Warlock Enhancements: Souleater

[HastyPudding]

I'm liking this tree, although not quite as much as the tainted scholar or enlightened spirit. It looks like a good tree if you're multiclassing or as a secondary tree for tainted scholar. A few questions and comments, though:

- This tree seems rather heavily dependent on having enemies stay alive to work off your consume and strickened abilities (ironic, in a tree focused on instant death spells). I don't think most enemies stay alive long enough to warrant their full usefulness, unless you intend them to work on red and purple monsters, as well. For example, you use consume on an enemy, increasing your movement speed and debuffing the target when you attack it (probably kiting it around). The vast majority of trash mobs are going to die rather quickly with this sort of situation, and they die rather quickly, regardless. I like these abilities because they play on the warlock's unrivaled debuffing capabilities (like in PnP), but their usefulness seems very short-lived. It also seems like a ton of micromanagement and keeping track of what mobs are affected by what debuffs. Perhaps an 'aura' around said mobs, like you see on sickened or diseased players?

- You said the damage from consume and stricken scales with sellpower. What type is used?

- Just to clarify: eldritch projection is a blast SHAPE and would be exclusive, just like eldritch blast/chain/aura/shadow and not an activated attack?

- What is the range on 'Steal Lifeforce'? When you say it's affected by spellpower, does that mean either positive or negative, depending on the type you have chosen? Universal spellpower? Force/impulse spellpower?

- I think somebody said so above, but it needs mentioning, again: be careful that Dark Feeding has the same cooldown as the duration of the buff to prevent overlapping issues and possible exploits. Also, 1d8+2 seems pretty strong for a tier three ability that only costs 2 AP. I'd scale it back to a straight up bonus, like always being +6 constitution or +6 intelligence, etc.

- I would have liked to see the iconic 'Devour Magic' invocation warlocks get in PnP in this tree, maybe as a single target ranged magical attack. Warlock was pretty much the tops when it came to dispelling enemy buffs. Perhaps a 'renamed' mordenkainen's disjunction SLA in tier 4 or 5 with a balanced cooldown to match. If it works, you can maybe gain 20/30/40 temporary HP. It fits perfectly in the souleater's theme.

[Severlin]

How will the DC of the FOD be determined?

Same as the level 7 wiz/sor spell.

Sev~

[Severlin]

- This tree seems rather heavily dependent on having enemies stay alive to work off your consume and strickened abilities (ironic, in a tree focused on instant death spells). I don't think most enemies stay alive long enough to warrant their full usefulness, unless you intend them to work on red and purple monsters, as well. For example, you use consume on an enemy, increasing your movement speed and debuffing the target when you attack it (probably kiting it around). The vast majority of trash mobs are going to die rather quickly with this sort of situation, and they die rather quickly, regardless. I like these abilities because they play on the warlock's unrivaled debuffing capabilities (like in PnP), but their usefulness seems very short-lived. It also seems like a ton of micromanagement and keeping track of what mobs are affected by what debuffs. Perhaps an 'aura' around said mobs, like you see on sickened or diseased players?

The abilities of the tree you are focused on are designed for killing bosses. Against trash you use two cones (or weapons) and just use death effects on problematic enemies.

- You said the damage from consume and stricken scales with sellpower. What type is used?

Universal.

- Just to clarify: eldritch projection is a blast SHAPE and would be exclusive, just like eldritch blast/chain/aura/shadow and not an activated attack?

Correct.

- What is the range on 'Steal Lifeforce'? When you say it's affected by spellpower, does that mean either positive or negative, depending on the type you have chosen? Universal spellpower? Force/impulse spellpower?

Standard spell range.
Universal spell power for the damage, although positive and negative spellpower should affect the heal.

- I think somebody said so above, but it needs mentioning, again: be careful that Dark Feeding has the same cooldown as the duration of the buff to prevent overlapping issues and possible exploits. Also, 1d8+2 seems pretty strong for a tier three ability that only costs 2 AP. I'd scale it back to a straight up bonus, like always being +6 constitution or +6 intelligence, etc.

It will likely end up with the a cooldown and duration that match.

- I would have liked to see the iconic 'Devour Magic' invocation warlocks get in PnP in this tree, maybe as a single target ranged magical attack. Warlock was pretty much the tops when it came to dispelling enemy buffs. Perhaps a 'renamed' mordenkainen's disjunction SLA in tier 4 or 5 with a balanced cooldown to match. If it works, you can maybe gain 20/30/40 temporary HP. It fits perfectly in the souleater's theme.

Player feedback on the usefulness of dispel effects has not been stellar.

(I know what you are thinking... sadly we don't have the time and resources atm to revamp the dispel system just to use a dispel in warlock.)

Sev~

[HatsuharuZ]

Instead of +1 damage per core, how about +1 profane enhancement bonus to equipped main-hand weapon? This would give a little more spell power if the weapon is a spell casting implement, and also give some additional accuracy for weapons. Considering the warlocks' need for charisma, to-hit bonuses of some kind will be a necessity for melee builds.

In the past, I and other players have said that to-hit is not particularly important, but we tend to be well-geared and have stat tomes. Not all warlocks, especially new players, will have these advantages.

[maddong]

I like how the spell power benefits are twice the mp/rp.... Consider this for Harper as well. I tried to focus a sorcerer on Harper for more general spell power and just switched him back to double savant when I found his top 3 element focuses (3rd was force) were inferior with Harper.

The capstone looks possibly better than everything everyone else gets (except bards) if you can get a 68 dc will save insta kill just by focusing on charisma (ignoring spell focus feats, enh, items, twists, etc).

[BananaHat]

Is Eldritch Wave faster than the standard cone casting? Is it basically for burst DPS? Is this essentially the cleave for cone attacks (being a low cooldown, small damage burst)?

Seems like Steal Lifeforce might be a little weak with a 20 second cooldown, even if somehow it was able to heal you to full. I'd be in favor of having the extra 1d10 on Consume from Supreme Hunger also being able to heal you or just having Supreme Hunger apply a vigor-like healing-over-time when you use Consume. Then, you'd have some smaller ticks incoming over time with a big boost from Steal Lifeforce as needed.

Alternatively, the Greater Hunger, Supreme Hunger, and Feed on Magic seem like prime places to possibly put chances for temporary hitpoints. You are feeding on life force, you should get a false life effect. Have Greater Hunger and Supreme Hunger allow for chances to gain temporary hitpoints when using Consume/Stricken and Feed on Magic could give temporary hitpoints similarly along with the temporary spellpoints.

As for Taint the Blood, what would be nice here would be a multi-selector for an option called Taint the Mind where it is -1 to Will saves instead of Fort. That would allow for some nice synergy with builds focused more on enchantment and sync nicely with the core capstone at the expense of syncing with standard death effects. Maybe even Taint the Body for a similar effect with Reflex saves. Then each pact could have a debuff associated with their pact damage save but obviously you have to choose which save you are targeting.

Don't get me wrong, so far this is my favorite of the trees and I'll likely try playing a Soul Eater prime/Tainted Scholar secondary Warlock. I fear I may not have enough action points to get everything I want in Soul Eater while still trying to grab useful things from Tainted Scholar, which is a fantastic problem to have.

[redoubt]

Player feedback on the usefulness of dispel effects has not been stellar.

(I know what you are thinking... sadly we don't have the time and resources atm to revamp the dispel system just to use a dispel in warlock.)

Sev~

Why is this difficult?

Every one of the dispel type spells uses DC11+ spell's caster level. This is why it doesn't work in DDO. CR (thus caster level) is roughly double the quest level on elite (up to 2.5ish times the quest level.) Use the quest level instead and allow epic levels to override the limiters and then we will have a chance to dispel their effects.

Example:
Level 30 quest, level 28 caster (20 wiz/8epic).
1d20 +20 vs 11 + 60. this is 40 max on the player side and 71 minimum on the mob side. It is impossible. Now adjust it.
1d20 + 28 vs 11 + 30. This is now 48 max on player side and 41 minimum on the mob side. It is now possible, but only at 35% chance.

I'd say use the same coming back at us, but at least there are maximum caster levels or are the mobs not playing by the rules there?

Or someone please explain how mob CR/CL works if I have that incorrect.

Thank you.

Dispel:
Removes ongoing spells that have been cast on a target, on a successful caster level check 1d20+caster level (Maximum caster level 10.) of DC 11+spell's caster level. This check is made per spell, for every ongoing spell on a target.

Greater Dispel:
Removes ongoing spell effects that are on a target. You must make a caster level check of 1d20+your caster level (Maximum caster level 20.) of DC 11+spell's caster level to remove an effect.

Break enchantment:
This spell frees victims from harmful enchantments, transmutations, and curses. Break enchantment can reverse even an instantaneous effect. For each such effect, you make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level, maximum +15) against a DC of 11 + caster level of the effect. Success means that the creature is free of the spell, curse, or effect.

Disjunction:
A powerful force disrupts magical effects on the target, removing ongoing spells that have been cast on a target. You must make a caster level check of 1d20+your caster level (No maximum) versus 11+the spell's caster level to remove a spell effect, and your target must make a Will save for each equipped item or all magical properties on them are temporarily disabled for 2 minutes.

[Silverleafeon]

A lot to read all at once, hope to read thru and post here in a few days.

[FlaviusMaximus]

A lot to read all at once, hope to read thru and post here in a few days.

K, thanks.

[Failedlegend]

As was confirmed for me in another thread you cannot use you equipped weapons whe using eldritch h blast so why does this tree have a bunch melee and ranged stuff...maybe add an "Eldritch Weapon" to Tier 5 which shapes your EB around your weapon (or projectile) of your choice. (Obviously exclusive to other shapes)

[janave]

1) Capstone:

The DC on it is probably too much:

A new character with almost no investment, just arriving to cap will have EE ready DCs, thats without utilizing any of the debuffs!.

Very minimal CHA:
18 Starting
+5 levelups
+4 capstone
+6 item
+1 from tree
*********** 34 // +12DC

Base 18 + Wlock 20 + 12 = 50DC, at level 20 that kills almost everything thats not immune.

A veteran character will have significantly higher DCs, especially if Spell Focus effects also stack up.

Sum: I would personally drop the base DC to 14, and add a bit of cooldown. ~/15->18s. (in contrast PWK is on a 3minute cooldown for a Sorc, with less DCs and it has to pass SR)

Same thing i also noted on other wlock trees, the +2 CHA in capstone is enough, it is also in-line with what the other classes get. Passives just promote pushforward bruteforce playing, vs cleverly applied tactics. Why CC and Debuff when you dont need to ?

2) FoD SLA: I find the cooldown too short, 18-24 seconds is where i find it more balanced.

3) Dark feeding seems very powerful for a T3 ability.

4) Steal life force: i dont think the healing needs to be equal with the damage done, 25-30% of that is plenty to stay alive (for a mostly ranged guy anyway) with little investment, or is this an melee range clicky?

5) Feed on Magic: (2 AP)

That is a lot of spell points, if people use it with aoe hits. I guess it would work with aoes? +20 Temp Sp, per 9 seconds is also plenty, and really easy to keep it up if it works on a pack of mobs.

6) Compared to the other 2 trees, this one seems the least party friendly, or the most solo friendly, depending on your preferences.

[GeoffWatson]

Universal.


Universal spell power for the damage,

Sev~

Do you mean that only Potency items (and enhancements that boost Universal SP) count for spell power, or do you mean Impulse (which currently boosts untyped damage)?

Geoff

[Jetrule]

As was confirmed for me in another thread you cannot use you equipped weapons whe using eldritch h blast so why does this tree have a bunch melee and ranged stuff...maybe add an "Eldritch Weapon" to Tier 5 which shapes your EB around your weapon (or projectile) of your choice. (Obviously exclusive to other shapes)

I only see the +1 damage for weapons per core level. Seems like it will be a bit of help for using the blast aura from Enlightened spirit. Or switching to weapon attack if something is immune to your force/element. Doesn't it seem to you and others asking for a weapon shape blast that it would massively outperform the other blast options? You can melee attack so much faster have double strike/shot, cleaves and weapon style fighting feats, and get strength or other stat bonuses to damage, stack up crit multipliers and crit range... To me it would make any other E.B. shape or any other weapon obsolete.

[Lanadazia]

Universal spell power for the damage, although positive and negative spellpower should affect the heal.

consume is also universal spellpower. i don't get that, caster warlocks will be quite inefficent dps-wise, cause you only get universal spell power via implement bonuses from weapons and spellcraft ?
compared to the combustion/impulse etc weapons this seems to be a major disadvantage. or am i not seeing something?

[Augon]

Same as the level 7 wiz/sor spell.

Sev~

Interesting.

So would that mean it would be cast as a 7th lvl spell, even though Warlocks can only cast up to 6th lvl spells?
Would it be cast as a lvl 7 spell regardless of how many spell levels the warlock was able to cast at the time? (At 12th lvl, when a Warlock would get this enhancement, even as pure he would only be able to cast lvl 4 spells)

If both of the above are correct (and I understand the DC formula correctly), then a Fighter 7 / Warlock 5 with an CHA of 28 could cast FOD with a DC of 10 + 7 + 14 = 31

Pop in a focus item and feat (if available to warlocks) and that's a pretty nice DC for a character whose primary class is fighter. Ironically, he would get FOD before a pure wizard, Sorc, or Druid.

Personally, I'm not against this idea, i'm just trying to clarify.

[Failedlegend]

consume is also universal spellpower. i don't get that, caster warlocks will be quite inefficent dps-wise, cause you only get universal spell power via implement bonuses from weapons and spellcraft ?
compared to the combustion/impulse etc weapons this seems to be a major disadvantage. or am i not seeing something?

Unless the wiki is wrong (entirely possible) Spellcraft Adds 1 point of Spell Power per point of skill with following damage types: Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, Force and Light.

That doesn't include Universal Spell Power, In fact none of the skills boost USP...personally I think that feature should be added to UMD, as a skill it's lost alot of it's lustre and since Warlocks are great UMDers and they have SO MANY elements to boost this would really help them (even if ONLY Warlocks can gain USP from UMD)

Doesn't it seem to you and others asking for a weapon shape blast that it would massively outperform the other blast options? You can melee attack so much faster have double strike/shot, cleaves and weapon style fighting feats, and get strength or other stat bonuses to damage, stack up crit multipliers and crit range... To me it would make any other E.B. shape or any other weapon obsolete.

1. Were (well I'm not at least) not asking it to proc on every hit just like every other shape it would have its own proc time and spellpower effectiveness and it's an "Auto-attack" it definitely wouldn't proc on cleaves or DS.

2. You can already use Melee attacks with the "Aura" EB shape

Personally I'd like to see a option that works with ranged weapons, seriously I want it so I can make a Warlock/Arty, that's not exactly a power build I just think it would be cool. (I like the idea of a Cannith Researcher that is willing to do anything for knowledge including making a pact with a less than "Good" patron like Xoriat)

That said I can't think of a reason why "Eldritch Shape: Weapon" would only work with ranged weapons so may as well include melee weapons.

Oh and here's just some of the abilities that affect melee and ranged attacks in Soul Eater

Inhuman Deadliness: You gain +1 damage with melee and ranged attacks for each core ability you take in this tree.

No Worse Fate: Your melee and ranged attacks also give the target the Shaken effect.

Taint the Blood: (2 AP) Your Melee and Ranged attacks reduce the Fortitude saving throw of the target by -1. The effect stacks up to 4 times.

Hungry for Destruction: (1/1/1 AP) You gain +1/+2/+3 Melee Power and Ranged Power.

Taint the Aura: (2 AP) Against targets marked by your Consume attack: Your melee & ranged attacks reduce the Spell Resistance, PRR and MRR of the target by -2 for 10 seconds. The effect stacks up to 5 times.

Strickened Soul: (1 AP) Against targets marked by your Stricken attack: Your Melee and Ranged attacks reduce the target's Melee Power, Ranged Power and Spellpower by 10 + 1/2 Warlock level for 10 seconds.

Greater Hunger: (2 AP) Your Consume damage over time is increased by 1d10. Your Stricken damage is increased by 3d6. Your melee & ranged attacks do 2d6 untyped damage when striking an opponent marked by your Consume attack.

Strickened Form: (2 AP) Against targets marked by your Stricken attack: Your melee & ranged attacks cause 1 Vulnerability for 10 seconds. (Vulnerability: You take 1% more damage for 3 seconds. This effect stacks up to 20 times, and loses one stack on expiration.).

Feed on Magic: (2 AP) When you strike an opponent with your melee attacks & ranged attacks there is a chance equal to half Warlock level for you to gain 30 temporary spell points. This can occur no more than once per 6 seconds.

Note: Yes I know most of these abilities also affect your EB but that's not really the point.

[HatsuharuZ]

Crazy idea: Make the Blindness SLA an "Eldritch Essence" or an eldritch blast attack.

[HastyPudding]

Do you mean that only Potency items (and enhancements that boost Universal SP) count for spell power, or do you mean Impulse (which currently boosts untyped damage)?

Geoff

consume is also universal spellpower. i don't get that, caster warlocks will be quite inefficent dps-wise, cause you only get universal spell power via implement bonuses from weapons and spellcraft ?
compared to the combustion/impulse etc weapons this seems to be a major disadvantage. or am i not seeing something?

From what I'm seeing, it might be more beneficial for warlocks to obtain and use actual potency items -- along with an impulse/kinetic lore item -- rather than a straight up, say, combustion, corrosion, or nullification item. You also notice that a lot of the spellpower bonuses in the warlock trees are universal bonuses, not specific spellpower types.

This also correlates to the fact that, in PnP, while warlocks had nearly unlimited power, that power wasn't particularly...powerful. The warlock isn't a super spellcaster compared to, say, an air savant sorcerer spamming ball lightning, chain lightning, and lightning bolt in rapid succession. Nor should it be. I'm content that warlock isn't going to be top DPS, but that it comes paired with A LOT more utility and variety than your standard arcane nuker. Warlocks look to be more focused on sustained damage through eldritch blast, with debuffing and crowd control abilities for more menacing trash, than other offensive casters.

Crazy idea: Make the Blindness SLA an "Eldritch Essence" or an eldritch blast attack.

Why? No other essence is going to compete with penetrating blast. Few players are going to spend AP in something they would deem to be marginally situational. I think it works great as an SLA, because you can use it on specific targets and still blast away with your basic attacks.

[Severlin]

Crazy idea: Make the Blindness SLA an "Eldritch Essence" or an eldritch blast attack.

Having an effect that procs blindness randomly while throwing Eldritch Blasts is not really the effect we are looking for in this particular tree. Not only does it take away tactical decision making in favor of random procs, but it is also less useful for Souleater multi-classes that want to use weapons.

Sev~

[edrein]

Having an effect that procs blindness randomly while throwing Eldritch Blasts is not really the effect we are looking for in this particular tree. Not only does it take away tactical decision making in favor of random procs, but it is also less useful for Souleater multi-classes that want to use weapons.

Sev~

How about you make blindness on EB as a part of the capstone for Enlightened Spirit then? That's certainly a powerful level 20 ability that would help a melee ranged warlock greatly in combination with blur effects.