What feats are good on Warlock....?

[ChildrenofBodom]

Took a break from the game, but the Warlock looks awesome enough to bring me back.

I loaded up Lammania, and started taking typical Wizard/Sorc feats such as Max/Empower, and started realizing that the Warlock wasn't getting any actual damage spells like Fireball, etc, and I assume max/emp doesn't work with eldritch blast?

If that's true....what do you take...? I couldn't find anything that would be helpful.

So what is the cut and dry feats the warlock takes?

For instance,

Wiz/Sorc - Max/Emp
Cleric/FvS - Emp Healing/max/emp
Melee classes - Improved Critical

What is the equivalent for Warlock....?

[Vargouille]

It may be worth noting that Eldritch Blast Pact damage has a saving throw, and Eldritch Blast is considered an Evocation spell. So your Eldritch Blast DC can be improved with the Spell Focus: Evocation line of feats.

Spell Power, Spell Critical Chance, and Spell Critical damage statistics also improve Eldritch Blast damage (which may matter more for itemizing but perhaps for certain feats).

[DeWind]

It may be worth noting that Eldritch Blast Pact damage has a saving throw, and Eldritch Blast is considered an Evocation spell. So your Eldritch Blast DC can be improved with the Spell Focus: Evocation line of feats.

Spell Power, Spell Critical Chance, and Spell Critical damage statistics also improve Eldritch Blast damage (which may matter more for itemizing but perhaps for certain feats).

Thanks for the information...I have read a lot on the forums but haven't caught everything. But when I catch a post from you all like this, it is like finding out my Fortune from the cookie is a good one. ;>

Okay, probably better than that...but you understand.

Thanks,

[FranOhmsford]

It may be worth noting that Eldritch Blast Pact damage has a saving throw, and Eldritch Blast is considered an Evocation spell. So your Eldritch Blast DC can be improved with the Spell Focus: Evocation line of feats.

Spell Power, Spell Critical Chance, and Spell Critical damage statistics also improve Eldritch Blast damage (which may matter more for itemizing but perhaps for certain feats).

So...What about Heighten then?

[Systern]

It may be worth noting that Eldritch Blast Pact damage has a saving throw, and Eldritch Blast is considered an Evocation spell. So your Eldritch Blast DC can be improved with the Spell Focus: Evocation line of feats.

Spell Power, Spell Critical Chance, and Spell Critical damage statistics also improve Eldritch Blast damage (which may matter more for itemizing but perhaps for certain feats).

Spellpower: Eldritch Blast intentionally doesn't work with metamagics. Maximize and Empower only work on certain SLAs. You can take Skill Focus: Spellcraft or Perform for +3 spellpower. ML3 Items are going to add +36 or more.
Spell Critical Chance: Mental Toughness and Imp. Mental Toughness add 1% crit chance. ML 3 crit items are going to add +11% or more.
Spell Critical Damage: There are no feats that alter this.


There are no feats that make a major impact on your character. This class was designed by the same people that make epic content; character build is irrelevant the only thing that truly matters is itemization.
Remember that April Fool's joke that was an enhancement tree with only Toughness in it? The joke was they weren't kidding.

	Charisma Fey	Intelligence G.O.O.
Damage skill	Perform - a cross class skill	Spellcraft
Evocation save type	Reflex	Will
Pact save bonus	+5 Reflex	+5 Will
Feat Save bonus	Force of Personality: Charisma mod to Will	Insightful Reflexes: Intelligence mod to Reflex
Racial Affinity	Drow	Drow, Sun Elf
Differential sources of primary stat:	Few (recall one cha twist maybe) Every +3i cha item has a +3i int variant There is no +4i cha item.	+2 Int in Harper tree More +3 insightful int item options +4 Mythic Arcane Armor

Evocation DC: Can be helpful. True. However, Spellcraft scales the damage of both the base damage and the fire/acid pact damage. At it's highest, the difference between average max damage and average failed damage is 38%. Having +38 spellcraft or Universal spellpwr over a charisma build is more damage failing the save than having 95% "no-fail" charisma mod. This is worst case scenario, e.g. A Horc Warlock that tanks charisma. Adding Cha items and a few build points will mean making some saving throws and scaling the greater Spwr to it. As for resistances, it certainly feels like there's more Drow with evasion through out all parts of the game then there are pockets of reavers and devils that take reduced damage to acid - and that's just Drow, not evasion mobs as a whole.

Saves: Will saves are the most mitigate-able saves in the game. Adding your charisma mod so you become neigh-immune to Will-save spells isn't great when FoM, Protection from Evil, Deathward, et al make you completely immune to these spells. Prioritizing int means that you're going to have more than a +5 modifier for Insightful Reflexes as well.

Conclusion: The new charisma caster is better off building int.

Also, having spent years trained by DDO to get used to jump-casting and aiming fireballs/otiluke's at a monster's feet so the AoE hits them, having a brand new ranged combat system that ignores your targetting reticle is jarring. Steelstar confirmed in DevChat on Lammania this morning that they're not going to "fix" this before release. This is game-breaking. It's a deal breaker. Having the system only respond to soft/hard targetted objects means you can't lead your shots for a strafing mob. It's immersion breaking and boring. The only thing that makes it remotely playable is Chain Blast, which is disgustingly overpowered.


I'm afraid after watching this, Turbine will nerf Chain blast without fixing aiming, so then this class becomes a complete train-wreck.

[slarden]

It may be worth noting that Eldritch Blast Pact damage has a saving throw, and Eldritch Blast is considered an Evocation spell. So your Eldritch Blast DC can be improved with the Spell Focus: Evocation line of feats.

Spell Power, Spell Critical Chance, and Spell Critical damage statistics also improve Eldritch Blast damage (which may matter more for itemizing but perhaps for certain feats).

Does Heighten do anything for Eldritch blast? What is the spell level with/without heighten?

To add to your point magical training add a 5% spell critical chance so is very useful choice since it's not auto-granted.

[Lonnbeimnech]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Divine_Grace

[slarden]

Conclusion: The new charisma caster is better off building int.

I agree with this for Shiradi. However, if you want any of the other DC spells you don't have a choice between INT and CHA - CHA is the only way to boost DC. I also agree with great old one for Shiradi because you don't want to see pact damage evaded because it means no proc chance.

This is not new many sorc shiradi casters already go with int builds.

[Angelic-council]

I agree with this for Shiradi. However, if you want any of the other DC spells you don't have a choice between INT and CHA - CHA is the only way to boost DC. I also agree with great old one for Shiradi because you don't want to see pact damage evaded because it means no proc chance.

This is not new many sorc shiradi casters already go with int builds.

Yeah, I agree. And charisma based warlock DC caster would have strong SLA damage and CC. INT is for shiradi only. But good idea.

[Systern]

Does Heighten do anything for Eldritch blast? What is the spell level with/without heighten?

To add to your point magical training add a 5% spell critical chance so is very useful choice since it's not auto-granted.

Warlocks do get Magical training auto-granted.

[slarden]

Warlocks do get Magical training auto-granted.

Ah thanks for the correction. I didn't see it in my list of feats at one point but I might have missed it.

[voodoogroves]

It may be worth noting that Eldritch Blast Pact damage has a saving throw, and Eldritch Blast is considered an Evocation spell. So your Eldritch Blast DC can be improved with the Spell Focus: Evocation line of feats.

Spell Power, Spell Critical Chance, and Spell Critical damage statistics also improve Eldritch Blast damage (which may matter more for itemizing but perhaps for certain feats).

I do think it would be nice to swap one of them to conjuration and maybe other ones to variant schools; there are some heavily under-used feats.

[Systern]

I agree with this for Shiradi. However, if you want any of the other DC spells you don't have a choice between INT and CHA - CHA is the only way to boost DC. I also agree with great old one for Shiradi because you don't want to see pact damage evaded because it means no proc chance.

This is not new many sorc shiradi casters already go with int builds.

Yeah, I agree. And charisma based warlock DC caster would have strong SLA damage and CC. INT is for shiradi only. But good idea.

I've found that you don't need to cast all that often, and when you do there's enough +1 to Dcs in Scholar that the T5 boost in Harper that gives you +10 is sufficient for decent results. Things rarely get close enough to actually need your CC.

[Angelic-council]

I've found that you don't need to cast all that often, and when you do there's enough +1 to Dcs in Scholar that the T5 boost in Harper that gives you +10 is sufficient for decent results. Things rarely get close enough to actually need your CC.

I like the way how you think Systern. But, hold your thoughts for a minute. The thing is, by giving up charisma, your build would be strictly limited to Shiradi. Allow me to explain why -

- As you may know, warlocks are charisma based casters. If you get your charisma highest possible, you then might want to pick exalted angel for extra 7 - 8 charisma and + 3 DCs. Giving you better eldritch blast saves, but most importantly - you can maximize your death spells along with SLAs: such as energy burst, avenging light, divine wrath, sun bolt and hellball etc. We all going to be struggling with the boss fights in EE. But when you have those powerful spells, you can clear the trash much more efficiently. Meaning, you can get to the boss much faster, and you would have powerful burst damage. The key here is to stay pure lv20 and mix between TS and ES enhancements for DPS, DC and defense. Just by having slightly higher spellcraft than pure warlocks charisma based doesn't make you a powerful warlock.

Now, the next thing is actually coming from my personal experience in EEs.. But, as a warlock, you might want to go with the medium armor (heavy), and ES will help you with that. Warlocks are naturally resistant to spell damage (Aegis), and once you get the medium armor prof without spell failure, you can free up some APs/feats/maybe augment slots and focus on keep maximizing PRR/MRR.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I was going to start a new thread, but maybe I can get the answers I need here.

How do some of you guys recommend making a Warlock?

Stats. feats... easy to obtain (low levelish) gear.
Race...

Which tress? Musthave stuff from them...etc.




I was actually thinking trying to make a Cha based Hal Elf and use the Dragon marks.
But first and primary for Warlocks I think is to get the most out of the eldritch blasts.

I was thinking Fey, but feel free to convince me otherwise...

(good argument about Int based....)

[Systern]

I like the way how you think Systern. But, hold your thoughts for a minute. The thing is, by giving up charisma, your build would be strictly limited to Shiradi. Allow me to explain why -

- As you may know, warlocks are charisma based casters. If you get your charisma highest possible, you then might want to pick exalted angel for extra 7 - 8 charisma and + 3 DCs. Giving you better eldritch blast saves, but most importantly - you can maximize your death spells along with SLAs: such as energy burst, avenging light, divine wrath, sun bolt and hellball etc. We all going to be struggling with the boss fights in EE. But when you have those powerful spells, you can clear the trash much more efficiently. Meaning, you can get to the boss much faster, and you would have powerful burst damage. The key here is to stay pure lv20 and mix between TS and ES enhancements for DPS, DC and defense. Just by having slightly higher spellcraft than pure warlocks charisma based doesn't make you a powerful warlock.

Now, the next thing is actually coming from my personal experience in EEs.. But, as a warlock, you might want to go with the medium armor (heavy), and ES will help you with that. Warlocks are naturally resistant to spell damage (Aegis), and once you get the medium armor prof without spell failure, you can free up some APs/feats/maybe augment slots and focus on keep maximizing PRR/MRR.

I'd agree with you that a charisma build may be better for the sheer fact that it doesn't have to be terminally boring...

However:
Shiradi is an obvious choice. And Primal offers some spellpower benefits
Draconic offers lots of Acid spellpwr and DC enhancement if you've taken the SF:Evo feats, and honestly, what else are you going to take? Toughness like they recommend?
Crusader offers a small amount of spellpower, a little spell crit, and a lot of survivability.
and, Shadowdancer at least has +int! A charisma based pew-pewwy warlock is screwed for the martial sphere.
So you're better off "grinding" out ePLs with the int build.


I'm not sure I follow your argument that charisma is better against bosses, when the int based spellpower Pewwer does more damage. Especially with some charisma (Libram of Silver magic is +11 to both Int and Cha, yadda yadda) that additional scaling just helps a full-unsaved-blasts' damage more so. Evard's doesn't effect bosses, so I'm not sure what other burst damage you're referring to, but again, if you do need it for the boss fight, there's the +10dc boost from harper. As for handling boss fights with trash, Hard target the boss, chain blast til all the trash is dead, switch to focused blast for full Spwr scaling and finish the boss off.

My original point was that tanking charisma, pure int is more damage. A real build with build points and charisma items is just even more damage if you can make 30-50% of the saves. Since there are no really impactful feats for Warlocks, taking the SF: Evo feats is perfectly reasonable. And Turbine has said in the past that on the whole, monster's lowest saves are will saves.

Once you have "enough" charisma to make your DCs, adding even more does nothing for you. At least Moar Int! adds damage.


Suppose you build a Drow with 18/18 starting Int/Cha (spreading out some build point love), and spend AP in racial 6 (for the 2 int), 31 Scholar (for the 2 int and level 18 core), 37 Harper (4 int, 18 core, T5s), and 6 points wherever. 7 Level-ups in Int. That's +15 Int, +7.5 modifier difference and even then, the +10 Harper boost is better for you than building Cha! If you want to skip the racial tree and put some more AP into SoulEater, there's Food for Thought for 1d8 insightful int bonus, and there's no Cha equivalent...

[mezzorco]

Suppose you build a Drow with 18/18 starting Int/Cha (spreading out some build point love), and spend AP in racial 6 (for the 2 int), 31 Scholar (for the 2 int and level 18 core), 37 Harper (4 int, 18 core, T5s), and 6 points wherever. 7 Level-ups in Int. That's +15 Int, +7.5 modifier

Is it equivalent to just +7~8 spellpower or am I reading it wrong?

Furthermore, the higher your spellpower is, the less you benefit from it.
Assuming 75% scaling, if you have 100 spellpower +8 spellpower gives you +3.4% damage, but if you have 300 sp +8 gives you just +1.8%.

Do you really want to cut your DCs by 8 for +2% damage?

[Systern]

Is it equivalent to just +7~8 spellpower or am I reading it wrong?

Furthermore, the higher your spellpower is, the less you benefit from it.
Assuming 75% scaling, if you have 100 spellpower +8 spellpower gives you +3.4% damage, but if you have 300 sp +8 gives you just +1.8%.

Do you really want to cut your DCs by 8 for +2% damage?

That's kind of a fallacy. +10 spellpower is always a +10% increase in the base damage. There's no diminishing return. On 100 damage, +10 spell power will always increase your damage by 10 damage, whether you have 0 or 300 spell power. +10 damage gets less sexy as you do more total damage, but it's always +10 damage.

By prioritizing int, and investing in the Harper tree, you're putting the emphasis on spell power as a whole...

Harper adds:

• Core:
  
  • +16 USP from Agent of Good I,II,III
  
  
• Tier 1:
  
  • +3 Implement from Harper Enhancement
  
  
• Tier 2:
  
  • +3 USP from Versatile Adept I
  
  
• Tier 3:
  
  • +3 USP from Versatile Adept II
  • +3 Spellcraft from Highly Skilled
  
  
• Tier 4:
  
  • +3 USP from Versatile Adept III
  
  
• Tier 5:
  
  • +6 USP from Versatile Adept IV
  • +10 USP from Harper Enchantment of Magic
  • Moment of Clarity: +1 passive, boost for +10 to spell DCs.
  
  
• +4 Int which applies +2 Spellcraft (and +2 reflex saves with Insightful Reflexes)

That's 49 spell power that arguably you wouldn't invest in if you stick to charisma and the class trees.

My copied TR is currently level 20 and running around with Epic Rock Boots and crafted Impulse/Kinetic Lore items (not completely decked out). I'm currently at 269 acid/239 force spell power. Would you give up 20% of your total damage just to ensure you're always completely 'off the die'?





Reconsidering:
There's 42 possible spwr in SoulEater, though 30 of it is 5 per core. And +8% spell crit... Hrmm... I could be wrong.

[mezzorco]

That's kind of a fallacy. +10 spellpower is always a +10% increase in the base damage.

It depends on spellpower scaling, for example chain EB scales with 75% spellpower, so 10 spellpower gives 7.5% base damage.
I know this, in fact I was talking about total damage. Are you really worried about doing 10 more damage at level 28 if this means being unable to land DC spells effectively?

By prioritizing int, and investing in the Harper tree, you're putting the emphasis on spell power as a whole...
[snip]
That's 49 spell power that arguably you wouldn't invest in if you stick to charisma and the class trees.

Warlock Soul Eater has +12 usp in tree and +5 for each core, enlightened spirit has + 12 usp and +30 light sp in tree, tainted scholar has +0.75 sp per point spent in tree. I know that an int based lock can take these aswell, but I doubt you could take them all on top of harper agent.

And as you said, taking T5 in soul eater you get +3% crit chance among other benefits, while taking tainted scholar T5 you get +1 DC and another handful of spellpower from points spent.

It's a tradeoff, but I doubt harper is a clear winner.

[HastyPudding]

/snip

Keep in mind that pact damage has a save, which is based on charisma/evocation. Without investment in charisma, your pact damage is basically halved, or even potentially completely negated on evasion enemies if you're a fey pact warlock.

All of those +int enhancements and such in harper tree are also a pretty heavy investment. I don't quite think the benefits of an intelligence warlock outweigh the penalties, you seem to lose a lot of extra abilities and effects from not going deep into the warlock trees, not to mention any sort of DC spellcasting potential. It could work if you were some sort of artificer or wizard multiclass build, I guess, but it still seems odd.