Int vs. Dex

[Spyder1228]

Hey all,

After taking like a year break I am back to the game with some new friends. I was looking to build a new (pref assassin focused) rogue but apparently, everything has changed? With the introduction of the Harper enhancement tree (int to damage) and other changes I was wondering if someone could give me a quick run down?

Basically, is an int-based rogue still worth it or is dex-based generally better?

Is weapon finesse worth it or is using daggers/kukris okay with the crafting ability?

Any other major changes I should be tracking?

Thanks for any assistance!

[slarden]

I think dex is better and much easier to gear-up as well. A few reasons:

- you free up one feat slot since you no longer need insightful reflexes. I don't bother with weapon finesse
- you don't need buy/ues harper tree since you get dex to-hit and damage with daggers and kukris for free from the assassin tree. This frees up ap for other trees
- great synergies with the thief acrobat tree - 3 dex/dodge available from shadow dodge and no mercy available in tier 4. You get more dodge and defense from that tree
- more race choices that work well
- more dex gear options, i.e., the haunted halls necklace with ins +4 dex and epic mentau's goggles and/or epic ethereal bracers with 11 dex. Ins int +3 is esp hard to slot.
- higher armor class (I notice a difference - others say they don't)

My dex based halfling is in my signature. There are other builds in the specialist section such as Hassan's build which is really great and and packed full of great info.

[Elibolas]

Int just works so well now. Know the Angles, Int for Damage and To hit.... it's also the primary stat for disable device and search. Heck, by maxing Int you even get more skills to play with. Seems like a win.

-- Elibolas

[CThruTheEgo]

Now that dex can be used for assassinate DC, there is no contest between dex or int – dex is the clearly superior option. There is basically no way in which int based is better than dex and this is due primarily to the synergy between dex based and the acrobat tree. Check out Hassan's Assassin in my sig for a dex based assassin, both halfling and human options are detailed.

Int based gets:
~more skills, which aren't needed. You end up taking "useless" skills just because you have so many. Dex based can still get all the essential skills and then some.
~higher search and disable, which also isn't needed. Dex based can still get these high enough to be able to do every trap in the game, although they will be more gear dependent to do so.
~int to hit and damage through harper. As slarden mentioned, you already get dex to hit and damage with daggers/kukris. Dex based also has access to more dex, which means higher base damage.
~more damage from know the angles. This only matters against bosses, red named mobs specifically. Against trash and orange named mobs, dex based will actually do more damage due to no mercy (additional damage against helpless mobs).

Dex based gets:
~3 more dodge, 4 more max dodge bonus, and 7 more max dex bonus. This means that dex based can take full advantage of the temporary dodge bonuses that assassin gets.
~improved defensive roll. This means you'll have about an 80% chance to take half damage when below 50% of your health. This is a significant boost to damage mitigation, which is one of an assassin's greatest weaknesses.
~no mercy. As stated above, this allows you to do more damage against helpless mobs. Assassins do not have an inherent method of inducing helplessness, but if you twist balanced attacks, then you knockdown enemies on a vorpal to put them into a helpless state. Vorpals happen often while twf, so you'll knockdown mobs often.
~the ability to tumble through enemies. This has saved me on many occasions.
~immunity to knockdown and slippery surfaces. This is a huge convenience as well as a nice boost to defenses.
~access to more dex, which means a higher assassinate DC. Int based is heavily dependent on gear to get their assassinate DC to effective levels for upper level EE content. Dex based can get there more easily due to more dex enhancements, as well as easier to acquire dex gear.

So in the end, the only advantage int based has that actually matters is the higher damage against bosses from know the angles. This difference can be as little as about 5 points of damage per hit depending on how you build your dex based assassin. Assassins already do a ton of damage, but their defenses are still fairly weak. The defensive benefits of acrobat go a long way toward shoring up those weaknesses. So the many benefits of dex based far outweigh the one minor advantage that int based offers.

Regarding weapon finesse – it can be useful (though not absolutely needed) during leveling only for greater weapon variety when fighting mobs that you don't want to use daggers against (e.g. skeletons), but it isn't needed in mid-late epics when your dagger options will outshine any other weapon options. I take it in heroics and swap it out in epics.

[unbongwah]

The only reason I could see going INT-based on an Assassin anymore is if you wanted to combine with Mechanic for some xbow fun as well, similar to my Mechassin. But because of the severe feat constraints, you either have to settle for just a couple of ranged feats (limiting your ranged DPS) or MC for extra feats (which costs you Assassin capstone, which is a sizable hit to DPS and -4 to Assassinate DCs at least).

[Saekee]

An undergeared new player might find INT better for traps etc whereas experienced ones have no issues there due to tomes, shinies, crafting, quest knowledge etc.
Imroved traps in the mechanic tree allows for nice CC with web traps for INT rogues but a dex assassin can go that way as well. (Not sure if the DC includes gear).