, they are probably dead. It also has a side benefit of grouping everything up nicely as everything in the area homes in on the group I confused. Bonus: All of this happens regardless of how many mobs fail the save, so long as one gets confused. Bonus to the bonus: Anything invisible or hidden in the area breaks stealth to attack the confused mobs, not me.

Do note that the 10% chance to confuse on EB hit is not nearly as useful, as it does not give the side benefit of things attacking the confused mob. They already hate you, and one guy getting confused wont change that.

Well I say for me, it's faster to group mob, soundburst + energy burst + eldricth ball etc then run after mob killing each other, but I can see other people can find this useful.

[Angelic-council]

Been experimenting with it. Didn't take any melee feats nor do I use a khopesh of any kind. And with low str it's not like my melee damage is exceptional. But it supplements the eldrich aura, eldrich burst, and spirit blast damage. Although I am eying the elven dex to damage enhancement and wondering if I should get it. Feats are all for SLA damage, evocation DC, and necromancy DC (planned). Oh, and Toughness for more hit points. Seems to work all right. And on Lam a similar build had landed my DC spells fairly regularly on Epic Normal (which I mostly run). At least, they landed regularly when I wasn't fighting drow.

Well, I'm an elite player so, my personal focus would be any EEs. If you are running EN, mostly any builds will work, even those squishy builds. By the way, you shouldn't take any evocation feats, since eldritch blast has no save and pact damage is considered level 9 evocation spell - tainted sholar will boost your evocation DC by 5, which makes pact damage the most 'hardest spell' to resist in DDO game. If you want to be the best of the best, which I highly recommend people to try it. You must either, take necro focus (necro is good) or enchantment focus then pick quicken, maximize and empower spell to boost your SLAs.

Honestly speaking... maximizing mass confusion is a waste of time. I'm not saying it's useless, but you have better things to spend your APs on.

I can tell that you are casual player red. But melee + DC casting doesn't work, no matter how hard you try this :/ in order to make your EE run go smooth.. fast possible and get most of the kills nearly all the time. You must go pure warlock DC, damage caster.

Not melee warlock with no melee feats, but taken evocation focus, necro focus and toughtness. It's.. pretty bad Red.. :/

[Red_Knight]

I can tell that you are casual player red. But melee + DC casting doesn't work, no matter how hard you try this :/ in order to make your EE run go smooth.. fast possible and get most of the kills nearly all the time. You must go pure warlock DC, damage caster.

Not melee warlock with no melee feats, but taken evocation focus, necro focus and toughtness. It's.. pretty bad Red.. :/

In terms of how often I play, yeah I could be called casual. I go periods with playing daily then months without playing. And while I try to build a character to be as good as I can, always looking for ways to improve it... I'll admit to not being one of the top 10% of players. Back when VON was ran regularly on my home server, I wasn't flagged for it. When I tried to flag for it solo, I found the quest to recruit the vampire to be too difficult. When I tried grouping for it, I would get booted due to not knowing the quest backwards and forwards thus being unable to keep up with the zerg crowd who just wanted to complete every quest in the shortest period of time.

By the time I had flagged to head to Restless Isles nobody was running the two quests to flag twilight forge anymore. And as a sorcerer I'd be running low on SP by the time I even found one of the 2 TF flagging quests. This was back when level 10 was the cap and there were no hirelings. I'm still not flagged for Black Abbot because several of the quests leading up to it require an actual team, but almost nobody actually runs them anymore on my home server. Not to mention the fact nobody runs Black Abbot on that server. Not flagged for Demon Quean or the gianthold raid cause quite honestly, I can't actually find all the quest entrances. I think I'm flagged for the MotU raid against Loith, but nobody on my home server seems to run it anymore.

Because of this, I've never had access to all the gear that would enable soloing epic hard, or being able to survive epic elite. When I tried epic hard Lords of Dust two weeks ago I did fine the first fight... then got 2 shotted. Tried again, and went down from a single attack at the start of the quest. Clearly my character isn't equipped to handle epic hard yet. But that's okay, I figure eventually I will be.

But then again, I've never been a min/maxing power gamer. I build a character, then look for ways to improve it. But I don't go out of my way to find the most broken, but still legal, ways to build a character. Did that once with Heroes Unlimited Revised, a superhero tabletop RPG. And I found it was the most boring character I'd ever played. Which tells me I don't have the core mindset required for running epic elite content. Namely, I'm not a power gamer.

Maybe if I'd actually reached the cap at any point and had managed to flag for various raids before they stopped being ran regularly I'd be considered in that top 10% too. But at this point in time I realize I just don't care. If I can flag for a raid I might join if one is forming. But I doubt I'll exclusively raid or run THE hardest content on a regular basis to farm the best equipment. To me "Good enough" is a worthy goal, "Better" is something to strive for, but "trivializes everything" is NOT a goal to seek. If you trivialize everything, what's the point in playing? I play games for fun. And to me challenge is fun. Being completely overwhelmed all the time, not fun. Massively overwhelming everything with little to no risk, not fun. But being able to do stuff with the risk of failure? That is fun. And pulling off a win when the odds are stacked against you? Oh man that's a great time.

But this is deviating from the thread's main topic.

[TacRedline]

old thread but helpful to explain Confusion Thanks!