Elf Cleric AA build viable at all?

[PKMN12]

So, i would like to create an Elf (maybe half-elf, would prefer elf though) cleric archer using the Silver Flame. Here is the build i have in mind, but not sure if it is viable or not. IF the idea is workable even, not too sure about feats, feat order or specific enhancments. I also want to be able to heal, at least to some extent.

Cleric AA
Cleric 20
Lawful Good Elf


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 10. . . .4: WIS
Dexterity . . . 17. . . .8: WIS
Constitution. . 12. . . 12: WIS
Intelligence. . 10. . . 16: WIS
Wisdom. . . . . 16. . . 20: WIS
Charisma. . . . 10. . . 24: WIS
. . . . . . . . . . . . 28: WIS

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . 8. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2


Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 Deity. : Follower of: Silver Flame
.3. . . . : Zen Archery
.6. . . . : Rapid Shot
.6 Deity. : Silver Flame Exorcism
.9. . . . : Manyshot
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
15. . . . : Weapon Focus: Ranged
18. . . . : Bow Strength
21 Epic . : Extend Spell
24 Epic . : Quicken Spell
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Positive
27 Epic . : Heighten spell
28 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Light


Enhancements (80 AP)

Elf (26 AP)

• Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity, Elven Accuracy II, Elven Dexterity II, Elven Accuracy III
  
  1. Aerenal Weapon Training
  2. Aerenal Weapon Training, Arcanum III
  3. Aerenal Weapon Training, Arcane Archer
  4. Aerenal Weapon Training, Skill

Elf-Arcane Archer (41 AP)

• Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Master of Imbuement
  
  1. Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Shock Arrows
  2. Force Arrows III, Flaming Arrows, Attack Boost III
  3. Soul Magic, Frost Arrows, Wisdom
  4. Corrosive Arrows, Wisdom
  5. Moonbow, Improved Elemental Arrows, Runebow

Radiant Servant (13 AP)

• Healing Domain, Pacifism
  
  1. Divine Cleansing III, Altruism III
  2. <none>
  3. Unyielding Sovereignty

Thanks for any help

[unbongwah]

It's possible to make AA clerics viable, but it's important to be clear about what your build goals are: viable at what?

• You went WIS-based, but you don't invest in many metamagics, didn't take Spellcraft, and put nothing at all into Divine Disciple; which means as a DC caster, you'll be subpar.
• The flip side to that is you mostly invest in ranged feats and archery enhancements, yet put your lvl-ups into WIS, which outside of monkchers does nothing to boost your ranged DPS.
• Unless you're taking one of the capstones, there's very little incentive to staying pure cleric, particularly given the feat shortage.
• Silver Flame is less than optimal, even on an archer, unless you plan to invest in Warpriest for more DPS.

I would consider cleric 18 / rgr 2 focused on heals + ranged DPS. Pure healers have fallen out of vogue as they're not needed most of the time, but people usually don't complain about bringing one along, either.

[PKMN12]

It's possible to make AA clerics viable, but it's important to be clear about what your build goals are: viable at what?

• You went WIS-based, but you don't invest in many metamagics, didn't take Spellcraft, and put nothing at all into Divine Disciple; which means as a DC caster, you'll be subpar.
• The flip side to that is you mostly invest in ranged feats and archery enhancements, yet put your lvl-ups into WIS, which outside of monkchers does nothing to boost your ranged DPS.
• Unless you're taking one of the capstones, there's very little incentive to staying pure cleric, particularly given the feat shortage.
• Silver Flame is less than optimal, even on an archer, unless you plan to invest in Warpriest for more DPS.

I would consider cleric 18 / rgr 2 focused on heals + ranged DPS. Pure healers have fallen out of vogue as they're not needed most of the time, but people usually don't complain about bringing one along, either.

well, for the wis-based thing, i was thinking of using Zen archery combined with buffs to Str to do damage and hit, hoping that it would work like it does in the tabletop game, guessing it does not. Do not really care about the magical DPS part, want mostly to do Damage with a bow and use the cleric spells for the many buffs and heals

Would you recomend taking Warpriest as my main tree? if so, would i still take the 2 ranger levels? Want the Silver Flame stuff mostly for character idea so if i can make the character better while still using that, it would be nice

For my feats, are those okay for the most part? and are my starting okay?

sorry for all the questions, never really played something like this before in ddo.

thanks for the help.

[Enoach]

Thinking about this...

Zen Archery is a good choice to blend with a Cleric. However, I would go with only enough Dexterity so that you qualify for the Manyshot (17 Dex) by Level 9, so if you have +2 or better for Dex Tome you can start at 15. This way you can focus on Wisdom.

Next might I suggest Heighten over the Spell Focus Conjuration. While it will cost a few more SP per cast it can raise the DC by more than 1, in some cases as much as 8 DC (Level 1 Spell) This will help keep you on par.

Now you can trade off the cleric capstone with two Monk Splash - It will add Evasion and 2 Monk Feats (Zen Archery is a Feat on this list) as well as Water Stance adding +2 Wisdom. This could also allow you to get Precise Shot which can help you hit what you aim for in a crowd as well as add a little DPS.

[PKMN12]

Thinking about this...

Zen Archery is a good choice to blend with a Cleric. However, I would go with only enough Dexterity so that you qualify for the Manyshot (17 Dex) by Level 9, so if you have +2 or better for Dex Tome you can start at 15. This way you can focus on Wisdom.

Next might I suggest Heighten over the Spell Focus Conjuration. While it will cost a few more SP per cast it can raise the DC by more than 1, in some cases as much as 8 DC (Level 1 Spell) This will help keep you on par.

Now you can trade off the cleric capstone with two Monk Splash - It will add Evasion and 2 Monk Feats (Zen Archery is a Feat on this list) as well as Water Stance adding +2 Wisdom. This could also allow you to get Precise Shot which can help you hit what you aim for in a crowd as well as add a little DPS.

had no idea what to use for that lasts slot, so just put spell focus for lack of anything else to think of at that moment.

thanks, but not only do i not have monk, i REALLY do not want anyting to do with it at this point either. That class has become SO ubiquitous it seems that it has gotten on my nerve a little. At least when it was Paladin or rogue splash everything, it was not as major of an effect on the playstyle and did not add several abilities that did not fit anything but monks.

[unbongwah]

Alternate build focused on ranged DPS + heals, using only +2 DEX tome which can be acquired thru Favor:

Radiant Archer
18/2 Cleric/Ranger
True Neutral Elf


Level Order

1. Ranger          6. Cleric         11. Cleric         16. Cleric
2. Cleric          7. Cleric         12. Cleric         17. Cleric
3. Cleric          8. Cleric         13. Cleric         18. Cleric
4. Cleric          9. Ranger         14. Cleric         19. Cleric
5. Cleric         10. Cleric         15. Cleric         20. Cleric


Stats
               28pt     32pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength        14       16                4: STR
Dexterity       17       17       +2       8: STR
Constitution    12       12               12: STR
Intelligence     8        8               16: STR
Wisdom          10       10               20: STR
Charisma        14       14               24: STR
                                          28: STR

Feats

 1        : Point Blank Shot
 1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
 2 Deity  : Follower of: Silver Flame
 3        : Precise Shot
 6        : Precision
 7 Deity  : Silver Flame Exorcism
 9        : Manyshot
12        : Improved Critical: Ranged
15        : Improved Precise Shot
18        : Empower Healing Spell
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Quicken Spell
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic   : <filler>
28 Destiny: Elusive Target


Enhancements (80 AP)

Elf (14 AP)

Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity, Elven Accuracy II
Aerenal Weapon Training
Aerenal Weapon Training, Arcanum I
Arcane Archer

Elf-Arcane Archer (37 AP)

Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows
Conjure Arrows, Corrosive Arrows
Inferno Shot III, Shock Arrows
Terror Arrows III, Soul Magic, Flaming Arrows
Paralyzing Arrows III, Frost Arrows
Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Improved Elemental Arrows, Runebow

Warpriest (15 AP)

Smite Foe, Resilience of Battle, Sanctuary
Divine Might III, Righteous Weapons
Wall of Steel III, Righteous Weapons
Righteous Weapons

Radiant Servant (13 AP)

Healing Domain, Pacifism, Positive Energy Burst
Extra Turning II, Wand Mastery III, Altruism III
<none>
Unyielding Sovereignty

Deepwood Stalker (1 AP)

Far Shot

Pros of this build:

• Significantly higher ranged DPS than your original build: higher STR & CHA; adds Div Might, Righteous Weapons, Precision, Imp Prec Shot, Overwhelming Crit. [For even more ranged DPS, you can ditch RS entirely to put more into elf, WP, and/or DWS.]
• Slightly better healer: adds Emp Heal, DWS adds cheap Pos Spellpower.

Cons of this build:

• Still not much of a caster: even with rgr 2 splash, only room for a couple of metamagics. And I ditched WIS, so I can't even pretend this is a DPS caster.
• Ranged DPS is backloaded, so early lvls will feel gimp; then you'll get Manyshot and be like, "Why can't I use Manyshot all the time?!" [Answer: because Turbine hates non-monkcher archers, apparently. ]

I've also got a couple of cleric 13 / rgr 6 / ftr 1 builds, but they're not "real" casters, either; they're more like super-rangers with significantly better healing. Also see my Tempest Warpriest thread.

[PKMN12]

Alternate build focused on ranged DPS + heals, using only +2 DEX tome which can be acquired thru Favor:

Radiant Archer
18/2 Cleric/Ranger
True Neutral Elf


Level Order

1. Ranger          6. Cleric         11. Cleric         16. Cleric
2. Cleric          7. Cleric         12. Cleric         17. Cleric
3. Cleric          8. Cleric         13. Cleric         18. Cleric
4. Cleric          9. Ranger         14. Cleric         19. Cleric
5. Cleric         10. Cleric         15. Cleric         20. Cleric


Stats
               28pt     32pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength        14       16                4: STR
Dexterity       17       17       +2       8: STR
Constitution    12       12               12: STR
Intelligence     8        8               16: STR
Wisdom          10       10               20: STR
Charisma        14       14               24: STR
                                          28: STR

Feats

 1        : Point Blank Shot
 1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
 2 Deity  : Follower of: Silver Flame
 3        : Precise Shot
 6        : Precision
 7 Deity  : Silver Flame Exorcism
 9        : Manyshot
12        : Improved Critical: Ranged
15        : Improved Precise Shot
18        : Empower Healing Spell
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Quicken Spell
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic   : <filler>
28 Destiny: Elusive Target


Enhancements (80 AP)

Elf (14 AP)

Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity, Elven Accuracy II
Aerenal Weapon Training
Aerenal Weapon Training, Arcanum I
Arcane Archer

Elf-Arcane Archer (37 AP)

Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows
Conjure Arrows, Corrosive Arrows
Inferno Shot III, Shock Arrows
Terror Arrows III, Soul Magic, Flaming Arrows
Paralyzing Arrows III, Frost Arrows
Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Improved Elemental Arrows, Runebow

Warpriest (15 AP)

Smite Foe, Resilience of Battle, Sanctuary
Divine Might III, Righteous Weapons
Wall of Steel III, Righteous Weapons
Righteous Weapons

Radiant Servant (13 AP)

Healing Domain, Pacifism, Positive Energy Burst
Extra Turning II, Wand Mastery III, Altruism III
<none>
Unyielding Sovereignty

Deepwood Stalker (1 AP)

Far Shot

Pros of this build:

• Significantly higher ranged DPS than your original build: higher STR & CHA; adds Div Might, Righteous Weapons, Precision, Imp Prec Shot, Overwhelming Crit. [For even more ranged DPS, you can ditch RS entirely to put more into elf, WP, and/or DWS.]
• Slightly better healer: adds Emp Heal, DWS adds cheap Pos Spellpower.

Cons of this build:

• Still not much of a caster: even with rgr 2 splash, only room for a couple of metamagics. And I ditched WIS, so I can't even pretend this is a DPS caster.
• Ranged DPS is backloaded, so early lvls will feel gimp; then you'll get Manyshot and be like, "Why can't I use Manyshot all the time?!" [Answer: because Turbine hates non-monkcher archers, apparently. ]

I've also got a couple of cleric 13 / rgr 6 / ftr 1 builds, but they're not "real" casters, either; they're more like super-rangers with significantly better healing. Also see my Tempest Warpriest thread.

thanks for the help, i will try this. I do not really care that much about being a DPS caster with this character.

[Alfhild]

thanks for the help, i will try this. I do not really care that much about being a DPS caster with this character.

If not concerned about being a DPS caster. why not just do 6 Ranger/6 Monk/8 Cleric? The monk and rangers levels grant what is essentially all of the monkcher DPS while the 8 Cleric levels grant self healing and self buffs as well as Divine Might.

[voodoogroves]

The issue has always been how to actually heal, while shooting - the targetting is annoying.

[Kawai]

when Monchichi's first started, & i do mean originally...
we (had lots of tips & brainstorming sessions) built a 12/6/2.
& later variations w/ 14/6 & an 8/6/6
(personally liked the BB version best....)
all were good, & @ the time pretty awesome; but ended up changing for other past lives & different directions.

-so yea, more than likely still extremely "viable".

its really all a matter of what works 4u & which strengths u want.

[PKMN12]

If not concerned about being a DPS caster. why not just do 6 Ranger/6 Monk/8 Cleric? The monk and rangers levels grant what is essentially all of the monkcher DPS while the 8 Cleric levels grant self healing and self buffs as well as Divine Might.

It it annoying having all the monk like abilities on something that is nothing like a monk.

Also, not a huge fan of mass multi-classing, part of the reason i do not like 3.5 that much actually.

[unbongwah]

It it annoying having all the monk like abilities on something that is nothing like a monk.

You might want to check out the Zen Archer thread.

Also, not a huge fan of mass multi-classing, part of the reason i do not like 3.5 that much actually.

Well, I suppose the good news is the last few Enhancement revamps have really strengthened pure builds, to the point where a lot of folks complain it's no longer worthwhile to splash on, say, a barb or pally. [Rogs take a bigger DPS hit from splashing than before, too, but they're still hella squishy; so MCing to boost survivability is a reasonable tradeoff, IMHO. Whereas with barbs and to a lesser extent pallies, most of the time your DPS and your survivability are better if you stay pure.] So hopefully they'll turn their attention to casters at some point.