How i think DDO would get alot more players

[Adrics]

Ive tried recommending DDO to several friends. I will link them some videos on it and they will automatically be turned off by the low quality of graphics and either cant get into it because of that or wont try it at all. Ive also seen the problem of difficulty, or lack of rather. Ive noticed that the people who have been playing for a while now (Myself included) find the game way to easy now. Over time the quests have gotten easier, and the players have gotten ALOT stronger making the game nowhere close to a challenge. To put an example, i duo with a friend on EE quests at level or higher than our level without a problem, and im sure we are not the only ones that do that. I know that in the end turbine is a business, and needs to go where the money is and unfortunately it seems that most of the NA area (I dont know about other areas) just likes to play casually and doesnt want a difficult game.

My suggestion is this.

- Do a massive visual update on the game

- Make the quest difficulty system like more the challenges. Instead of picking a difficulty of normal, hard, or elite, pick epic or heroic (If it applies) and then pick a level for the quest. This way you can have the casual and new players have a lower difficulty and the players who are geared and want a challenge have a challenge. You would have to make the loot scale as well, but im sure it could be done.

I know that the visual update is easier said than done, it would be a lengthy process and not cheap either. But in the end i think it would be worth it if you could draw in new players

As for the quest difficulty rework i think that would be fairly easy to do, and would bring some players back who have left the game due to the game being to easy. I think the hardest part would be getting the scaling right.


This is all my own speculation, i said "I think" alot because i dont know for sure.

[FranOhmsford]

Ive tried recommending DDO to several friends. I will link them some videos on it and they will automatically be turned off by the low quality of graphics and either cant get into it because of that or wont try it at all. Ive also seen the problem of difficulty, or lack of rather. Ive noticed that the people who have been playing for a while now (Myself included) find the game way to easy now. Over time the quests have gotten easier, and the players have gotten ALOT stronger making the game nowhere close to a challenge. To put an example, i duo with a friend on EE quests at level or higher than our level without a problem, and im sure we are not the only ones that do that. I know that in the end turbine is a business, and needs to go where the money is and unfortunately it seems that most of the NA area (I dont know about other areas) just likes to play casually and doesnt want a difficult game.

My suggestion is this.

- Do a massive visual update on the game

- Make the quest difficulty system like more the challenges. Instead of picking a difficulty of normal, hard, or elite, pick epic or heroic (If it applies) and then pick a level for the quest. This way you can have the casual and new players have a lower difficulty and the players who are geared and want a challenge have a challenge. You would have to make the loot scale as well, but im sure it could be done.

I know that the visual update is easier said than done, it would be a lengthy process and not cheap either. But in the end i think it would be worth it if you could draw in new players

As for the quest difficulty rework i think that would be fairly easy to do, and would bring some players back who have left the game due to the game being to easy. I think the hardest part would be getting the scaling right.


This is all my own speculation, i said "I think" alot because i dont know for sure.

The graphics in DDO are miles better than those in SW:ToR, LotRO, Neverwinter and Allods which are all the SAME!

If DDO had graphics like those other games I would have quit after 1 hour!

As for Difficulty - Those Challenges you're championing have been completed FIFTEEN LEVELS UNDER!
I'd like to see someone complete EE Snitch on a Lvl 7 Character or EE GoP on a Lvl 15!

[TheGuyYouKnow]

a friend of mine tried out ddo and didnt stick around long because of the graphics, its a non issue for me but some people obviously do really care. he plays swtor and wow just for reference.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Generally speaking, IMHO DDO players are about 25 IQ points smarter than those who play WoW or DDO for Dummies;

If one plays a game for the graphics, one is easily distracted (mayfly) by something that shines differently.

Most DDO players aren't in it for the graphics (which have you seen the stormhorns? WOW) - so IMHO no loss of gadflies.

On the other hand - if someone tries DDO and sticks, it is because they found something MORE that 'gee-whiz, this looks purdy, I give it an eight' and will most likely be here in one, two, three years time.

Who would I personally prefer to have play? the second, non-gadfly,mayfly smarter than the average bear.

Yes, DDO players, Uurlock just payed you a compliment. It most certainly won't happen again. :P

[Full_Bleed]

a friend of mine tried out ddo and didnt stick around long because of the graphics, its a non issue for me but some people obviously do really care. he plays swtor and wow just for reference.

Strange. One of the reasons I never played WOW is because of their graphics. Complete ****. (The other being its terrible physics and combat mechanics. DDO slaughters it on those grounds, which is the core of the MMO experience in my book.)

That said, I *would* love to see DDO have a graphics overhaul. I'd enjoy the game more if it had better graphics and I do believe it would appeal to a newer generation of gamers if it did. There are some really amazing looking games out there these days.

Some visual improvements were made with the MotU expansion... but not earth shattering.

It's pretty clear that we won't get a new engine, so the best they might be able to do is scale up the poly count and add higher rez textures for a 3rd even higher rez client than they have now.

The questions are:

1) It would be tough to determine what the return would be (i.e. it's hard to quantify a visual improvement on player retention or new player acquisition with other active development going on).

2) It's an old graphics engine. We don't know how well it scales up or what impact it would have on performance. Given the quantity of mobs in the latest content, the negative impact could be significant. I think DDO is already a lot more CPU dependent than most newer games as is.


For the record: I'd *pay* for access to a higher poly/higher rez version like it was a mini EXPANSION (say around $25). Throw in some other cosmetic goodies (additional cosmetic slots and a trophy room) and they could have a real winner on their hands. Given the success of mirrors, I think there is a sound argument that people are willing to pay for an improved visual experience.

[PsychoBlonde]

Yeah, I regularly post DDO screenshots on my Facebook feed for my numerous gamer friends and every time I do I get comments like "wow" and "amazing" and "sweet graphics" and then I yell "IT'S A TEN YEAR OLD GAME!" and they all come back with "Mind = BLOWN". I have never, ever, not even ONCE had one of my friends tell me that they don't want to play the game because the graphics are bad. What I hear is "I don't have time for MMO's because I have kids/a job/responsibilities" or "I'm too broke" or "My computer is too old" or "I'm already playing (other MMO)" or "I tried it this one time, did the starter area, got bored, quit". The time commitment issue is the big one. The MMO market is *saturated* and has been in an industry-wide population downturn. Gamer demographics are changing from "17-year-old boys with Mom's credit card and infinite amounts of free time" to "30-year-olds with jobs and kids". 17-year-olds don't have disposable income these days. The people who DO have disposable income don't have disposable TIME.

DDO has fantabulous graphics, for the most part, and "upgrading" them in any substantial way would basically require that this game be retired and they produce DDO2. As it is, they already do nice little cleanups of areas that get epic makeovers, hadn't you noticed? DDO is ENORMOUS, content-wise. Even jazzing up textures is a BIG project and they DON'T HAVE A LOT OF DEVS. Most of them are busy outputting new stuff at the phenomenal rate that they push updates. Turbine is actually a pretty tiny company in industry terms.

If they want to attract more players, they may want to change their mindset on how much time they estimate people will have to play and what they'll want to do WHEN they are playing. Maybe. There are a substantial number of core aspects to the game design that cannot effectively be changed without basically smashing the whole thing and rebuilding from scratch. And they might as well make a new game if they're going to do that.

[Uska]

a friend of mine tried out ddo and didnt stick around long because of the graphics, its a non issue for me but some people obviously do really care. he plays swtor and wow just for reference.

Those gsmes have cartoon like graphics which I don't care for or understand anyone that thinks they are good

[Lonnbeimnech]

If you turn all the graphics options to max, the game does not look bad at all. Considering how old it is, the graphics are actually really good. You can't really judge it from a youtube video anyway, you can only judge the quality of that particular video. If someone set his graphics low to play without lag while recording and then uploaded a 144p, yeah its going to look like garbage.


Besides, why do so many people play minecraft? It's not because of the graphics. Because game play is much more important than the shinies, and you aren't going to get a feel for game play by watching a video.

[lyrecono]

Ive tried recommending DDO to several friends. I will link them some videos on it and they will automatically be turned off by the low quality of graphics and either cant get into it because of that or wont try it at all. Ive also seen the problem of difficulty, or lack of rather. Ive noticed that the people who have been playing for a while now (Myself included) find the game way to easy now. Over time the quests have gotten easier, and the players have gotten ALOT stronger making the game nowhere close to a challenge. To put an example, i duo with a friend on EE quests at level or higher than our level without a problem, and im sure we are not the only ones that do that. I know that in the end turbine is a business, and needs to go where the money is and unfortunately it seems that most of the NA area (I dont know about other areas) just likes to play casually and doesnt want a difficult game.

My suggestion is this.

- Do a massive visual update on the game

Not possible (not enough money/devs)
Not wanted, many prefer realism over cartoon furries

- Make the quest difficulty system like more the challenges. Instead of picking a difficulty of normal, hard, or elite, pick epic or heroic (If it applies) and then pick a level for the quest. This way you can have the casual and new players have a lower difficulty and the players who are geared and want a challenge have a challenge. You would have to make the loot scale as well, but im sure it could be done.

No, the code is a huge mess as it is, pilling another system on top of that doesn't help the stability.
If a veteran does his elite run he can help out the lowbie on normal.
We also have challanges in place for this (with leadership boards) and they rarely get used.

I know that the visual update is easier said than done, it would be a lengthy process and not cheap either. But in the end i think it would be worth it if you could draw in new players

My question is: would you want that to happen? drawing in more people that leave after 3 months because they were suckered in by pretty pictures?
As others have mentioned, graphics don't make a game, gameplay does.
Minecraft and retro gaming wouldn't be where they are today if it wasn't for that.
they entire mmo world suffers, it suffers from the layer of MMO players that are like driftwood, going from (F2P) mmo to the other, rarely settling, always rambling about that amazing game from their past (eg, everquest, wow, guildwars diablo, etc) causing many game to be created on the fly with terrible QA and paywalls (supported by incomprehensible currency conversion rates).
Many of those have forced server merges within their first few years (alods, aion etc)


As for the quest difficulty rework i think that would be fairly easy to do, and would bring some players back who have left the game due to the game being to easy. I think the hardest part would be getting the scaling right.

This is all my own speculation, i said "I think" alot because i dont know for sure.

I don't wan't this game to be turned into some standard bug eyed cartoon mmo of the month.
Though the models may look dated, i prefer the look over the glossy asian mmo look.
i also don't think the idea is feasible without buying a new engine and start from the ground up (latest cry-engine?)
An engine that costs money, as does the development, money they don't have, at all, they barely have enough to create content and even that needs multiple patches because they couldn't meet the deadlines.

would you really want this?

[FestusHood]

One thing to consider is how many players they would gain versus how many they would lose due to their computers simply not being able to handle the increased graphic requirements. I already know several players, myself included, who have some difficulty running certain content even with all the graphics at their lowest settings.

Maybe if it were possible for them to make this upgrade 100% optional, so that players like myself could continue to play at the same graphics level we have now, it would be ok.

[davmuzl]

DDO has both areas that look really cool (think of the slayer areas in forgotten realms) and some that are simply old by now. For obvious reasons the starting areas are the old ones. It's just a matter of what part you show.

Not only is the game too easy, but the character customization lacks depths these days.

Btw when it comes to WoW... I have never really played WoW myself. I know that the controls are really bad and that DDOs controls are at least solid (I would rather have a tumble button than having to stop-block-move), but from what I hear/see it seems that the WoW devs make some amazing mechanically complex raids. I don't exactly know how DDO compares to that, but the most interesting one imo would be LoB. If there were more similar encounters in the endgame, both in terms of challenge level and complexity that might at least bring some players back who left (provided it is not a MoD case where you can just complete it within 10 minutes on normal and farm that way).

I think what makes DDO so great is the variety of different builds you can go for and how you can make your own character the way you like. That's what should bring players into the game. That's where DDO should be at its best.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Well most companies get more customers through advertising; but....

[Saekee]

If it is about new player graphics experience, then update the graphics for The Grotto alone. Impressions stick after the first 40 seconds.

[Requiro]

(...)

My suggestion is this.

- Do a massive visual update on the game

Not needed. But some improvement are always welcome.

- Make the quest difficulty system like more the challenges. Instead of picking a difficulty of normal, hard, or elite, pick epic or heroic (If it applies) and then pick a level for the quest. This way you can have the casual and new players have a lower difficulty and the players who are geared and want a challenge have a challenge. You would have to make the loot scale as well, but im sure it could be done.

No. N/H/E is great difficult system, but seems like Devs don’t know or don’t have time to use it well.

(...)

What they should or could do for new players:

- New details in character creation (especially new faces)
- New intro (maybe cinematic one)
- New cinematic trailer (based on game stories)
- New cinematic stuff, before fist encounter, based on game (can be turn off in Menu for Veterans)
- New (upgraded?) named items for Khortos (adding augment slots, and 3-4 pice of set system)
- Upgrade of old named low level items (on levels 2-5)
- New attractive quest (level 2-5) on Stormreach, that are outside sewers, and kobolts. Of course Free to play.

What they should or could do for game difficulty:

- Difficult connection based on Past Lifes (some kind...)
- Add more teamwork quests/raids, connected with N/H/E difficult - from the simples, like additional platform, lever, for more hard one, like simultaneously killed two bosses, or even additional boss (maybe clone one?) , that made original boss immune when stand close.
- Add some unique difficulty to quest based on N/H/E - from simple like more locked doors, in higher difficulties, additional traps, or random place traps to more dangerous one like collapse floor or random ambushes events

Or maybe some crazy stuff:

- AI improvements based on Past Lifes (that will be interesting...) and based on difficult quest N/H/E
- Improvements (adjustment) on Guild Buffs - One sad example: Before ship resist buffs, there are nice Elite challenge, on low levels, with Kobolt Shaman. They Shoot very dangerous Lighting Bolt. This is no challenge at all now.

[Aliss7]

All I want is a string on my bow... waahhhhh. It's 2015, how can we make this happen! :P

Edit: oh, you know what always was weird to me with DDO, how Korthos had a snowy and sunny side... I actually loved this... it really added to immersion, but the devs never used this again. It's always sad to me how the environment doesn't change after all the heroic things we do for eberron/eveningstar!

[Requiro]

All I want is a string on my bow... waahhhhh. It's 2015, how can we make this happen! :P

Edit: oh, you know what always was weird to me with DDO, how Korthos had a snowy and sunny side... I actually loved this... it really added to immersion, but the devs never used this again. It's always sad to me how the environment doesn't change after all the heroic things we do for eberron/eveningstar!

There are some minor changes for example after The Lord of Dust, big rift in Harbor. I remember when I fist see this. Very impressive :-)

[General_Gronker]

DDO has both areas that look really cool (think of the slayer areas in forgotten realms)

Except for the fact that those areas do not look cool. Large, empty and boring? Yes. Cool? Not remotely. Visually, they are as boring as Sorrowdusk or Searing Heights, having nothing on the Demon Sands or Gianthold.

[The_Human_Cypher]

Generally speaking, IMHO DDO players are about 25 IQ points smarter than those who play WoW or DDO for Dummies;

If one plays a game for the graphics, one is easily distracted (mayfly) by something that shines differently.

Most DDO players aren't in it for the graphics (which have you seen the stormhorns? WOW) - so IMHO no loss of gadflies.

On the other hand - if someone tries DDO and sticks, it is because they found something MORE that 'gee-whiz, this looks purdy, I give it an eight' and will most likely be here in one, two, three years time.

Who would I personally prefer to have play? the second, non-gadfly,mayfly smarter than the average bear.

Yes, DDO players, Uurlock just payed you a compliment. It most certainly won't happen again. :P

The clear majority of DDO players are people in their thirties or older who are educated professional people or at least are smarter than the average MMO player. Graphics are important but are not the main appeal of this game to its player base. That being said, the graphics aren't the latest and greatest but they are still good and not a reason to stop playing. Contrast DDO's graphics (2006) with Asheron's Call (1999) and Anarchy Online (2001). AC's and AO's graphics are so dated that the visual appearance of those games are hard to overlook.

[TromboneFireTurtle]

Those gsmes have cartoon like graphics which I don't care for or understand anyone that thinks they are good

People don't think that the graphics are good, but (in SWTOR's case at least) the cartoony graphics are part of the appeal. SWTOR trying to use the nostalgia of KOTOR (2003) to its advantage, and intentionally made it somewhat campy, therefore poor graphics can be just as much a tool as amazing graphics.

[Full_Bleed]

One thing to consider is how many players they would gain versus how many they would lose due to their computers simply not being able to handle the increased graphic requirements. I already know several players, myself included, who have some difficulty running certain content even with all the graphics at their lowest settings.

Maybe if it were possible for them to make this upgrade 100% optional, so that players like myself could continue to play at the same graphics level we have now, it would be ok.

Well, since we already have a coexisting "low" and "high" rez version, I'm not sure why they couldn't have a "higher" rez version available as well... unless there is some technical limitation that we aren't privy to.