TOEE set and assasins

[kmoustakas]

Now that sneak attack has been changed to work with melee power, I was wondering if it is worth it to make a set of toee armor and off hand dagger for my dual-wielding assasin.

My intial plan was main hand tf, off hand assasin's kiss. When I found out that you need a crafted toee weapon for the set I admit I was a bit disappointed because the aoe proc is not the best thing for a sneaky assasin.

The question is, is it worth to craft an off hand CASTER dagger (for the riposte, slot and set bonus only) to take advantage of the +20 melee power (plus water mythic upgrades would give)?

Post your feedback and thank you in advance.

[Saekee]

I haven't made one yet, nor played a capped assassin--so take this with a grain of salt--but I feel assassins really need at least an improved deception weapon to help with sneak attack procs and, of course, its defensive component.

This creates issues for what weapons to wield and when. I am curious what some of the assassin aficionados have to say so bumping this.

[slarden]

There is really nothing in the game that beats 1st degree burns + 35% armor piercing + mortal fear, but that is a level 28 weapon and requires alot of Deathwyrm runs.

At cap I run with a tier 3 Thunderforged weapon and fully upgraded agony. This gives me first degree burns, armor piercing 35%, mortal fear, improved deception and solid damage.

While leveling I dual wield midnight greetings until level 23 and then dual wield fully upgraded agony until 26 when I switch to a tier 2 thunderforged dagger and agony.

Depending on the level of the weapons I can see Assassin's kiss possibly replacing agony at cap. I don't see ever using the craftable weapons on my rogue - those will go to my deeper alts that will never get a tier 3 thunderforged weapon.

[Eth]

The AoE proc is indeed pretty bad. I had situations where I aggro'd mobs through walls due to it.
Another reason to go with a caster stick is that the elemental vulnerability currently overwrites vulnerability from 1st degree burns.

[kmoustakas]

I'd like to note at this point that I'm not talking about mainhand dagger. The tier2 ability of tf (35% fort bypass) is totally irreplaceable. Personally I would make it blinding fear at tier1 for the flavor but I hear it's terribugged for now. Tier3 TF is the best weapon in the game hands down BUT it's highly unlikely I would ever get 30 shadow phlogs on one toon

My question is about the offhand dagger. Wouldn't +20 melee power add sooo much to the sneak attack damage to make it worth it? Granted, if I would get an assasin's kiss, the critical profile there would probably make it my mainhand weapon thus moving the tf to the off hand... Gah, so many options!

[slarden]

I'd like to note at this point that I'm not talking about mainhand dagger. The tier2 ability of tf (35% fort bypass) is totally irreplaceable. Personally I would make it blinding fear at tier1 for the flavor but I hear it's terribugged for now. Tier3 TF is the best weapon in the game hands down BUT it's highly unlikely I would ever get 30 shadow phlogs on one toon

My question is about the offhand dagger. Wouldn't +20 melee power add sooo much to the sneak attack damage to make it worth it? Granted, if I would get an assasin's kiss, the critical profile there would probably make it my mainhand weapon thus moving the tf to the off hand... Gah, so many options!

I don't think the +2 melee power or x3 multiplier makes up for the fact that the base damage is 1d4 instead of 2d4, but if you don't have a mythic muffled veneer or the raid necklace I would use it over agony for sure. I haven't seen a non-mythic version yet.

[slarden]

Tier3 TF is the best weapon in the game hands down BUT it's highly unlikely I would ever get 30 shadow phlogs on one toon

I will probably be hosting 2 weekends of non-stop deathwyrm runs to help a guidly that's been away from the game for a while get some gear. This will before the new eShavarath content comes out.

I see you are on sarlona so that might be an option for you if you are willing to use raid bypass timers.

[Saekee]

I bow out to slarden on this one--I think, though, that the only way to substitute the vital Improved Deception component for assassins (assuming we are talking about swapping the Improved deception weapon for the ToEE one) is
1) when fighting bosses that are resistant to deception (so swap it in)
or
2) maybe use the shadar-kai tier 4 as a replacement. This would cost AP but the expectation is that 25 mp is worth it. Not sure if the tier 4 thing is a sufficient substitute but I might try it next life.

edit: this one Gloom Stalker: While sneaking, your melee weapons gain the ability to envelop their targets in darkness, making them briefly vulnerable to sneak attacks. Your weapons also have a chance to blind their targets for a short time.

[kmoustakas]

Yeah I am using a ton of shadarkai enhancements and I definatelly use that (and harper agent too)

[Saekee]

Yeah I am using a ton of shadarkai enhancements and I definatelly use that (and harper agent too)

the harper agent affects weapons; how has the shadar kai worked? Does it proc in conjunction with equipment? It mentions 'while sneaking' so does that mean it does not work in regular combat (not including the blind effect)?

[slarden]

I bow out to slarden on this one--I think, though, that the only way to substitute the vital Improved Deception component for assassins (assuming we are talking about swapping the Improved deception weapon for the ToEE one) is
1) when fighting bosses that are resistant to deception (so swap it in)
or
2) maybe use the shadar-kai tier 4 as a replacement. This would cost AP but the expectation is that 25 mp is worth it. Not sure if the tier 4 thing is a sufficient substitute but I might try it next life.

edit: this one Gloom Stalker: While sneaking, your melee weapons gain the ability to envelop their targets in darkness, making them briefly vulnerable to sneak attacks. Your weapons also have a chance to blind their targets for a short time.

If I sounded like I was contradicting you that wasn't my intent. Your advice is always solid.

To me the biggest differentiator between different rogue's DPS is sneak attack up-time. If you can maintain continual sneak attack damage without the improved deception dagger the 20 MP is defintely worth it - you would just need to test it.

If you aren't getting nearly 100% sneak attack up time something is wrong and that should be your focus. Gloom stalker might actually be better than my setup because it procs on both weapons. I am very close to 100% sneak attack up time right now without gloom stalker so it's worth testing with a TOEE upgraded item for the 20 MP set bonus to test.

Unfortunately i don't have any info on that and it partially depends on the rest of your setup.

[Saekee]

If I sounded like I was contradicting you that wasn't my intent. Your advice is always solid.

To me the biggest differentiator between different rogue's DPS is sneak attack up-time. If you can maintain continual sneak attack damage without the improved deception dagger the 20 MP is defintely worth it - you would just need to test it.

If you aren't getting nearly 100% sneak attack up time something is wrong and that should be your focus. Gloom stalker might actually be better than my setup because it procs on both weapons. I am very close to 100% sneak attack up time right now without gloom stalker so it's worth testing with a TOEE upgraded item for the 20 MP set bonus to test.

Unfortunately i don't have any info on that and it partially depends on the rest of your setup.

Hi slarden--thx! No I did not mean to imply that--I meant that I haven't played a pure rogue in a while and instead you have mastered them. (My main is a 13 rogue build which is not so tenable after the last update, at least as a melee; as a bow/thrower it is shining.)

I figure that the key element for wielding Agony and the EMGs is, of course, the Improved Deception. Improved Deception does not work on everything AFAIK--it definitely affects some bosses but perhaps not others? Hence it would mean weighing the DPS of Agony vs a TOEE set which also means, though, switching armor at those times. I am inclined to think that the melee power boost (I think the total between armor and weapon results in about 26 mp or so) would be well-worth it for those special encounters. (But then, having the gear like slarden mentions is so good that it might be less interesting. If one lacks Tier 3 TF weapons and can't raid much, the ToEE set may be even more appealing for some boss DPS.)

My Twilight Blade build would definitely benefit continuously with the ToEE set since it uses Harper deception.