You're fundamentally changing Paladin soon?!?!? Whose brilliant idea is this?!

[ZhenBuYaoShi]

So, I'm in game, and I make a Warlock, right?

I decided to recreate a build that worked out very well for me in the Test Realm:

16 Warlock/2 Paladin/2 Rogue: The "Do-What's Best, Not Most Evil, Warlock Trapper"

(Please pardon my hand typing out of this character; I don't have access to character builder.)

Lvl 1 Stats:

Str 10
Dex 10
Con 10
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 20

Lvl 28 Stats (all stat points at levels go into CHA, I had a Necromantic Thunderforged Quarterstaff with Force built in, Resonance, and Devotion socketed in, and potency Lore, other gear I had was a ring with massive light spell power, uber epic trapping gear, the Epic Diefic Diadem, Epic Chain of Conviction--one very nice set of armor!, and other stuff that I cannot specifically recall at the moment, and the test server is down. The jist is, I was in ultimate end game gear, perfectly tailored to this build, so yes it will be hard to get, again, but it worked out fantastically!)

Str 24
Dex 27
Con 30
Int 39
Wis 25
Cha 59 (one problem, but this is a first life, I have no passive additions to pump it up with from completionist, or anything like that, it's also a first life drow so only 28 points to start. Build should get better over time with more lives, better than a +4 tome, and other small things that add up to a big difference to have a decent DC for spells, but I was still doing fine, to my surprise in EE content, after preemptively drain a couple levels from my targets every time, I'm usually using Enervating Blast anyway, and then waiting for them to get within my Aura of Menace to lower their saves even more, and down they seem to go. So like I said, happy with this build as it evolves.)

Skills: Bluff 4, Diplo. 4, D. Dev. 23, Haggle 4, Heal 2, Jump 4, Open Lock 10, Search 23, Spellcraft 2(OMG NO SPELLCRAFT, yes, no spellcraft, clearly if I wanted to be a trapper, it was a trade off I had to make, but my spell powers far more than adequate without it.), Spot 23, Tumble 4, UMD 10.

PRR 62/MRR 59

Elemental Resistances: 30 All, 55 Fire

Spell Resistance: 38

265% Fortification

Saves: Fort 67, Ref 71, Will 73

AC 62

HP 950/535 (Assuming Shining Through is active at level 28 with gear on)

SP 1850/1850

Fey Pact (only choice due to Paladin splash Lawful, and Good, precludes both Fiend and GOO pacts)

Important Spell Powers: Force 281, Sonic 277, Light 345, Positive 297

Feats: Spell Focus: Evoc, Spell Focus: Necro, Maximize, Extend, Heighten, G. Spell Focus: Necro, Quicken, Spell Penetration, Epic Arcane Eldritch Blast, Epic Skill Focus: Spot, Epic Reflexes.

Necro DC: 58
Evoc DC: 53

I'd list all of my Enhancements, but that's just way too much typing. I have evenly distributed my points across the 3 trees, obviously Enlightened Spirit has the most.

----------------------------------

Trade-offs: On my pure Warlock my consume can do average of about 200 ticks of damage, this guy only averages about 75 dmg ticks, my Eldritch Blast damage on the whole as an average is down by about 30%--but is still good, and doing the job, my Stricken hasn't lost as much as I thought it would for some reason 165 dmg ticks down to 105 dmg ticks, and there just weren't some things that I could take on my pure Warlock, that I couldn't on this Warlock, due to having to invest some points into Awareness Enhancements to make my trapping skills right on the dot for end game Epic Elite content.

Gains from Multiclassing: Evasion, massive extra skill points, fortified saves, complete weapon and armor proficiency. So, basically, a lot of survival abilities.

----------------------------------

Now, my problem is that I decided, for whatever reason to read the known issues list a few days ago, and I don't know how it escaped my noticed before, but this time my eyes locked dead on to it, and my neck almost snapped off.

"KNOWN ISSUES AS OF 6-18-2015

Feats:


Divine Grace is not currently limiting its saving throw benefit based on Paladin level. This change will be done for a future game update."

What is this? When was this decision made, and why?

I'm sitting here, and yesterday, I decided to make my build from the live server with my Pally splash; started it at level 7. So, I'm going along, I'm going along, and I'm like, "I want this to go faster!" So, I go to the DDO Store, right, and I am putting a supreme tome in my cart, and a greater tome of learning in my cart, and then--thank god, before I bought them, I remembered this little problem.

If this is happening to Paladin, no only is MY build screwed, but many many builds are screwed up then.

Do you have any good justification for this, just because it is at level two giving players easy access to it for multiclassing purposes, is not a reason to move the ability.

Do you plan to do this with Evasion for Rogues? Because that will screw up even more builds, and evasion is just as powerful, if not more so than Divine Grace. I only took Divine Grace to ENSURE Evasion would hold up, so, I'm willing to lose 30% of my warlock's blasting power, major damage from one of my only DoTs, and a few other things, just to ensure my Evasion sticks, but you're going to take that away, because you don't like where Wizards of the Coast put Divine Grace so that people WOULD multiclass into Paladin.

3 and 3.5 are all ABOUT multiclassing. Did you ever see the sheer number of source material books you have to draw upon for material to pump up this game with goodies, and you just leave them there to rot? I have probably 25 of the WotC 3.5 books, and you know what every single one of them have, new classes, and new Prestige classes. Know why? Because that was the fun of 3.5 making crazy fun "what can I get my toon to do" builds.

By doing what you are doing, you are fundamentally breaking down one of the crowning achievements of 3/3.5 which was glorious well implemented multiclassing.

For Rangers, you don't even make them CHOOSE between archery or two weapon fighting at level 2, you give them BOTH.

Fighters get the boon, of getting 2 fighter bonus feats if you want to take two fighter levels to increase your melee capabilities taking at least 2-4 fighter is always a good idea.

Monks, people splash the HELL out of Monks to exploit the hell out of their synergies with other stats and their early abilities, too. So, once, again, I'm asking you, what are you thinking? Who's idea was this? How did you come to this conclusion?

And, why when you have all of these other classes with uber level 2 abilities are you attacking Paladin's level 2 ability rendering splashing Paladin into any class henceforth worthless. There will never again be a paladin splashed toon--unless it's like at least 6 or so levels and they want to do melee, and that is NOT okay, and completely unjustified. Splashing Paladin should NOT just be for melees to use, this is an attrocity.

So, are you going to start making Evasion work only 10% of the time when people splash Rogue?

Are you going to start making people choose between Archery and Two Weapon Fighting when they take Ranger?

What about Monk, are you going to limit the synergy between their abilities and make them only scale by 10% with the 2 levels that have been taken?

If you aren't going to do all of this, then why the hell are you even THINKING of doing what you're thinking of doing to Paladin?!

It's a slippery slope, and if this is the direction you are headed in, less multiclassing ability and more utter pure toons, then that's just crp, because that's not what this version of DnD was based around, it was NOT based around the idea of utterly pure toons.

One thing is for sure, if that change is indeed going through, I'm definitely not going to invest in a Supreme Tome, or a Greater Tome of Learning for toon that will soon, be worthless, which I want clear clarification as to what exactly is happening, why it's happening, and approximately when it happening, because this is no small matter, it's game changing to a lot of people...

[Rys]

Sorry, paladin splash is overperforming. Roll a pure barb instead.

/sarcasm off

[Loromir]

So, I'm in game, and I make a Warlock, right?

I decided to recreate a build that worked out very well for me in the Test Realm:

16 Warlock/2 Paladin/2 Rogue: The "Do-What's Best, Not Most Evil, Warlock Trapper"

(Please pardon my hand typing out of this character; I don't have access to character builder.)

Lvl 1 Stats:

Str 10
Dex 10
Con 10
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 20

Lvl 28 Stats (all stat points at levels go into CHA, I had a Necromantic Thunderforged Quarterstaff with Force built in, Resonance, and Devotion socketed in, and potency Lore, other gear I had was a ring with massive light spell power, uber epic trapping gear, the Epic Diefic Diadem, Epic Chain of Conviction--one very nice set of armor!, and other stuff that I cannot specifically recall at the moment, and the test server is down. The jist is, I was in ultimate end game gear, perfectly tailored to this build, so yes it will be hard to get, again, but it worked out fantastically!)

Str 24
Dex 27
Con 30
Int 39
Wis 25
Cha 59 (one problem, but this is a first life, I have no passive additions to pump it up with from completionist, or anything like that, it's also a first life drow so only 28 points to start. Build should get better over time with more lives, better than a +4 tome, and other small things that add up to a big difference to have a decent DC for spells, but I was still doing fine, to my surprise in EE content, after preemptively drain a couple levels from my targets every time, I'm usually using Enervating Blast anyway, and then waiting for them to get within my Aura of Menace to lower their saves even more, and down they seem to go. So like I said, happy with this build as it evolves.)

Skills: Bluff 4, Diplo. 4, D. Dev. 23, Haggle 4, Heal 2, Jump 4, Open Lock 10, Search 23, Spellcraft 2(OMG NO SPELLCRAFT, yes, no spellcraft, clearly if I wanted to be a trapper, it was a trade off I had to make, but my spell powers far more than adequate without it.), Spot 23, Tumble 4, UMD 10.

PRR 62/MRR 59

Elemental Resistances: 30 All, 55 Fire

Spell Resistance: 38

265% Fortification

Saves: Fort 67, Ref 71, Will 73

AC 62

HP 950/535 (Assuming Shining Through is active at level 28 with gear on)

SP 1850/1850

Fey Pact (only choice due to Paladin splash Lawful, and Good, precludes both Fiend and GOO pacts)

Important Spell Powers: Force 281, Sonic 277, Light 345, Positive 297

Feats: Spell Focus: Evoc, Spell Focus: Necro, Maximize, Extend, Heighten, G. Spell Focus: Necro, Quicken, Spell Penetration, Epic Arcane Eldritch Blast, Epic Skill Focus: Spot, Epic Reflexes.

Necro DC: 58
Evoc DC: 53

I'd list all of my Enhancements, but that's just way too much typing. I have evenly distributed my points across the 3 trees, obviously Enlightened Spirit has the most.

----------------------------------

Trade-offs: On my pure Warlock my consume can do average of about 200 ticks of damage, this guy only averages about 75 dmg ticks, my Eldritch Blast damage on the whole as an average is down by about 30%--but is still good, and doing the job, my Stricken hasn't lost as much as I thought it would for some reason 165 dmg ticks down to 105 dmg ticks, and there just weren't some things that I could take on my pure Warlock, that I couldn't on this Warlock, due to having to invest some points into Awareness Enhancements to make my trapping skills right on the dot for end game Epic Elite content.

Gains from Multiclassing: Evasion, massive extra skill points, fortified saves, complete weapon and armor proficiency. So, basically, a lot of survival abilities.

----------------------------------

Now, my problem is that I decided, for whatever reason to read the known issues list a few days ago, and I don't know how it escaped my noticed before, but this time my eyes locked dead on to it, and my neck almost snapped off.

"KNOWN ISSUES AS OF 6-18-2015

Feats:


Divine Grace is not currently limiting its saving throw benefit based on Paladin level. This change will be done for a future game update."

What is this? When was this decision made, and why?

I'm sitting here, and yesterday, I decided to make my build from the live server with my Pally splash; started it at level 7. So, I'm going along, I'm going along, and I'm like, "I want this to go faster!" So, I go to the DDO Store, right, and I am putting a supreme tome in my cart, and a greater tome of learning in my cart, and then--thank god, before I bought them, I remembered this little problem.

If this is happening to Paladin, no only is MY build screwed, but many many builds are screwed up then.

Do you have any good justification for this, just because it is at level two giving players easy access to it for multiclassing purposes, is not a reason to move the ability.

Do you plan to do this with Evasion for Rogues? Because that will screw up even more builds, and evasion is just as powerful, if not more so than Divine Grace. I only took Divine Grace to ENSURE Evasion would hold up, so, I'm willing to lose 30% of my warlock's blasting power, major damage from one of my only DoTs, and a few other things, just to ensure my Evasion sticks, but you're going to take that away, because you don't like where Wizards of the Coast put Divine Grace so that people WOULD multiclass into Paladin.

3 and 3.5 are all ABOUT multiclassing. Did you ever see the sheer number of source material books you have to draw upon for material to pump up this game with goodies, and you just leave them there to rot? I have probably 25 of the WotC 3.5 books, and you know what every single one of them have, new classes, and new Prestige classes. Know why? Because that was the fun of 3.5 making crazy fun "what can I get my toon to do" builds.

By doing what you are doing, you are fundamentally breaking down one of the crowning achievements of 3/3.5 which was glorious well implemented multiclassing.

For Rangers, you don't even make them CHOOSE between archery or two weapon fighting at level 2, you give them BOTH.

Fighters get the boon, of getting 2 fighter bonus feats if you want to take two fighter levels to increase your melee capabilities taking at least 2-4 fighter is always a good idea.

Monks, people splash the HELL out of Monks to exploit the hell out of their synergies with other stats and their early abilities, too. So, once, again, I'm asking you, what are you thinking? Who's idea was this? How did you come to this conclusion?

And, why when you have all of these other classes with uber level 2 abilities are you attacking Paladin's level 2 ability rendering splashing Paladin into any class henceforth worthless. There will never again be a paladin splashed toon--unless it's like at least 6 or so levels and they want to do melee, and that is NOT okay, and completely unjustified. Splashing Paladin should NOT just be for melees to use, this is an attrocity.

So, are you going to start making Evasion work only 10% of the time when people splash Rogue?

Are you going to start making people choose between Archery and Two Weapon Fighting when they take Ranger?

What about Monk, are you going to limit the synergy between their abilities and make them only scale by 10% with the 2 levels that have been taken?

If you aren't going to do all of this, then why the hell are you even THINKING of doing what you're thinking of doing to Paladin?!

It's a slippery slope, and if this is the direction you are headed in, less multiclassing ability and more utter pure toons, then that's just crp, because that's not what this version of DnD was based around, it was NOT based around the idea of utterly pure toons.

One thing is for sure, if that change is indeed going through, I'm definitely not going to invest in a Supreme Tome, or a Greater Tome of Learning for toon that will soon, be worthless, which I want clear clarification as to what exactly is happening, why it's happening, and approximately when it happening, because this is no small matter, it's game changing to a lot of people...

This is a change that was talked about a year ago. Nothing new here. And, just because it's in the known issuses list doesn't mean it will be addressed right away.

[Chi_Ryu]

Welcome to the party, you are a little late, though because...

What is this? When was this decision made, and why?

...this decision was made just over a year ago, and has still not been implemented. Do a forum search and you will find numerous threads on the topic.

Having said that, it seems to have been placed on hold - possibly because there was a big backlash from it.

evasion is just as powerful, if not more so than Divine Grace.

Not since the Armor Up changes, it isn't.

3 and 3.5 are all ABOUT multiclassing. Did you ever see the sheer number of source material books you have to draw upon for material to pump up this game with goodies, and you just leave them there to rot?

When was the last time you had a stat of 30 or more in Pen'n'pencil D&D? Let alone having a primary stat of 59 (+24 (!)).

Monks, people splash the HELL out of Monks to exploit the hell out of their synergies with other stats and their early abilities, too.

Well, much less so nowadays, aside from Monkchers.

Paladin's level 2 ability rendering splashing Paladin into any class henceforth worthless.

Stacking +8 to all saves is still far from worthless, to be fair.

[Lonnbeimnech]

So, I'm in game, and I make a Warlock, right?

I decided to recreate a build that worked out very well for me in the Test Realm:

16 Warlock/2 Paladin/2 Rogue: The "Do-What's Best, Not Most Evil, Warlock Trapper"

(Please pardon my hand typing out of this character; I don't have access to character builder.)

Lvl 1 Stats:

Str 10
Dex 10
Con 10
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 20

Lvl 28 Stats (all stat points at levels go into CHA, I had a Necromantic Thunderforged Quarterstaff with Force built in, Resonance, and Devotion socketed in, and potency Lore, other gear I had was a ring with massive light spell power, uber epic trapping gear, the Epic Diefic Diadem, Epic Chain of Conviction--one very nice set of armor!, and other stuff that I cannot specifically recall at the moment, and the test server is down. The jist is, I was in ultimate end game gear, perfectly tailored to this build, so yes it will be hard to get, again, but it worked out fantastically!)

Str 24
Dex 27
Con 30
Int 39
Wis 25
Cha 59 (one problem, but this is a first life, I have no passive additions to pump it up with from completionist, or anything like that, it's also a first life drow so only 28 points to start. Build should get better over time with more lives, better than a +4 tome, and other small things that add up to a big difference to have a decent DC for spells, but I was still doing fine, to my surprise in EE content, after preemptively drain a couple levels from my targets every time, I'm usually using Enervating Blast anyway, and then waiting for them to get within my Aura of Menace to lower their saves even more, and down they seem to go. So like I said, happy with this build as it evolves.)

Skills: Bluff 4, Diplo. 4, D. Dev. 23, Haggle 4, Heal 2, Jump 4, Open Lock 10, Search 23, Spellcraft 2(OMG NO SPELLCRAFT, yes, no spellcraft, clearly if I wanted to be a trapper, it was a trade off I had to make, but my spell powers far more than adequate without it.), Spot 23, Tumble 4, UMD 10.

PRR 62/MRR 59

Elemental Resistances: 30 All, 55 Fire

Spell Resistance: 38

265% Fortification

Saves: Fort 67, Ref 71, Will 73

AC 62

HP 950/535 (Assuming Shining Through is active at level 28 with gear on)

SP 1850/1850

Fey Pact (only choice due to Paladin splash Lawful, and Good, precludes both Fiend and GOO pacts)

Important Spell Powers: Force 281, Sonic 277, Light 345, Positive 297

Feats: Spell Focus: Evoc, Spell Focus: Necro, Maximize, Extend, Heighten, G. Spell Focus: Necro, Quicken, Spell Penetration, Epic Arcane Eldritch Blast, Epic Skill Focus: Spot, Epic Reflexes.

Necro DC: 58
Evoc DC: 53

I'd list all of my Enhancements, but that's just way too much typing. I have evenly distributed my points across the 3 trees, obviously Enlightened Spirit has the most.

----------------------------------

Trade-offs: On my pure Warlock my consume can do average of about 200 ticks of damage, this guy only averages about 75 dmg ticks, my Eldritch Blast damage on the whole as an average is down by about 30%--but is still good, and doing the job, my Stricken hasn't lost as much as I thought it would for some reason 165 dmg ticks down to 105 dmg ticks, and there just weren't some things that I could take on my pure Warlock, that I couldn't on this Warlock, due to having to invest some points into Awareness Enhancements to make my trapping skills right on the dot for end game Epic Elite content.

Gains from Multiclassing: Evasion, massive extra skill points, fortified saves, complete weapon and armor proficiency. So, basically, a lot of survival abilities.

----------------------------------

Now, my problem is that I decided, for whatever reason to read the known issues list a few days ago, and I don't know how it escaped my noticed before, but this time my eyes locked dead on to it, and my neck almost snapped off.

"KNOWN ISSUES AS OF 6-18-2015

Feats:


Divine Grace is not currently limiting its saving throw benefit based on Paladin level. This change will be done for a future game update."

What is this? When was this decision made, and why?

I'm sitting here, and yesterday, I decided to make my build from the live server with my Pally splash; started it at level 7. So, I'm going along, I'm going along, and I'm like, "I want this to go faster!" So, I go to the DDO Store, right, and I am putting a supreme tome in my cart, and a greater tome of learning in my cart, and then--thank god, before I bought them, I remembered this little problem.

If this is happening to Paladin, no only is MY build screwed, but many many builds are screwed up then.

Do you have any good justification for this, just because it is at level two giving players easy access to it for multiclassing purposes, is not a reason to move the ability.

Do you plan to do this with Evasion for Rogues? Because that will screw up even more builds, and evasion is just as powerful, if not more so than Divine Grace. I only took Divine Grace to ENSURE Evasion would hold up, so, I'm willing to lose 30% of my warlock's blasting power, major damage from one of my only DoTs, and a few other things, just to ensure my Evasion sticks, but you're going to take that away, because you don't like where Wizards of the Coast put Divine Grace so that people WOULD multiclass into Paladin.

3 and 3.5 are all ABOUT multiclassing. Did you ever see the sheer number of source material books you have to draw upon for material to pump up this game with goodies, and you just leave them there to rot? I have probably 25 of the WotC 3.5 books, and you know what every single one of them have, new classes, and new Prestige classes. Know why? Because that was the fun of 3.5 making crazy fun "what can I get my toon to do" builds.

By doing what you are doing, you are fundamentally breaking down one of the crowning achievements of 3/3.5 which was glorious well implemented multiclassing.

For Rangers, you don't even make them CHOOSE between archery or two weapon fighting at level 2, you give them BOTH.

Fighters get the boon, of getting 2 fighter bonus feats if you want to take two fighter levels to increase your melee capabilities taking at least 2-4 fighter is always a good idea.

Monks, people splash the HELL out of Monks to exploit the hell out of their synergies with other stats and their early abilities, too. So, once, again, I'm asking you, what are you thinking? Who's idea was this? How did you come to this conclusion?

And, why when you have all of these other classes with uber level 2 abilities are you attacking Paladin's level 2 ability rendering splashing Paladin into any class henceforth worthless. There will never again be a paladin splashed toon--unless it's like at least 6 or so levels and they want to do melee, and that is NOT okay, and completely unjustified. Splashing Paladin should NOT just be for melees to use, this is an attrocity.

So, are you going to start making Evasion work only 10% of the time when people splash Rogue?

Are you going to start making people choose between Archery and Two Weapon Fighting when they take Ranger?

What about Monk, are you going to limit the synergy between their abilities and make them only scale by 10% with the 2 levels that have been taken?

If you aren't going to do all of this, then why the hell are you even THINKING of doing what you're thinking of doing to Paladin?!

It's a slippery slope, and if this is the direction you are headed in, less multiclassing ability and more utter pure toons, then that's just crp, because that's not what this version of DnD was based around, it was NOT based around the idea of utterly pure toons.

One thing is for sure, if that change is indeed going through, I'm definitely not going to invest in a Supreme Tome, or a Greater Tome of Learning for toon that will soon, be worthless, which I want clear clarification as to what exactly is happening, why it's happening, and approximately when it happening, because this is no small matter, it's game changing to a lot of people...

People still splash for evasion?

[Xyy]

People still splash for evasion?

People still quote full posts when they're this long?

[ZhenBuYaoShi]

Welcome to the party, you are a little late, though because...



...this decision was made just over a year ago, and has still not been implemented. Do a forum search and you will find numerous threads on the topic.

Having said that, it seems to have been placed on hold - possibly because there was a big backlash from it.



Not since the Armor Up changes, it isn't.

Actually the MMR isn't that great for lighter armor wearers, and it's only mediocre for medium armor wearers. But, for light, it's only a--just checked my level 22's Epic Light Armor, 18% magical dr, that's not Evasion. Evasion is no damage, and not 41% or 82% damage depending on if they save or not, should there be a save So, when weighing no damage against 82% likely damage, 41% unlikely damage, I'd still say it weighs in as much more powerful if you take care of your Ref Save. And, yes, I'm well aware of the fact that not all magical damage is ref save based, just ~80% of it is, or isn't that a fair assessment?

Now, if you want to make the argument that you can find gems and enhancements to pump it up, that is true. The gem, I should probably have in--sheltering, of course, I'm talking about. But, if you cite enhancements: one, not all toons are going to have access to PRR/MRR enhancement abilities in their trees, two, if they want to make their character a certain way, and get their last special ability, or whatever, they simply may not have the room for extra enhancement PRR/MRR points.

When was the last time you had a stat of 30 or more in Pen'n'pencil D&D? Let alone having a primary stat of 59 (+24 (!)).

Actually, looking at my last character that had reached level 20 in 3.5, it was a Sorcerer, and his Charisma was a 33. Well, his base was a 29 CHA, but I could always sustain 33 for any battle, cause I had this spell that gave me 2 more CHA, and I had this Supernatural Ability that I could activate a number of times a day yadda yadda that gave me 2 more CHA. So, I just have it written up as 33/29 for ease sake.

Well, much less so nowadays, aside from Monkchers.

I don't know how often you check out other toons, but I see 2 monk in builds all the time still, so it's not just Monkchers!

Stacking +8 to all saves is still far from worthless, to be fair.

It certainly isn't worth two levels of a toon. It might be worth two feats, but not two levels of a toon.

[unbongwah]

Divine Grace is not currently limiting its saving throw benefit based on Paladin level. This change will be done for a future game update."

What is this? When was this decision made, and why?

During the U23 overhaul of pallies, Turbine discussed capping the saves bonus from Divine Grace to " 2 + 3 * pal lvl," so a pal 2 splash got a max of +8 to saves, pal 3 was a max of +11, etc. The note on the Known Issues List is in reference to that, so it's presumably still planned; but it's been 9 months since U23 came out and still no DG nerf, so who knows when or if it will actually occur? We were also promised the rest of the racial PrEs many, many moons ago (well before the U19 overhaul), but I've given up hope that will actually happen...

[FranOhmsford]

It certainly isn't worth two levels of a toon. It might be worth two feats, but not two levels of a toon.

To get +8 Reflex Saves from Feats you need:
1) To have Power Attack or Precision switched OFF! {Resilience is a Stance that gives +4} Oh and also a 3x cooldown on all spells!
2) Lightning Reflexes for +2
3) Luck of Heroes for +1
4) Snake Blood for +1

That's FOUR Feats!

It's not even possible to get +8 to Will or Fort just from Feats!

No I'm not counting Insightful Reflexes or Force of Personality because those are stat swap feats.



The Splash is the biggest reason why DDO is too easy for some - Yes I know EDs have hurt the game too but Multiclassing should NOT be about simply gaining easy power! Multiclassing should involve major choices not do I take 2 levels of Pally for +15 to Saves or a capstone that gives less than half that benefit! {Seriously...Name a single capstone that equals +15 to ALL Saves?}.
Monk's already been nerfed heavily {unfortunately massively nerfing Pure Monks at the same time!}, Rogue is still useful for trapping+evasion but the evasion is no longer the #1 reason to splash Rogue thank goodness!
+8 to Saves for two Paladin levels is still vastly overpowered but can it be any less without hurting Paladins themselves {well actually it could...How many people have 26 Cha at Lvl 2?}.

So yes Devs - Make this happen!
Sorcerors, FavSouls, Bards and Warlocks get altogether too much benefit from the 2 Pally Splash!

[SisAmethyst]

...The Splash is the biggest reason why DDO is too easy for some - Yes I know EDs have hurt the game too but Multiclassing should NOT be about simply gaining easy power! Multiclassing should involve major choices not do I take 2 levels of Pally for +15 to Saves or a capstone that gives less than half that benefit! {Seriously...Name a single capstone that equals +15 to ALL Saves?}.
Monk's already been nerfed heavily {unfortunately massively nerfing Pure Monks at the same time!}, Rogue is still useful for trapping+evasion but the evasion is no longer the #1 reason to splash Rogue thank goodness!
+8 to Saves for two Paladin levels is still vastly overpowered but can it be any less without hurting Paladins themselves {well actually it could...How many people have 26 Cha at Lvl 2?}.

So yes Devs - Make this happen!
Sorcerors, FavSouls, Bards and Warlocks get altogether too much benefit from the 2 Pally Splash!

I am with FranOhmsford here, and others that have mentioned that this was discussed about a year ago. Hence in the past history of DDO builds come and gone, like the 'Exploiter' build back when ranger was king and everybody ran around in pyama. Yes, it may suck to adjust your favourite build, but honestly if you expect that your current flavour of the month build will be viable for the rest of your life you play the wrong game...

[voodoogroves]

As multiclass breakpoints are e all now based on enhancement trees, I wouldn't mind the ability to boost these to fill with AP. Or with a feat.