I still don't understand: Why Warlocks?

[Daleisme1]

Why does DDO even bother with Warlocks? Especially using the pacts, and not Invocations. To me, it is a big mistake. Warlocks are Any-Evil alignment. But I suppose, if they can restrict Paladins to Lawful Good, they can get away with whatever alignment changes for Warlock they wish.

I still believe: Why Pact Warlocks? Those are my absolute least favorite.

This below is a True Warlock.

http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/warlock-invocations

[PKMN12]

Why does DDO even bother with Warlocks? Especially using the pacts, and not Invocations. To me, it is a big mistake. Warlocks are Any-Evil alignment. But I suppose, if they can restrict Paladins to Lawful Good, they can get away with whatever alignment changes for Warlock they wish.

I still believe: Why Pact Warlocks? Those are my absolute least favorite.

This below is a True Warlock.

http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/warlock-invocations

4th and 5th edition got rid of the non-pact warlock AND made the Warlock a core class. WOW also probably helped a bit since their warlocks have a similar flavor.

there is basically no such thing as a non-pact warlock anymore, it was too close to a sorcerer or favored soul (or invoker/oracle if you want to get into pathfinder and 4th edition) anyway, as its description LITERALLY says it got its power from a bloodline.

Also, having only evil as an alignment was a idiotic decision in the first place. dark powers DOES NOT equal bad people.

as for invocations.....they were essentially a list of arcane spells, it even mentions many of them are almost no different to their regular spell equivalents. they even had arcane spell failure like a normal arcane caster.

[Memnir]

They've been oft requested for years, and likely easier to implement then other options like Psionics.

Personally, I'd much rather have seen a new base-level, non-Iconic, race added... like Gnome or Kobold. But, c'est la vie. Warlocks might be more fun then I'm expecting them to be.

[PKMN12]

They've been oft requested for years, and likely easier to implement then other options like Psionics.

Personally, I'd much rather have seen a new base-level, non-Iconic, race added... like Gnome or Kobold. But, c'est la vie. Warlocks might be more fun then I'm expecting them to be.

Dragonborn (NOT sure how they would work) or Teifling would have been awesome............just saying.............

[Steve_Howe]

Dragonborn (NOT sure how they would work) or Teifling would have been awesome............just saying.............

Those are RACES. Warlock is a CLASS.

CLASSES are cheaper to design and implement because VERY LITTLE new artwork needs to be done for them. Races, however, require LOTS of new art and animations to be done which requires a LOT more cash to do.

[PKMN12]

Those are RACES. Warlock is a CLASS.

CLASSES are cheaper to design and implement because VERY LITTLE new artwork needs to be done for them. Races, however, require LOTS of new art and animations to be done which requires a LOT more cash to do.

yeah.......please read the comment i had quoted. He mentioned he would have liked new races as well/instead....i was simply pointing out other cool races...........

[phillymiket]

They've been oft requested for years, and likely easier to implement then other options like Psionics.

Personally, I'd much rather have seen a new base-level, non-Iconic, race added... like Gnome or Kobold. But, c'est la vie. Warlocks might be more fun then I'm expecting them to be.

If people had wanted gnomes they should have said something!

I'm joking of course. We have been asking for many things over the years but since forever gnomes have always been at the top of the lists.

I also don't quite understand why warlocks, why shadar-kai, why purple dragon knights and not the thing that has a 100% chance of garnering cheers, hallelujahs and finallys.

But still, warlocks should be cool and I look forward to them.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Did you notice that those invocations are really weak?

[Uska]

Dragonborn (NOT sure how they would work) or Teifling would have been awesome............just saying.............

As much as I loath warlocks I hate dragonboring much much more it's the absolute last thing I would want see added to the game.

A class was a better choice for now as it is easier to do I,just wish it had been a different choice

[Steve_Howe]

A class was a better choice for now as it is easier to do I,just wish it had been a different choice

Which class or classes would you have preferred over Warlock?

[Uska]

Which class or classes would you have preferred over Warlock?

Anything even the NPC style classes but in all reality I would rather they finished and fixed the current classes

[richieelias27]

Those are RACES. Warlock is a CLASS.

CLASSES are cheaper to design and implement because VERY LITTLE new artwork needs to be done for them. Races, however, require LOTS of new art and animations to be done which requires a LOT more cash to do.

You'd think so, normally...

Of the 4 new races introduced (iconics):

Only one required a single new animation (chain attack).

None required new models outside of slightly changed heads and flair

Only 2 involved new textures.

So yeah....

They spent FAR more art effort on just a single monster introduced at the same time as Iconics than they did on all of the Iconic characters combined.

Honestly though I was only mildly disappointed with the above. I'm happy to have more toys.

Besides, if you want to go the "cheaper" route. The cost of time spent implementing and balancing an entire new class is probably much higher than a new race (which has a much smaller tree, and tends to share most of it with the rest of the races), art included.

[Steve_Howe]

You'd think so, normally...

Of the 4 new races introduced (iconics):

Only one required a single new animation (chain attack).

None required new models outside of slightly changed heads and flair

Only 2 involved new textures.

So yeah....

Tieflings (with tails, which is what Severiln has mentioned in other posts) would DEFINITELY require a new model with animations.

Pretty sure Dragonborn would also have required some new animations unless you just wanted to re-skin tha Half-Orc or PDK.

[FranOhmsford]

Tieflings (with tails, which is what Severiln has mentioned in other posts) would DEFINITELY require a new model with animations.

DDO Has Tieflings in game already and I've never seen a single tail on any of them!

Why would PC Tieflings need tails exactly?

This is DDO not Neverwinter!




See...No tail!

[richieelias27]

Tieflings (with tails, which is what Severiln has mentioned in other posts) would DEFINITELY require a new model with animations.

Pretty sure Dragonborn would also have required some new animations unless you just wanted to re-skin tha Half-Orc or PDK.

Human model/animations with Horn flair, possibly tail flair.

Zero new models/animations required.

PDK *is* a reskin of the Half-Orc. And yes, they would likely go with a reskinned Half-Orc.

Gnome - Probably halfing model with an even weirder head.

Mind you I'm not bashing turbine for being lazy with the character art assets. You gotta do what you gotta do (a new character model would also mean a new model for every single armor in the game), and I'm more concerned with having new things to play with. Just being honest.

Also, you get way more bang for your buck with a new class than a new race. Of which all pretty much play the same with some minor variation.

[Steve_Howe]

DDO Has Tieflings in game already and I've never seen a single tail on any of them!

Why would PC Tieflings need tails exactly?

This is DDO not Neverwinter!

See...No tail!

You'd need to ask Severlin that. He's the one who suggested Tiefling PCs would have tails.

[Steve_Howe]

Human model/animations with Horn flair, possibly tail flair.

Zero new models/animations required.

I absolutely GUARANTEE that if Tiefling was a PC race and if they had tails, the tails would not just hang there. They would swing in certain directions while the toon stood around, they'd swing even more ways during combat. Heck there would also have to be two new /Dance commands and they would certainly require more animations.

This isn't as easy as you think, my friend.

Agree with you on the more bang for the buck on new classes though.

[richieelias27]

I absolutely GUARANTEE that if Tiefling was a PC race and if they had tails, the tails would not just hang there. They would swing in certain directions while the toon stood around, they'd swing even more ways during combat. Heck there would also have to be two new /Dance commands and they would certainly require more animations.

This isn't as easy as you think, my friend.

Agree with you on the more bang for the buck on new classes though.

As a modeler and animator myself, I can tell you it isn't all that complex at all (depending on the method). Likely they would just use a very simple animation for running/swinging. If that looked too awkward and bad (probably would), they would likely opt for no tail at all. Making entirely new animations (Anything beyond simple movements, interacting with their own tail for instance) for a reused model just for a tail would be more work than it would be worth. In my opinion.

Now if they wanted to do another paid expansion with a high amount of new content and an entirely new character model (or more than one actually, with multiple new races and 1 or 2 classes that mesh well with said races), now that would be worth the effort involved. Not likely to happen though.

[Steve_Howe]

As a modeler and animator myself, I can tell you it isn't all that complex at all (depending on the method). Likely they would just use a very simple animation for running/swinging. If that looked too awkward and bad (probably would), they would likely opt for no tail at all. Making entirely new animations (and make them look good anyway) for a reused model just for a tail would be more work than it would be worth. In my opinion.

Agreed. Putting a tail on Tieflings would be a mistake.

[Daleisme1]

4th and 5th edition got rid of the non-pact warlock AND made the Warlock a core class. WOW also probably helped a bit since their warlocks have a similar flavor.

there is basically no such thing as a non-pact warlock anymore, it was too close to a sorcerer or favored soul (or invoker/oracle if you want to get into pathfinder and 4th edition) anyway, as its description LITERALLY says it got its power from a bloodline.

Also, having only evil as an alignment was a idiotic decision in the first place. dark powers DOES NOT equal bad people.

as for invocations.....they were essentially a list of arcane spells, it even mentions many of them are almost no different to their regular spell equivalents. they even had arcane spell failure like a normal arcane caster.

DDO is 3.5 Edition, and in my opinion a superior edition. This isn't about higher editions. DDO is 3.5 Edition. Also, 3.5 Edition Warlock is required Any-Evil Alignment. Not my opinion, that is how they were designed. Invocations are NOT Arcane spells. Did you even look at the link I placed? They are much different. They can be used almost endlessly.