Epic Envenomed Blade's Paralysis does not give 30% Sense Weakness bonus (bug)

[Rasputin]

Sorry for posting a bug in here but I have tried using the bug reporting website to no avail. After 24 epic lives I sure would like this one to be fixed.

Widowblight and The Blade of the High Priestess, upon paralyzing an opponent, apply the 30% bonus to damage that comes from Sense Weakness. The Epic Destiny ability states:

"You deal 30% extra damage to the helpless."

But when I equip my Epic Envenomed Blade, even after it paralyzes an enemy I do not get the damage bonus. It is readily apparent and easily testable.

Thanks (in advance) for looking into the problem.

[Krelar]

Sorry for posting a bug in here but I have tried using the bug reporting website to no avail. After 24 epic lives I sure would like this one to be fixed.

Widowblight and The Blade of the High Priestess, upon paralyzing an opponent, apply the 30% bonus to damage that comes from Sense Weakness. The Epic Destiny ability states:

"You deal 30% extra damage to the helpless."

But when I equip my Epic Envenomed Blade, even after it paralyzes an enemy I do not get the damage bonus. It is readily apparent and easily testable.

Thanks (in advance) for looking into the problem.

Paralysis isn't supposed to make opponents helpless. (long story) So it's Widowblight and the blade of the high priestess blade that are bugged.

That said those other two weapons deal stat damage so there's a chance you are getting helpless damage because an ability score has been reduced to zero when using those weapons rather than because of the paralysis.

[Rasputin]

I was concerned that this would be the answer I received. I debated fiercely for a long time even mentioning it in case they decided to nerf the other two weapons.

I know for a fact that it is not a case of stat damage causing the helpless state. When the enemy has received enough stat damage to render them helpless, they get a "dizzy" animation. The 30% bonus damage starts as soon as the green paralysis rings appear.

Almost makes me want to delete the thread. Almost.

[CThruTheEgo]

Yep, paralysis from weapons is not supposed to induce helplessness. Paralysis from ghoul touch will induce the helpless state, however. It wouldn't surprise me if the paralysis from Widowblight and Blade of the High Priestess were coded differently than paralysis on other weapons because Turbine. But the paralysis from Epic Envenomed Blade not inducing helplessness is WAI.

[Saekee]

I was concerned that this would be the answer I received. I debated fiercely for a long time even mentioning it in case they decided to nerf the other two weapons.

I know for a fact that it is not a case of stat damage causing the helpless state. When the enemy has received enough stat damage to render them helpless, they get a "dizzy" animation. The 30% bonus damage starts as soon as the green paralysis rings appear.

Almost makes me want to delete the thread. Almost.

Hi Rasputin, would you be willing to test this again but using a different assessment than the visual cue of the green paralysis? I forget the term, but if you click on the 'Z' key you can see what effects are active on a mob. ( I wonder, though, if the stat drain effect ever appears there or even the paralysis, for that matter...)

Mob saves in epics are very high. So it is possible that you have drained their will save (via the bewildering effect) so low that they then fail the paralysis save. By then, their stats quicky also go to 0 so you also get helpless damage. The envenomed blade would not achieve this, but the other two would.

So I am agreeing with your observations, just reinterpreting them. Also, thanks for posting this as it affirms unique approaches to CC. (The Blade of the HP also drains CON, enabling the Slay Living effect to land better too.)

[Rasputin]

Sure, I'll give it a shot.

[Rasputin]

OK, I went into Gianthold and tried to play around with it. Blade of the High Priestess (BOHP). Singled out giants and tried to kill them very slowly, one hit at a time, aiming to compare pre-and-post paralysis damage.

Interestingly, you seem to be correct with this group of bad guys: onset of paralysis does not seem to correlate with increased damage. My base number was around 80, and this did not increase if they were paralyzed.

One time against a Fire Giant I managed to get him to begin reeling from having one of his stats drained to zero (presumably Wisdom), and the damage did increase greatly as a result. The helpless state was NOT reflected in his Z Examination.

Guess we can file this one under "solved". It seems to be the stat damage after all.

[Saekee]

OK, I went into Gianthold and tried to play around with it. Blade of the High Priestess (BOHP). Singled out giants and tried to kill them very slowly, one hit at a time, aiming to compare pre-and-post paralysis damage.

Interestingly, you seem to be correct with this group of bad guys: onset of paralysis does not seem to correlate with increased damage. My base number was around 80, and this did not increase if they were paralyzed.

One time against a Fire Giant I managed to get him to begin reeling from having one of his stats drained to zero (presumably Wisdom), and the damage did increase greatly as a result. The helpless state was NOT reflected in his Z Examination.

Guess we can file this one under "solved". It seems to be the stat damage after all.

thanks for testing it!

[TeacherSyn]

Yep, paralysis from weapons is not supposed to induce helplessness. Paralysis from ghoul touch will induce the helpless state, however. It wouldn't surprise me if the paralysis from Widowblight and Blade of the High Priestess were coded differently than paralysis on other weapons because Turbine. But the paralysis from Epic Envenomed Blade not inducing helplessness is WAI.

What's said above. Special paralysis effects such as Nerve Venom and the Ninja Spy dark finisher Freezing the Lifeblood create helplessness, but most weapon-based paralysis effects do not, so I confirm too that's WAI. Improved Paralysis is simply a higher-DC version and shouldn't cause helplessness, and the Paralyzing wiki page notes this.

I'm betting that what's being seen is the stunning effect caused by ability score damage, which both weapons possess (Wounding and Bewildering), which can create a helpless effect.